Black clover speed problems with mftl calc and light speed statement

[Luci5678]

ls statement problem

My main problem with Yami's statement is that it presupposes that Yami can see things that are ls when there is no other evidence, one could say that it is photonic but it isn't because of its form and its obvious mass properties. (I can touch up on this topic more if asked questions)

mftl calc problem

This feat is an obvious outlier when compared to the other accepted calcs, things like the time skip and the strength increase doesn't justify a 400x or whatever increase in speed. We know that in black clover people have gotten supposed multipliers in magic but that it doesn't correlate to speed and mostly to ap or dc. This is pretty much a widely accepted thing on vsbw, using this we can then move onto that after the fact of asta and yuno training to save yami they are only slightly stronger and faster than a devil heart yami which was keeping up slighty with lucifero and since we already established that a mana increase doesn't mean that that specific person will be able to output said amount of more mana. We can take the first dante vs yami fight for example, dante clearly would have more mana than yami because he is possessed by luicfero and has endless reserves they are somewhat even in the fight, and this is because of mana control and output. After all this we come to asta and yuno barely being able to fight 85 percent dante with devil arm to being slightly faster than yami after power amps and new forms. So i think that with all of this the feat would have to be classified as an outlier even if they had more time to train that big of a jump just doesn't fit in narratively.

 

[Joshyyy_64]

Following, leaning to disagree

 

[CloverDragon03]

This is just argument from incredulity and not much else. Hard disagree

 

[Tatsumi504]

ls statement problem

My main problem with Yami's statement is that it presupposes that Yami can see things that are ls when there is no other evidence, one could say that it is photonic but it isn't because of its form and its obvious mass properties. (I can touch up on this topic more if asked questions)

This isn't as much as a problem with it as it's your personal opinion. Nothing suggests yami is much slower to the extent that he shouldn't be capable of perceiving it

mftl calc problem

This feat is an obvious outlier when compared to the other accepted calcs, things like the time skip and the strength increase doesn't justify a 400x or whatever increase in speed.

This is an argument from incredulity and isn't backed by any evidence. You having a problem with them being 400x faster does not mean they cannot be 400x faster, you would also need sufficient evidence to prove it's an outlier which this CRT is lacking. Disagree

 

[Saqphire]

Disagree FRA. Also Magic amping speed is already an established thing in the series

 

[karo_senpaii]

ls statement problem

My main problem with Yami's statement is that it presupposes that Yami can see things that are ls when there is no other evidence, one could say that it is photonic but it isn't because of its form and its obvious mass properties. (I can touch up on this topic more if asked questions)

mftl calc problem

This feat is an obvious outlier when compared to the other accepted calcs, things like the time skip and the strength increase doesn't justify a 400x or whatever increase in speed. We know that in black clover people have gotten supposed multipliers in magic but that it doesn't correlate to speed and mostly to ap or dc. This is pretty much a widely accepted thing on vsbw, using this we can then move onto that after the fact of asta and yuno training to save yami they are only slightly stronger and faster than a devil heart yami which was keeping up slighty with lucifero and since we already established that a mana increase doesn't mean that that specific person will be able to output said amount of more mana. We can take the first dante vs yami fight for example, dante clearly would have more mana than yami yet they are somewhat even in the fight, and this is because of mana control and output. After all this we come to asta and yuno barely being able to fight 85 percent dante with devil arm to being slightly faster than yami after power amps and new forms. So i think that with all of this the feat would have to be classified as an outlier even if they had more time to train that big of a jump just doesn't fit in narratively.

Extremely poor crt. An argument founded on incredulity will get you nowhere

I remember clover the key person in the upgrade meticulously went over why this feat is not an outlier.
Kindly go to the upgrade thread and actually read it.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

This is literally bro’s first message. Was an account really made for this?

 

[Worthless]

Clearly agrees. The articulate explanation of why Yami shouldn't have light-speed reactions, along with the meticulous detailing of why the calculation is biased, captivated my attention and certainly didn't come here just because I find it amusing how the person I recognize liked this post. Ignore the guys above me, they don't know what they are talking about.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Ignore the guys above me, they don't know what they are talking about.

