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Black Clover speed downgrade

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USklaverei said:
But there he is wondering, not stating, however, it is a point that he be amazed at the speed of light.
My question is:

  • How does an MFTL guy have difficulty or be amazed at the speed of light?
  • How does an MFTL guy say he can't hit a guy at lightning speed?
  • How does an MFTL guy need to predict attacks to defend against an attack at lightning speed?
Click to expand...
make sense

an MFTL user should not have any trouble of caching or dodging LS user
 
LOL, Flash (Wally West) (Post-Crisis) explicity needs to put effort to reach light speed, and surpassing it is treated as an extremely amazing feat of his, yet, you'll see he has tons and tons of calcs that put him easily BILLIONS OF TIMES above light speed. So yeah, feats > statements, if they have MFTL feats, then below FTL statements don't matter.
 
I love how you litteraly debunked nothing except for the laser not being called light.

Also drop your tone, like, right now.
 
If I summary all of your arguments:

- There's already Light Magic, Asta could deflect Gauche's beams but not Patry's

Gauche's beams, if anything fits the standards more perfectly than Patry's. They don't bend nor explode, they burns, they dont take weird shapes and always moves at straight line. That just means Patry's Light Magic is faster than Gauche's Magic. Also Light Magic =/= Always LS, example here (where it's faster) and here (it's just a structure made of light.)


- Yami couldn't dodge Patry's Strongest spell

First, that has nothing to do with Gauche's laser not being LS. Second, he increased the speed of his attack making it faster then light. Last, That just means Patry's fastest spell is faster than Yami...but that still DOES NOT have ANYTHING to do with Gauche's laser


- Gauche's beams isn't said to be light

Not being called light =/= Not moving at lightspeed


- A bunch of meaningless statements

Feats > Statements ! Get that in your head already.
 
Ionliosite said:
LOL, Flash (Wally West) (Post-Crisis) explicity needs to put effort to reach light speed, and surpassing it is treated as an extremely amazing feat of his, yet, you'll see he has tons and tons of calcs that put him easily BILLIONS OF TIMES above light speed. So yeah, feats > statements, if they have MFTL feats, then below FTL statements don't matter.
Click to expand...
The point here is that Yami needs to predict the attacks to intercept him.

Moreover, he is definitely quoting that cannot reach Patri because he deviates at the speed of light.

The MFTL feat is done by a beam that is not even called the speed of light and is still totally contradictory to the context through which the work goes through.
 
The point here is that they are considering Gauche's beam to be the speed of light, although it has all the properties of light, it is not light.
Also, it has been shown to be much slower than the speed of light, which is the point, since the up to MFTL is due to the Gauche beam.
 
Um, no the discussion is still open, you really shouldn't try to end threads despite there being an ongoing discussion. Pretty slimy thing to do tbh.

The discussion isn't open, this guy is totally ignoring the many FTL feats Black Clover has because of a couple of statements. I already gave The Flash Wally West to explain why that logic is flawed.
 
- Gauche's beams, if anything fits the standards more perfectly than Patry's. They don't bend nor explode, they burns, they dont take weird shapes and always moves at straight line. That just means Patry's Light Magic is faster than Gauche's Magic. Also Light Magic =/= Always LS, example here (where it's faster) and here (it's just a structure made of light.)

Your argument makes no sense, Patri can also build light constructs, but that won't be the speed of light, I never said that.

- First, that has nothing to do with Gauche's laser not being LS. Second, he increased the speed of his attack making it faster then light. Last, That just means Patry's fastest spell is faster than Yami...but that still DOES NOT have ANYTHING to do with Gauche's laser

It has to do, since all of this is interconnected. Patri cites that this is his greatest magic, a speed that Yami cannot avoid, Gauche cites that this is the speed of light and that he cannot see. Do you want to ignore all this to force it totally nonsense?

- Not being called light =/= Not moving at lightspeed

But why would it be the speed of light?

- Feats > Statements ! Get that in your head already.

Yes, I agree that 'Talents >> Declarations', but that doesn't even come in here, since as I mentioned, Gauche's beams are not light.
 
Ionliosite said:
The discussion isn't open, this guy is totally ignoring the many FTL feats Black Clover has because of a couple of statements. I already gave The Flash Wally West to explain why that logic is flawed.
Click to expand...
You who are ignoring the whole context of the work to force this ridiculous up.

Gauche's magic is treated as being far below the speed of light and he cannot even see the speed of light, even taking blitz from these attacks.
 
