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Black Clover: Top & God Tiers CRT

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Pain_to12 said:
okay so you agreed he used anti magic?
so what is your argument?
Click to expand...
My argument is that Anti-Magic has a level of strength to it (that's the whole basis for Black Divider to begin with, making it stronger). Asta with it was strong enough to slice Zagred's heart, which tanked Conquering Eon.

What makes it hax in this case?
 
DragonGamerZ913 said:
My argument is that Anti-Magic has a level of strength to it (that's the whole basis for Black Divider to begin with, making it stronger). Asta with it was strong enough to slice Zagred's heart, which tanked Conquering Eon.

What makes it hax in this case?
Click to expand...
anti magic makes it a hax tho
literally the entire existence of anti magic is hax. so yes it was a hax.
 
I think it's both. It's been stated to amplify the magic of the host, but Asta is also capable of boosting himself with Liebe's power despite Liebe not having any magic.

Therefore, I think it may be both a physical and magic amp.
 
I think we can at least apply the 51TT and 102TT changes as it's not what the other user is debating
 
Zagred magic is still on another level from the cast as stated by everyone else and yami chart but maybe it doesnt correlate with the heart, who knows
reword it in a future crt, no problem its not necessary
DragonGamerZ913 said:
That needs to be reworded. What it was referring to is Vetto's ability to passively have a "forcefield" that stops weak magic attacks, and it's something done around the body. It's not relevant to Zagred's heart.
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as unbias i can go interpretations of what i got from the scans ch 206 to 210
pierced normal magic "you can't kill me" (not anti magic or yami dark magic) no effect, nero's first nod at asta anti magic perhaps?
ultimate Sword Magic (again not anti or dark magic) next scan his heart survives. "Hes regen ing regardless of the force of the spell and dmg he took"
Same scan Licht looks at asta.
Asta is inspired thn develops black divider "anti magic is weak but still had an effect"
Yami turn! dark magic is effective against devils if yami can dmg him enough asta can finish the rest.
asta anti magic amp, went from interacting with the spear, to now casually ignoring its hax
asta inspired yuno did something works on devils
black divider thrs a time limit
it hit different effect... not really i guess? but he seems pretty mad
also asta says hes sure he hit the heart but its somewhere else? he missed? did Zagred move it?have multiple hearts?create a new one idk? but he didnt hit it so the Disagreement goes on.
ok finally all the context lead to this scan Zagred avoided Asta attack to the heart
asta nearly at his limit
Zagred states yuno wind magic and asta anti magic cant cut his heart ? your interpretation required, whether its Zagred lying due to arrogance/hubris, asta nearing his limit shown last scan or maybe it cant cut his heart.
it landed your interpretation required again.. cant cut him zagred telling the truth? he used his magic to amp defense or stall? or needed my time for the cleave?
Asta passed the limit "what a shame" zagred
yami uses mana zone Dark cloaked dimension slash equinox looked like he took the most dmg from this puking "dark magic can interfere with the other world" zagred clearly effected.
physical dmg sealed "now its a question of whether he can draw out the anti magic power" nero?
yuno non-consensually messes him up with the wind that can effect devils stated earlier.
asta "MR. surpass my limits" its back nice. the end
im not pushing for either side, but i don't think its unreasonable to assume asta anti magic wasn't a factor.
also zagred tanked yuno and asta attack speed amped by wind, the light? and the magic that draws it to the devil.
and before asta gave the final blow to zagred he was pretty mess up by yami mana zone amped by the rose swing aswell as yuno wind cutting him up.
how it translates to ap idk.
b4 you correct anything give a plausible reason, no weird off comment nitpick/mental gymnastics hurdles plz.
 
Some things I don't really get, but I'd like to note that:
  • Zagred didn't tank Asta and Yuno's attack. He was hurt so much that he was trying to get Asta and Yuno to stop or be weakened with his Word Soul Magic.
  • Yuno being unable to pierce Zagred's heart is a testament to how Black Divider > Spirit of Zephyr, the latter has the same ability to kill devils that the former does.
  • Ultimate Sword Magic is Licht's spell, and Licht's magic can kill devils (it takes other magic, but Licht's is a part of it), so Zagred's heart taking the attack is a durability feat and not a matter of magic of the living world being unable to kill him.
  • The most likely thing about Asta and Yuno hitting Zagred (especially since they were screaming after they hit him) was that Asta needed to push through to reach Zagred's heart and his body hit its limit before he could do so.
 
Isn't Licth must be Scaling Above Zagred? Couldn't kill him doesn't mean Not tanking any damage, you know that. Its clear that Lict Over powering Zagred
 
DragonGamerZ913 said:
Some things I don't really get, but I'd like to note that:
  • Zagred didn't tank Asta and Yuno's attack. He was hurt so much that he was trying to get Asta and Yuno to stop or be weakened with his Word Soul Magic.
Click to expand...
makes sense aswell someone can watch the anime im not doing it
DragonGamerZ913 said:
  • Yuno being unable to pierce Zagred's heart is a testament to how Black Divider > Spirit of Zephyr, the latter has the same ability to kill devils that the former does.
Click to expand...
could SoZ harm devils in the same way like anti magic and yami dark, before or after this scan u mean? https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/Black-Clover/0208-011.png
DragonGamerZ913 said:
Ultimate Sword Magic is Licht's spell, and Licht's magic can kill devils (it takes other magic, but Licht's is a part of it), so Zagred's heart taking the attack is a durability feat and not a matter of magic of the living world being unable to kill him.
Click to expand...
can i get a scan stating that licht magic can kill/affect devils?
DragonGamerZ913 said:
The most likely thing about Asta and Yuno hitting Zagred (especially since they were screaming after they hit him) was that Asta needed to push through to reach Zagred's heart and his body hit its limit before he could do so.
Click to expand...
eh sure are they pushing it in? il watch the anime scene when i have time
 
WrongIdea21 said:
Isn't Licth must be Scaling Above Zagred? Couldn't kill him doesn't mean Not tanking any damage, you know that. Its clear that Lict Over powering Zagred
Click to expand...
Licht and Zagred are 102.85 teratons. Licht’s Ultimate Sword Magic is 320.73 teratons (via an additive process) and Zagred’s heart’s durability scales to that for taking it.
 
