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Black Clover: Miscellaneous Revisions

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CloverDragon03

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So, coming off of the massive speed CRT that Black Clover just had, this CRT is more on the miscellaneous side of things. There are four revisions I'm gonna talk about here, so with that said, here we go.

Noelle's Accelerated Development
Noelle's Accelerated Development in this fight is actually really good. Looking at the start of the fight, we see that at the start of the fight, Base Vanica effortlessly negates Valkyrie Dress Noelle's Sea Dragon's Roar. This gap in power is also why Noelle needed the help of Loropechika's Mana Zone to cut Vanica's power in half and boost her own power. But then, after Vanica uses 70% of her Devil Power, Decaying World activates, and Mana Zone is destroyed. Yet, even then, Noelle is able to withstand several stab wounds (even if she evaded lethal wounds, it's notable that she withstood those hits to begin with) from 70% Vanica's attacks and even managed to stab her. In fact, it's enough that Vanica bleeds, which even shocks her.

Now, even with this Accelerated Development, Noelle is still weaker than 70% Vanica. Her Point-Blank Sea Dragon's Roar gets countered by Vanica's Red Beast. That said, this should be cause for Noelle to downscale to baseline High 6-B (100 teratons), given she was able to withstand several hits, evade her attacks enough to dodge lethal wounds (so she'd also somewhat scale in speed), and stab her enough to make her bleed, shocking her.

However, that's not the only Noelle revision I'll be discussing here...

Splitting Noelle's Keys
We really need to split Noelle's Post-Timeskip Key into the Heart Kingdom Joint Struggle Arc and the Spade Kingdom Raid Arc. Based on the changes I have just suggested, her Heart Kingdom Joint Struggle key would be as follows:

High 6-C, higher with Valkyrie Dress, up to High 6-B with Accelerated Development

Now comes the Spade Kingdom Raid Arc, which I believe should be as follows:

High 6-C, High 6-B with Valkyrie Dress, far higher with Spirit Dive

Notice the High 6-B Valkyrie Dress? Yeah, that's because Noelle's Valkyrie Dress becomes potent enough that 100% Vanica had to actively block (or I guess catch) Noelle's lance. Bear in mind that this same Vanica has the stamina to withstand stab wounds, so that's telling of Valkyrie Dress's strength. Not sure how much into High 6-B this should be, maybe we can downscale to baseline again. I don't know, but this 100% should be High 6-B.


Mimosa's Durability + Pre-Timeskip Noelle's AP and Durability
Mimosa's durability honestly sucks. Both keys should really have Unknown durability, and I say this because the justifications in their current state honestly suck. The justifications are "Survived a strike from Mars" (who is 8-A at the time) and "Survived the Dark Disciple's explosion"

The problem is: In both cases, she was one-shot by these attacks. Thus, her durability should not scale.

As for Noelle, her 8-A AP and durability is really unjustified. Both should be Unknown, because her only notable AP feats come from Sea Dragon's Roar and, like Mimosa, she was one-shot by Mars. She takes a hit from Solid in the Royal Knights Arc, but Solid's AP is Unknown at the time due to a lack of feats.


Sealed Licht's AP
So, as per the VS Battles Wiki combined attack standards, Sealed Licht's feat of blocking Asta and Yuno's attack isn't necessarily 2x their AP, because the attack was a physical one rather than a combination of their powers. The other two cases of combined attacks in Black Clover actively involve the two characters combining their powers (Yuno's Wind Magic + Asta's Anti-Magic, Noelle's Water Magic + Mimosa's Plant Magic), but not this one. So, Sealed Licht's AP would go down to:

At least 6-C, likely High 6-C

He'd be scaling above Black Asta and Spirit Dive Yuno individually in that fight between them, and the second part of his rating of course comes from his performance against Zagred being arguably better than that of Two-Horned Black Asta and Elf Spirit Dive Yuno.

That's everything I've got so...
DISCUSS!
 
Oh Clover btw according to KLOL, Parrying two simultaneous physical attacks will grant a 2x to LS instead. Does that apply to Licht or does the fact that he got disarmed in the process of blocking the attacks make him not to scale.
 
Agree.... Mostly. Disagree with "unknown" durability Mimosa. She was able to take an attack from Spirit Guardian Sarada with minimal/zero damage in the anime canon. That was in the beginning of their training too, so she'd be far higher than that in the post-TS.
 