Bro shut up for once PLEASE.

 

[Worthless]

You all have no argument against the OP

 

[CloverDragon03]

Clearly agrees. The articulate explanation of why Yami shouldn't have light-speed reactions, along with the meticulous detailing of why the calculation is biased, captivated my attention and certainly didn't come here just because I find it amusing how the person I recognize liked this post. Ignore the guys above me, they don't know what they are talking about.

“I’m the only one who knows what they’re talking about so ignore everyone else” is a crazy hill to die on

 

[Joshyyy_64]

You all have no argument against the OP

Clearly agrees. The articulate explanation of why Yami shouldn't have light-speed reactions, along with the meticulous detailing of why the calculation is biased, captivated my attention and certainly didn't come here just because I find it amusing how the person I recognize liked this post. Ignore the guys above me, they don't know what they are talking about.

Why does it have to be u
You didn't just agree so you could feel like the special one

 

[Joshyyy_64]

Back on topic, I disagree fra. Nice try though

 

[Worthless]

“I’m the only one who knows what they’re talking about so ignore everyone else” is a crazy hill to die on

 

[Worthless]

Why does it have to be u
You didn't just agree so you could feel like the special one

I'm just joking, obviously, it's just funny to think that the person I argued with probably thinks the OP is cooking.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Gay JJK profile pic
There's not much to say

 

[SunDaGamer]

ls statement problem

My main problem with Yami's statement is that it presupposes that Yami can see things that are ls when there is no other evidence, one could say that it is photonic but it isn't because of its form and its obvious mass properties. (I can touch up on this topic more if asked questions)

mftl calc problem

This feat is an obvious outlier when compared to the other accepted calcs, things like the time skip and the strength increase doesn't justify a 400x or whatever increase in speed. We know that in black clover people have gotten supposed multipliers in magic but that it doesn't correlate to speed and mostly to ap or dc. This is pretty much a widely accepted thing on vsbw, using this we can then move onto that after the fact of asta and yuno training to save yami they are only slightly stronger and faster than a devil heart yami which was keeping up slighty with lucifero and since we already established that a mana increase doesn't mean that that specific person will be able to output said amount of more mana. We can take the first dante vs yami fight for example, dante clearly would have more mana than yami yet they are somewhat even in the fight, and this is because of mana control and output. After all this we come to asta and yuno barely being able to fight 85 percent dante with devil arm to being slightly faster than yami after power amps and new forms. So i think that with all of this the feat would have to be classified as an outlier even if they had more time to train that big of a jump just doesn't fit in narratively.

Ray of Divine Punishment meets the standards for lightspeed (moving in a straight line, being stated to move at lightspeed, reflecting off of reflective surfaces) and the Light Magic movement spell has multiple statements saying it's lightspeed too. Mana and Ki sensing are apart of Yami's kit, he should have no issue detecting Light Magic with those so your first paragraph hasn't substantiated anything.
The second point about Yuno's MFTL calc being an outlier needes actual proof within the story of being an outlier, like Yuno being tagged by something far slower than light while on guard, rather than using calculations and saying the amps aren't big enough. Yuno's Accelerated Development is one of the most prominent parts of his powerset and he's clearly shown to have far surpassed the other high level fighters on the battlefield.

 

[Grand_Astartes]

Yeah disagree fra, Outlier is thrown around like a paper-mache rock lol

 

[Worthless]

The second point about Yuno's MFTL calc being an outlier needes actual proof within the story of being an outlier, like Yuno being tagged by something far slower than light while on guard, rather than using calculations and saying the amps aren't big enough

I can argue on his behalf as I'm not entirely against removing the MFTL one anyway, except for the Yami part. BC going from SOL to MFTL is inherently crazy, especially considering that the main reasoning behind it can be easily debunked by simply pointing out that Gauche's beam also shares the same feats as light magic, meeting the LS standard on this website. Yet, it isn't treated as SOL here (which I agree with). So, what makes those statue beams special and different from Gauche's beam when they're not even real light magic to begin with? Unless I skipped some chapters. I need some enlightenment from whoever, which I forget, who brings up this MFTL argument again.

