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Patty's normal speed is Relativistic. He's only light speed with certain Light Magic spells, like Ray of Divine Punishment or his movement spell
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Black Clover : FTL+ again
- Thread starter AstaDragon123
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AstaDragon123
He/Him- 231
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you said "But we don't know if he was moving at light speed when trying to dodge it" I understand this. Because of this description, Patry doesn't say how he dodged Julius attack. But I want you to look at these statements: Patry says "I ADMIT IT. YOU'RE THE SECOND PERSON TO HAVE POWER THAT COULD DEFEAT ME ! Meaning, he said that Yami is another person who has a power that can fight him evenly and have a chance to defeat him, just like Wizard King Julius if you read the manga or watch the anime. You know that Patry seriously fights Yami, and you look at these statements: "AS THE WIZARD KING, THIS LAND'S STRONGEST MAGE..." Patry says that Julius is the strongest mage in the kingdom. That means Julius must be stronger than Yami, right? So it makes sense that he would use magic that would allow him to move at the speed of light dodged Julius attack when Patry meets Julius for the first time. Because even when fighting Yami, Patry still fights seriously and uses magic that makes himself move at the speed of light, And lastly, Patry also says "I THOUGHT I HAD DODGED IT..." That means Patry must have seen Julius and saw that Julius was about to use magic to attack. Attacks at him, So Patry had time to use the magic that allowed him to move at the speed of light to dodges Julius' attacks, but Patry is unable to dodge. And the reason Patry knew Julius was the strongest mage in the kingdom was because he had been watching Julius inside William's body. all the time
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I never understood this, why do we only treat some light attacks as SOL when light magic as a whole is described as having the speed of light?
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If we do this that would make that chubby washed up human that passes as a king using light magic an sol mage. And that makes absolutely no sense. Light magic is treated as having the ultimate speed but you'd require training to reach said ultimate speed though
Xinsignia1
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From what I understand, only light rays (ray of divine punishment) and Patry's movement spell have been called light speed.
There's a difference between light rays, & light constructs/creations.
Spells like light swords of conviction are creation spells that have varying speeds. They may be relativistic, but not inherently light speed. This isn't to say that they can't be amped to LS but fundamentally they wouldn’t be since they're not traveling rays of light, but rather constructs with variable speeds.
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I understand that light buildings do not qualify for SOL, but I don't understand where this variation in speed between attacks comes from, I don't remember any statement about this
Edit : like the punishment ray would still somehow be a light construct that looks like an AOE that explodes when it comes into contact with the target, which makes the difference between it and the other light attacks non-existent, right ?
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Xinsignia1
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Patry was bombarding Yami with countless light swords after a while some of the light swords got through and Yami noted he got faster.
Divine ray of punishment is not a construct, it's a concentrated attack that's released as a concentrated ray of light. And visually the graphic shows rays emanating from it, unlike the swords which have a specific form.
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Thanks
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The entirety of Light Magic isn't described as such. And some spells straight up don't meet our standards. For example, Light Whip of Judgment absolutely doesn't fit our standards for light speed.
Behemoth98
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What is the conclusion here? May I ask?
AstaDragon123
He/Him- 231
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In a moment I'll explain why cals Nozel is available again. But for now, I'm busy.
Behemoth98
He/Him- 57
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Np. I can wait babe
AstaDragon123
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As for Nozel cals FTL+, if you saying it goes against the story because there are statements "LIGHT MAGIC IS THE FASTEST MAGIC THERE IS" if that's the case. I can say that cals Black Clover: Paladin Feats also goes against the story. Because the story doesn't say how fast the Yuno massive barrier, which is a spell of star magic, is. And if you were to say "No. Although I've mentioned the cap of light speed for Black Clover, this is only relevant until the Elf Arc. Afterwards, such a cap doesn't appear to exist, as evidenced by Lucifero being FTL , Demon Light Magic literally being FTL itself, and the lack of light speed being stated or even hinted as an ultimate level of speed in the Spade Arc onwards.” I'll tell you if you think so. You are seriously wrong. Just because Statements that occur in the Elf saga does not mean that Statements cannot be used in the Spade saga or the Final saga. And most importantly, neither the Spade saga nor the Final saga states a limit to the speed of magic Like the Elf saga says Light magic is the fastest type of magic. Therefore, light magic is still the fastest magic in Elf saga, Spade saga, or even Final saga. In case of not counting Demon light magic which is an upgraded version of Light magic. And let me ask, if light magic really was the fastest magic, So why did Yuno use Wind Spirit Creation Magic: Spirit of Notos to block Lucius attack that has speed combat 478.48c?
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This is just not a good argument. These sorts of statements putting a cap on the speed only exist up to the Elf Arc. The Spade Arc onwards does no such thing, and for good reason. It's why Lucifero's able to be FTL, and why the Massively FTL Yuno calc is able to exist. Your only rebuttal isn't even an argument, it pretty much amounts to "because I said so." In fact, in this part:
I think you're just agreeing with me. Your argumentation's completely all over the place
I think you're just agreeing with me. Your argumentation's completely all over the place
AstaDragon123
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You say that Spade saga and Final saga doesn't tell you the speed limit. It doesn't mean going faster than the speed limit in Elf saga.
