• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Bill Cipher vs Yan Sen | 9-0–1 (Grace done, at this point idek)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Why would its independence from reality give it a 0?
Because you're arguing that it can no-sell destruction even from Higher-Dimensional destruction.

It does not work like that, Type 1 concepts are only independent from the objects with that concept, not the plane of existence they exist in.
Already refuted. By this logic this guy does not have 5D hax because he's 3D.
 
No, the expression of reality used on the conceptual manipulation page is entirely related to the objects governed by the concept in question.
Such concepts, except perhaps other concepts of this nature, are completely independent of the part of reality they govern.
 
Because you're arguing that it can no-sell destruction even from Higher-Dimensional destruction.

It does not work like that, Type 1 concepts are only independent from the objects with that concept, not the plane of existence they exist in.

Already refuted. By this logic this guy does not have 5D hax because he's 3D.
Dude, I don't understand you, show me a 5D hax that belongs to Bill, come on, I'm waiting.
 
Such concepts, except perhaps other concepts of this nature, are completely independent of the part of reality they govern.
Being independent of universes =/= Being independent of the place where said universes exist in.
show me a 5D hax that belongs to Bill, come on, I'm waiting.
Literally every single one of his. The explanation in a nutshell.
TLDR Bill is connected with the Rift and his powers (said in plural, btw) are said to be stronger the more the rift keeps, which would have destroyed the cosmology and was directly altering it other than physically taking the Nightmare Realm in the Multiverse.
 
Being independent of universes =/= Being independent of the place where said universes exist in.

Literally every single one of his. The explanation in a nutshell.
TLDR Bill is connected with the Rift and his powers (said in plural, btw) are said to be stronger the more the rift keeps, which would have destroyed the cosmology and was directly altering it other than physically taking the Nightmare Realm in the Multiverse.
where exactly is the 5d hax
 
where exactly is the 5d hax
kurt_angle_meme.jpg
 
Yeah this is just a circus at this point.

People are pretending the evidence just does not exist when there are proofs in the profiles with scans.
 
Bill's Wincons
  • Manipulation (with Social Influencing)
  • Possesion
  • Mind Manipulation (Yan-Sen only resists absorption of the Mind)
  • Transmutation
  • Petrification
  • Biological Manipulation
  • Madness Manipulation (In 2 different ways)
  • Sleep Manipulation into Sealing
  • Time SHIT
I think these are potential wincons for Bill. Tell me if I am wrong

Now for Yan-Sen I cannot list 'em since I have no idea who he is, can someone from the Yan-Sen's side make a list of wincons that can be used for the debate?
Reposting since this was buried

Does Yan have any answe to these?
 
weren't you the one who told me there was a 5d haxi, I can't see a 5d hax here
I said all of the hax of his are 5D with explanations directly from his profile, I quoted the parts hinting at that, but you didn't take even a minute to reply "where's 5D hax" again.

As if you didn't even read my stuff.
 
Last edited:
Reposting since this was buried

Does Yan have any answe to these?
On his profile, he has Concept Manip even though it's 5D, I think it can still affect Bill since he's only 3D physically, Causality, Law, and Fate manipulation with Type 4 negation, and precog
 
On his profile, he has Concept Manip even though it's 5D, I think it can still affect Bill since he's only 3D physically, Causality, Law, and Fate manipulation with Type 4 negation, and precog
Wait how does he negate Acasuality 4? The profile uses the same scan for causality manipulation, dont you need to affect a Acasual 4 being to get Acasual 4 Negation?
 
I said all of the hax of his are 5D with explanations directly from his profile, I quoted the parts hinting at that, but you didn't take even a minute to reply "where's 5D hax" again.

As if you didn't even read my stuff.
First of all, ap and hax are different concepts, you cannot say that bill has 5d hax by conveying the ap performance and it is not stated that bill has 5d hax in his profile, are you adding these yourself?
 
First of all, ap and hax are different concepts, you cannot say that bill has 5d hax by conveying the ap performance and it is not stated that bill has 5d hax in his profile, are you adding these yourself?
Literally all his hax are part of the Weirdmageddon that is physically affecting the cosmology. His hax and AP are linked due to the very nature of those, if you bothered to actually read what I posted.
 