 

[Joshyyy_64]

I'm just joking, obviously, it's just funny to think that the person I argued with probably thinks the OP is cooking.

 

[Luci5678]

This is just argument from incredulity and not much else. Hard disagree

Yet my claims have reasoning and yours doesnt

 

[Luci5678]

This isn't as much as a problem with it as it's your personal opinion. Nothing suggests yami is much slower to the extent that he shouldn't be capable of perceiving it

This is an argument from incredulity and isn't backed by any evidence. You having a problem with them being 400x faster does not mean they cannot be 400x faster, you would also need sufficient evidence to prove it's an outlier which this CRT is lacking.

This isn't as much as a problem with it as it's your personal opinion. Nothing suggests yami is much slower to the extent that he shouldn't be capable of perceiving it

This is an argument from incredulity and isn't backed by any evidence. You having a problem with them being 400x faster does not mean they cannot be 400x faster, you would also need sufficient evidence to prove it's an outlier which this CRT is lacking. Disagree

I dont think u quite understand what a presupposition is, there doesn't have to be any suggestions. Youre not really addressing what's been said.

and yes I quite literally explained how a 15 month time skip wouldn't justify a 400x increase. If youre going to argue dont just say shit

 

[SunDaGamer]

Yet my claims have reasoning and yours doesnt

Your claims conflate narrative with calculations

I dont think u quite understand what a presupposition is, there doesn't have to be any suggestions.

You might as well be arguing that a character blatantly dodging bullets shouldn't be used because there's nothing to presuppose they can see the bullet

yes I quite literally explained how a 15 month time skip wouldn't justify a 400x increase. If youre going to argue dont just say shit

This is a textbook example of an argument from incredulity, you need actual evidence within the story that would make Yuno being MFTL an outlier like Yuno getting consistently tagged by far slower attacks despite having the capacity to dodge them

 

[Swordsaint456]

“I’m the only one who knows what they’re talking about so ignore everyone else” is a crazy hill to die on

holup. let em cook!

 

[CloverDragon03]

Yet my claims have reasoning and yours doesnt

The thread I made for this upgrade is right here. You can see my reasoning.

Your whole “Yami can’t see light speed attacks” thing is a whole lot of nothing tbh. Rays of light are consistently able to be seen in the series. You also assert that the 15 month period only made them slightly stronger and faster, which is refuted by Yami being astounded by how much Yuno leveled up in that time.

So overall, your claims are actually quite baseless, whereas I believe mine have far more concrete reasoning

 

[Luci5678]

Your claims conflate narrative with calculations

You might as well be arguing that a character blatantly dodging bullets shouldn't be used because there's nothing to presuppose they can see the bullet

This is a textbook example of an argument from incredulity, you need actual evidence within the story that would make Yuno being MFTL an outlier like Yuno getting consistently tagged by far slower attacks despite having the capacity to dodge them

erm prove that please dont just say something

and guess what u would need in order to say that claim, that speed of the bullet and the type of human and whatever characters reaction speed

and no u dont need to show yuno getting tagged by slower things lmao i gave reasoning to justify why a 15 month time skip wouldnt justfiy a 400x increase by itself. it needs more evidence!!

 

[Luci5678]

The thread I made for this upgrade is right here. You can see my reasoning.

Your whole “Yami can’t see light speed attacks” thing is a whole lot of nothing tbh. Rays of light are consistently able to be seen in the series. You also assert that the 15 month period only made them slightly stronger and faster, which is refuted by Yami being astounded by how much Yuno leveled up in that time.