Agree.... Mostly. Disagree with "unknown" durability Mimosa. She was able to take an attack from Spirit Guardian Sarada with minimal/zero damage in the anime canon. That was in the beginning of their training too, so she'd be far higher than that in the post-TS.
Really hard to say how much effort Sarada was putting into this since this is, well, training. And it doesn't really line up with Mimosa getting one-shot by a Dark Disciple explosion
 
Really hard to say how much effort Sarada was putting into this since this is, well, training. And it doesn't really line up with Mimosa getting one-shot by a Dark Disciple explosion
Charlotte was fighting her seriously. A Charlotte who scales relative to Yami who was already way stronger than he was when fighting Zagred. So even that level of Sarada > Charlotte. Keep in mind pretty much every other Guardian wasn’t afraid to body their trainees. Finral and Asta were getting dragged by Floga and Gaja.
 
That would indicate Low 6-B durability and again, Mimosa getting one-shot by this explosion wouldn't indicate that level of durability at all. It just doesn't add up.
 
That would indicate Low 6-B durability and again, Mimosa getting one-shot by this explosion wouldn't indicate that level of durability at all. It just doesn't add up.
How does that not add up?

Explosion > 50% Disciple >>> Sarada > Pre-TS Sarada (it was stated the Spirit Guardians got stronger over the TS well).

She takes minimal damage from a character vastly weaker than the explosion.

Wait, are the disciples only scaled to Zagred?
 
Then why wouldn’t it be the same case for Mimosa durabiltly ?
Because scaling someone to the same tier as an attack they get one-shot by is… far from the best practice, honestly.

In addition, it ends up creating a ton of circular scaling if we end up scaling characters to an attack they had to combine their powers to stop. I talked about it more in the Discord server a couple of days ago and making Mimosa’s durability Unknown was really the best solution I could find
Charlotte was fighting her seriously. A Charlotte who scales relative to Yami who was already way stronger than he was when fighting Zagred. So even that level of Sarada > Charlotte. Keep in mind pretty much every other Guardian wasn’t afraid to body their trainees. Finral and Asta were getting dragged by Floga and Gaja.
Also about this point, Sarada is not Floga or Gaja, so we can’t say if her training approach of “not being afraid to body their trainees” holds up for her
 
Because scaling someone to the same tier as an attack they get one-shot by is… far from the best practice, honestly.

In addition, it ends up creating a ton of circular scaling if we end up scaling characters to an attack they had to combine their powers to stop. I talked about it more in the Discord server a couple of days ago and making Mimosa’s durability Unknown was really the best solution I could find

Also about this point, Sarada is not Floga or Gaja, so we can’t say if her training approach of “not being afraid to body their trainees” holds up for her
We have the Dark Disciples in the same tier as Zagred, even though the Dark Disciples would casually one-tap Zagred. There is a massive gap in power between the timeskip. The only reason they are in the same tier is because of the unquantifiable power gap.

I agree with her not scaling to the explosion. But her durability should scale to Sarada.

Even if Sarada is holding back, the level of her power would be Zagred (Low-6B), since Charlotte was struggling against her. That Charlotte already surpassed Charla and was comparable to a Yami, who had gotten so much stronger that Lolo said he got "to an even higher plane" before he even began his training against Mereo.

Honestly, we might need to make a Mid-TS Key for characters. As there are many considerable power growths and some are even quantifiable with some percentages given.

So like I said I agree with everything, even Mimosa not scaling to the explosion, but I believe she should at least scale to her mid-TS durability.
 
Should we discuss making Mid-TS keys for some characters then? Because we may need to get into the nuances of Beginning of Timeskip (Magna scaling to Leo who scales to Two-Horned Black Asta) vs. Mid-Timeskip (Black Asta becoming able to damage Gaja, Mimosa taking hits from Sarada, etc.)

If we have to make a different thread for that, we can, but that'd mean having to make Mimosa's durability Unknown for the time being.
 
Should we discuss making Mid-TS keys for some characters then? Because we may need to get into the nuances of Beginning of Timeskip (Magna scaling to Leo who scales to Two-Horned Black Asta) vs. Mid-Timeskip (Black Asta becoming able to damage Gaja, Mimosa taking hits from Sarada, etc.)

If we have to make a different thread for that, we can, but that'd mean having to make Mimosa's durability Unknown for the time being.
That's fine
 
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