Reposting since this was buried

Does Yan have any answe to these?
I'll try to answer to the best of my capability.

Social Influencing, I don't know exactly it entails, so I don't know how Yan Sen can counter it, if he can even counter it.

Possession could work, but didn't Bill need to seal a deal to do so?

For Mind Manip, he did resist one, but weirdly enough it's not on his profile, so I suppose we can't count it?

Transmutation is fine too.

Petrification should work, I think, depend on how it is done.

Biological Manip should work (?)

I was almost sure that Yan Sen had resisted Madness stuff at one point, but maybe I'm misremembering, so that should probably work too.

The Sealing part could work depending on how it's done. From what I see on his profile, it seems to be a BFR, so Yan Sen could probably use an anti-seal or just return to the normal world as he did with the God of Consciousness' universe. As for the sleep manipulation stuff, I'm unsure.

They should both be able to stop time, so I guess it goes both way for time manip? Idk.

I'm not too much knowledgeable on the whole "abstract existence" stuff, so I can't address it or know if it's a good argument against some of the win cons of Bill.
 
Literally all his hax are part of the Weirdmageddon that is physically affecting the cosmology. His hax and AP are linked due to the very nature of those, if you bothered to actually read what I posted.
After reading it once, I read it again but it's still not 5d :D
 
Wait how does he negate Acasuality 4? The profile uses the same scan for causality manipulation, dont you need to affect a Acasual 4 being to get Acasual 4 Negation?
On profile, seems like he just cut any Cause and Effect system?
 
Possession could work, but didn't Bill need to seal a deal to do so?
No, thats only for Mindscape
For Mind Manip, he did resist one, but weirdly enough it's not on his profile, so I suppose we can't count it?
Please pay attention to the profile
The Sealing part could work depending on how it's done. From what I see on his profile, it seems to be a BFR, so Yan Sen could probably use an anti-seal or just return to the normal world as he did with the God of Consciousness' universe.
My idea was if sealed in "Yan-Senland" Yan Sen would probably not know how he got there nor would he even want or have the will to escape a place that literally is his heaven?
They should both be able to stop time, so I guess it goes both way for time manip? Idk.
Yan Sen cannot stop time according to the profile I think
 
After reading it once, I read it again but it's still not 5d :D

It's accepted, shut up and make a CRT to get it rejected if you don't like it.
 

It's accepted, shut up and make a CRT to get it rejected if you don't like it.
I am like... super tempted to make a RVR on this, because it's genuine trolling at this point.
 
I am like... super tempted to make a RVR on this, because it's genuine trolling at this point.
A. Why are you talking to me about this?

B. Why are you talking to me about this???

But, to actually comment on the match, Incon, IMO. Both can basically get rid of the other in one hax and that seems in-character for both.
 
No, thats only for Mindscape
So like he can possess anyone whenever he wants? If that's the case, yeah, that seems problematic for Yan Sen.
Please pay attention to the profile
I apologize, I have Bill's profile on another tab, but there is so much stuff that I'm kinda lost.

If Yan Sen had his actual mind manip resistance, there might have been some argument to make, but here, it's kinda difficult.
My idea was if sealed in "Yan-Senland" Yan Sen would probably not know how he got there nor would he even want or have the will to escape a place that literally is his heaven?
Well, this is EXACTLY what happens in the manwha. Yan Sen is getting "mind manip" by some God, showing him a world of wonders, with everything he ever wanted, but since he can do everything, including creating such a world, it doesn't work and get out of the mind manip easily. Again, it's not on his profile, but I just wanted to explain.
Yan Sen cannot stop time according to the profile I think
You're right, even tho he should have it. Eh, it happens.
 

It's accepted, shut up and make a CRT to get it rejected if you don't like it.
we are talking about their hax
 
Tbh Bill should have resistance to time hax in general, but this ain't the thread.
Honestly, I don't see many options for Yan Sen here. Just like another supporter said, maybe his aura could do the job.
 
I'm just going to post this since this fits the vibe of this discurss.

the energy, not the video itself.

 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top