So overall, your claims are actually quite baseless, whereas I believe mine have far more concrete reasoning

uhh i dont have to look at ur post ur under my post bud!!!
ur yami sentence means literally nothing because that again is a presupposition
and the third senetence is erm unquantifiable to an exact number and only an estimate but def not 400x!!! would need more evidence

 

[Luci5678]

I can argue on his behalf as I'm not entirely against removing the MFTL one anyway, except for the Yami part. BC going from SOL to MFTL is inherently crazy, especially considering that the main reasoning behind it can be easily debunked by simply pointing out that Gauche's beam also shares the same feats as light magic, meeting the LS standard on this website. Yet, it isn't treated as SOL here (which I agree with). So, what makes those statue beams special and different from Gauche's beam when they're not even real light magic to begin with? Unless I skipped some chapters. I need some enlightenment from whoever, which I forget, who brings up this MFTL argument again.

lit brodie

 

[Luci5678]

Yeah disagree fra, Outlier is thrown around like a paper-mache rock lol

good argument

 

[Luci5678]

Gay JJK profile pic
There's not much to say

good argument

 

[CloverDragon03]

uhh i dont have to look at ur post ur under my post bud!!!

Trying to give you easy access to what my arguments against it being an outlier are. Not my fault if you choose to avoid it

ur yami sentence means literally nothing because that again is a presupposition

That's... not what a presupposition is. It's flat-out stated

and the third senetence is erm unquantifiable to an exact number and only an estimate but def not 400x!!! would need more evidence

This is not an argument, it's just headcanon.

 

[Luci5678]

Back on topic, I disagree fra. Nice try though

Extremely poor crt. An argument founded on incredulity will get you nowhere

I remember clover the key person in the upgrade meticulously went over why this feat is not an outlier.
Kindly go to the upgrade thread and actually read it.

not an argument and I did, it was shit

 

[CloverDragon03]

It's shit and yet I have yet to see a proper refute. Crazy

 

[Luci5678]

Trying to give you easy access to what my arguments against it being an outlier are. Not my fault if you choose to avoid it

That's... not what a presupposition is. It's flat-out stated

This is not an argument, it's just headcanon.

so ur lost, ill wait for an argument

 

[CloverDragon03]

I'm not lost on anything. This is, quite frankly, a horrific argument you're bringing to the table - that is, it's pretty much entirely personal disbelief and that's it

 

[Vzearr]

Gay JJK profile pic
There's not much to say

Not funny, neither aproproiate.

This is literally bro’s first message. Was an account really made for this?

No need to derail the thread.

good argument

You should try to put all of your arguments/replies in one message.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Isn't that literally what the OP is? The arguments themselves are just incredibly weak

 

[Vzearr]

Isn't that literally what the OP is? The arguments themselves are just incredibly weak

Yami's statement is that it presupposes that Yami can see things that are ls when there is no other evidence, one could say that it is photonic but it isn't because of its form and its obvious mass properties. (I can touch up on this topic more if asked questions)

Clover, maybe first actually try to refute his arguments.

Debunk why it doesn't actually pre suppose that Yami can see things that are LS.

using this we can then move onto that after the fact of asta and yuno training to save yami they are only slightly stronger and faster than a devil heart yami which was keeping up slighty with lucifero and since we already established that a mana increase doesn't mean that that specific person will be able to output said amount of more mana. We can take the first dante vs yami fight for example, dante clearly would have more mana than yami yet they are somewhat even in the fight, and this is because of mana control and output. After all this we come to asta and yuno barely being able to fight 85 percent dante with devil arm to being slightly faster than yami after power amps and new forms. So i think that with all of this the feat would have to be classified as an outlier even if they had more time to train that big of a jump just doesn't fit in narratively.

Debunk this to.

Also, these black clover supporters need to be stop with their derailing.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Not funny, neither aproproiate

This thread is not appropriate
It lacks scan, justification, a new rating proposal, sources or basic logic.

 

[Vzearr]

This thread is not appropriate
It lacks scan, justification, a new rating proposal, sources or basic logic.

Neither was your comment.

Its a new user, just tell them instead of calling their pfp "gay" and making fun of them.