Loyd said:
makes sense aswell someone can watch the anime im not doing it

could SoZ harm devils in the same way like anti magic and yami dark, before or after this scan u mean? https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/Black-Clover/0208-011.png

can i get a scan stating that licht magic can kill/affect devils?

eh sure are they pushing it in? il watch the anime scene when i have time
Click to expand...
I’m on phone so it’s hard for me to get scans, but it’s after chapter 205. Zagred realizes that because Licht used Forbidden Magic to turn himself into a demon and because Lumiere took in Demon Licht’s magic, they had been affected by the underworld. This is why they could destroy Zagred’s spell from the underworld, which only Anti-Magic and Demon Light Magic could do at the time.

As for Spirit of Zephyr, Lumiere states that Yuno used his wind to condense Licht and Lumiere’s Magic into a sword that could combat the devil.
 
His heart can’t be damaged by attacks not from the underworld. However, since both Conquering Eon and Black Divider have underworld power, and it tanked the former while being sliced by the latter, Black Divider is stronger.
 
That means His Heart durability Are exactly same with his Body durability, but immune to magic outside the Underworld, Asta Shown Damaging Zagred Body and Doing same thing to His Heart.
 
That doesn’t mean that at all. How did you come to that conclusion? Licht and Lumiere are capable of damaging him, so that wouldn’t make any sense.

The two times Asta hit Zagred without hitting his heart with Black Divider, Zagred was greatly hurt and furious about getting hit.
 
from thr tussle its magic effect doused in the underworld isnt on the same level as asta anti magic or yami dark magic hax, luminere light was negged by the spear but asta before black divider could make contact with it, licht even hints asta being the only one who could do it.
 
Asta broke through the spear because he has Anti-Magic. Licht never really hints that either, it’s only suggested that Anti-Magic might be able to do it because of its ability to nullify Zagred’s magic, as shown by the fact that they think Anti-Magic can do it after Asta stops Zagred’s spear.
 
DragonGamerZ913 said:
That doesn’t mean that at all. How did you come to that conclusion? Licht and Lumiere are capable of damaging him, so that wouldn’t make any sense.

The two times Asta hit Zagred without hitting his heart with Black Divider, Zagred was greatly hurt and furious about getting hit.
Click to expand...

DragonGamerZ913 said:
His heart can’t be damaged by attacks not from the underworld
Click to expand...

You said this.

StrawHatArslan said:
I agree with DragonGamer.
Wrongidea indeed has the wrong idea, and so does Pain.
Click to expand...
Could you give the Right Idea?
 
Idk i think the unique traits of dark magic effective against devils and anti magic is different from licht magic dyed in the underworld at best they can harm his underworld slug things tht sick mana, but zagred doesnt seem to worry about those two at all.
Hypotheticaly If yami used dark magic slash and cut thru zagred heart would he scale to licht ulti sword aswell?
 
Loyd said:
Idk i think the unique traits of dark magic effective against devils and anti magic is different from licht magic dyed in the underworld at best they can harm his underworld slug things tht sick mana, but zagred doesnt seem to worry about those two at all.
Hypotheticaly If yami used dark magic slash and cut thru zagred heart would he scale to licht ulti sword aswell?
Click to expand...
If he were to use Dimension Slash, no because that attack ignores durability. If he does a regular attack and that cuts through, that’s just an anomaly.
 
WrongIdea21 said:
Could you give me the scan? , i Forgot about that.
Click to expand...
On my phone so I can’t but it’s chapter 206. Zagred thinks about how they’ve been affected by the underworld, allowing them to destroy his magic that comes from the underworld.
 
Does zagred confidently healing from licht ulti sword that obliterates him to the heart thn reviving stating it couldnt kill him
To yami landing dark slash on him making him puke and in pain mean anything?
or when he purposely dodged his heart against asta black divider
I stil think the traits are a difference tbh
 
Loyd said:
Does zagred confidently healing from licht ulti sword that obliterates him to the heart thn reviving stating it couldnt kill him
To yami landing dark slash on him making him puke and in pain mean anything?
or when he purposely dodged his heart against asta black divider
I stil think the traits are a difference tbh
Click to expand...
This is what it indicates:

He’s more worried about Black Divider hitting him compared to Conquering Eon hitting him, and the former is stronger than the latter. Yami’s slash that cut him in half means nothing scaling-wise because it ignores durability.
 
Its reasonable to assume anti magic aswell as everyone alludes to asta finishing him

During the final blow did yami slash cut his heart ?

He was definitly in alot more pain thn his previous dmg taken
 
Yami didn’t hit his heart. He sliced him down the middle while his heart was to the left.

Asta’s Anti-Magic being alluded to isn’t referring to it finishing Zagred. They allude to it when Asta stops Zagred’s spear, which heavily implies that they allude to its ability to nullify his magic.
 
Yea yami cutting him with dark magic did more dmg for sure
Following the theme of anti magic guy i think its hax played a part in destroying zagred heart not raw ap alone imo but add wat u deem reasonable i already agree
 
The only way Anti-Magic would be hax in this case would be if Zagred’s heart was made of magic, and we have too little evidence to assume that to be true.
 
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