The discussion isn't open, this guy is totally ignoring the many FTL feats Black Clover has because of a couple of statements. I already gave The Flash Wally West to explain why that logic is flawed.

Flash has hundreds of feats that rank him in MFTL+ at a pretty rekaxed level, so any quote reducing him to light-speed or below is PIS.

Black Clover literally has only one calculated feat in MFTL and this comes from people far inferior to Yami.

I must assume that OP makes sense here. Yami, who is a top-tier in the series, needs to use precog to react to SoL attacks and still not being able to keep up with this speed via his own words just makes the MFTL feat incoherent with the speed standards.

But I'm neutral about Gauche. His attacks have not been confirmed as being light or having the speed of light (If I'm not mistaken) but at the same time this looks like light and reflect on mirros.
 
You who are ignoring the whole context of the work to force this ridiculous up.

Gauche's magic is treated as being far below the speed of light and he cannot even see the speed of light, even taking blitz from these attacks.

And the Flash is rarely considered to be moving at light speed when he clearly is moving far above it. For example, CW Flash was stated to be moving at just over Mach 7 when he did this feat: User blog:Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan/Supergirl and Flash circle the world (Elseworlds)
 
The beam refracts in a new material, such as a liquid:

From the scans posted it does.

The beam reflects off a material that it can be expected to, such as a non-magical mirror:

It does not. He is using magical mirrors.

The beam is called lightspeed by reliable sources:

Apparently has not been stated to be light.

It is stated to be made of photons or light itself, again by a reliable source:

Nothing about this.

It has its origin at a realistic source of light, such as a camera:

Nothing about this.

So I don't see how this got accepted.
 
Because It's Patry's attack, who is MFTL because the Gauche's Laser is LS by the wiki's standards


  • The beam refracts in a new material, such as a liquid or...
Gauche's Laser: Yes

Light Magic: No


  • The beam reflects off a material that it can be expected to, such as a non-magical mirror
Gauche's Laser: Yes (In the Top Right panel)

Light Magic: No


  • The beam is called lightspeed by reliable sources
Gauche's Laser: No

Light Magic: Just called Light. The mage is stated to move at lightspeed but not the magic


  • It is shown at different speeds in the same material
Gauche's Laser: No

Light Magic: Yes


  • It is tangible and can be interacted with physically by normal humans
Gauche's Laser: No

Light Magic: Not sure


  • They do not travel in straight lines (unless you can prove refraction/reflection, see above)
Gauche's Laser: They do

Light Magic: They don't always
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Gauche uses mirror magic, if I recall this mirror is magical in every way. And I think the "reflect ray" comes out of the magic mirror.

So in reality it's only trait is the refraction.
Click to expand...
Grey (Black Clover) can convert matter, she converted a brick into a mirror and Gauche's beam was reflected
 
Ionliosite

I believe you do not understand the topic, so I will explain to you in detail.

My problem here is not the character being quoted having the speed of light and having an MFTL + feat, I clearly agree that the Feats >>> Statement , but in this case the MFTL feat is due to the Gauche beam that is contradicted to be the speed of light.

That is, even though Gauche beams have all the properties of real light, they are treated as well below the speed of light.
 
First point, see my previous post

Second point, Patry's Light Magic doesn't fit the standards, therefore, they are not Lightspeed. Stop saying he is

Third, couldn't see it doesn't mean he couldn't react to it. He couldn't see it because of the luminosity
 
Light Magic does not fit why? It is made of refraction and the best, is cited to have the speed of light, which is something concrete, would not need anything else.

No, he clearly says about the speed of the attack and not the luminosity.
 
@Epsilon

I don't see how this helps? Gauche's reflect ray meets 1 criteria. Which is refraction. Even the origin of the beams is like from inside the mirror as an ability.
 
When has Light Magic EVER be refracted? At best it was reflected by Gauche's Mirrors. Also Light Magic was never stated to move at lightspeed, Patry was but not Light Magic
 
He couldn't see it... yet he had the time to teleport and create a mirror while the beam was fired.

You can't see something when it's too fast for you to react, but also if it's too dark/bright. He was able to reflect it therefore he reacted to the attack.
 
Yes, yes, but you said that Light Magic was never mentioned being the speed of light, Gauche was referring to what then?
 
@Sigurd: So really it doesn't meet any criteria. How did this get passed again? I guess we are becoming pretty laxed with light speed stuff.
 
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