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Again, what are you trying to say? This speed cap doesn't exist anymore as of the Spade Saga onwards, yes. In the Elf Saga though, it absolutely does. And as long as that exists in the Elf Saga, those FTL+ calcs aren't getting reinstated
AstaDragon123
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So can you tell me why Yono was able to use Wind Spirit Creation Magic: Spirit of Notos to block Lucius, blocking Lucius' attacks with a speed of 478.48c? And let me first tell you that Spirit Magic Creation has Since the Efl saga.
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Yeah but it's never reached this kind of speed until the Final Saga, so that's not relevant
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Still wonder how the beams that angels use, which barely meet the "supposed" criteria for light speed, are accepted as light speed, while the sword of judgment, which meets almost all of the criteria with only one contradiction so far (or is it even really a contradiction when it's been established that magic can go faster?), isn't. And to say no magic can be faster than light at that time because of blah ah Julius, while there are multiple instances where it was shown otherwise, is just so foolish. But hey, this is nothing new really.
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Please don't comment if all you're going to provide are complaints about something separate and then give zero substantiation when you do complain about what's relevant. It's just needless clutter
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You know very well that even if I actually address the issues, you won't accept anything lol. I know, I know, it's irrelevant. Isn't it ironic how some of you talk about narrative, yet believe a meteor is stronger than the highest forbidden magic just because a calculation says so? Some of these things I see are just too unbearable not to comment on.
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If you don't want to address anything for that reason, just don't comment. Petty things like this will just eventually get you reported
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Yuno and Asta taking Licht's perception blitz even when they can mark Patry's demonic light which is FTL, doesn't that already prove that this speed ceiling doesn't exist? Or Mereoleona who can move faster than Yami's ki detection which can mark SOL movements, should also be taken into consideration
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The Asta and Yuno thing doesn't hold up because the Asta and Yuno that fought Licht are much weaker than the Asta and Yuno that fought Dark Elf Patry
Idk anything about the Yami vs. Mereoleona fight in terms of speed scaling but that's right before the Spade Arc so it'd only scale to Spade Arc characters, which is viable
Idk anything about the Yami vs. Mereoleona fight in terms of speed scaling but that's right before the Spade Arc so it'd only scale to Spade Arc characters, which is viable
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Shouldn't Asta score SOL yet, with this here? I don't know how we treat this on the Wiki but it seems to qualify for light since it is a reflection and also seems to meet the Wiki's light criteria
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Gauche's Mirror Magic is a tricky one with our light standards and Light Magic being the absolute fastest meaning that Mirror Magic being on the same speed level is contradictory. But even then, the feat itself wouldn't inherently be light speed because the light seems to have moved more distance than Asta did in the same timeframe
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I confess that I don't understand the contradiction here
Edit: Do you have confirmation of light magic > mirror magic?
My point is that Asta can score Mirror Magic, but he can't do the same with Licht
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Light Magic is supposed to be the fastest magic there is, at the speed of light. Mirror Magic is never even implied to be on the same level of speed, so it would create a contradiction if Mirror Magic was just suddenly also the fastest magic with no implication of that
I don't understand the correlation here
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So contradiction is an assumption? But even so, nothing stops them from having the same speed, the SOL speed ceiling would still be there and it's not like light magic is was the only one capable of dealing with light either When it comes to light manipulation we have several examples of this in verse of a character using an attribute derived from the main attribute of their magic
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It's only Light Magic that's the fastest magic. It's never "Light Magic and Mirror Magic", nor is it "Light Magic is one of the fastest magic attributes", otherwise this would be noted. It's not an assumption, it's going by what the story's giving us
Okay. Mirror Magic isn't light speed.
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Do you really need a statement like that? And the reason light magic is the fastest is just because it uses "literal light" that moves at the speed of light, but it shouldn't be the only one capable of using literal light, a clear example is what we use for the MFTL classification Lucius' angels do not have light magic but can still use light attacks
Edit: I don't see how this is so difficult to understand, Lucius' angels don't even have an attribute and can have light attack with light speed ,but a guy with mirror magic and who uses light reflection between mirrors can't?
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Yes, actually
Headcanon. This reason is never stated
The angels... very clearly use Light Magic. That's their means of attacking
Them not having an attribute is made up. They're built to counter incoming spells, yes, but they themselves can use Light Magic. it'd be even more of an unfounded assumption to claim the light they use isn't magic in a magic-filled world where only one guy can't use magic
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No need, something extremely explicit does not need to be declared
What would be the reason for light magic to have the speed of light then?
If you think so, what would be the problem with assuming that Drowa/gauche can also use light spells?
My point now wasn't about them not using magic but rather that they can use light to attack, I understand the speed ceiling stuff but I don't like the idea that only light magic users can use SOL spells
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AstaDragon123
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No, as I said, Spirit Creation Magic is still slower than Light magic, whether within the Elf saga, Spade saga or Final saga, as Julius said "LIGHT MAGIC IS THE FASTEST MAGIC THERE IS" if you say these Statements. It can only be used in Elf saga. Other Saga. The limit to magical speed was not specified. It doesn't mean that other sagas will have magic that is faster than Light magic. And finally, Spade saga and Final saga. There has never been any message that says something like for example : Star magic is magic that is faster than Light magic or Star magic is magic whose speed is comparable to Light magic or even other magic never been told.
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Show me where Light Magic is stated to be the fastest in the Spade Saga or Final Saga. I'll wait
AstaDragon123
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Then you have to prove that Star magic is faster than Light magic Or Star magic is as fast as Light magic as well, then I'll wait.
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