Bill Cipher vs. Alien X

[Unoriginal_Memes]

Literally look at his profile.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Wha

It was removed, then

 

[MrLuk2000]

Perhaps you didn't read all of what MagicCloud6 wrote

"Bill snaps, Alien X's body is turned to stone (or whatever), Ben notices this and rewinds time and undos this"

 

[TheArsenal1212]

Even if he did and counters sleep and transmutation. Bill literally can't win at that point. X would just prevent transmutation or sleep and then what? If it's never actually going to work then it isn't a wincon. It's not like X is not gonna break out when he can.

Either X can't stop getting transmutated or put to sleep, or he stomps

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

Alien X hardly ever does this, and Bill could literally just snap again and stop time.

 

[TheArsenal1212]

Alien X hardly ever does this, and Bill could literally just snap again and stop time.

To be fair, Bill hardly ever stops time and hasn't actually done so in a combat scenario

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

If Timestop is a wincon, then its not a stomp

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

The point is that Alien X suffers from the exact same thing. I can use something Bill ever uses in a fight if people do the exact same thing for X and base X's victory on it.

 

[TheArsenal1212]

If Timestop is a wincon, then its not a stomp

Except Bill doesn't use it in combat and X counters it with his own space time Manip.

 

[TheArsenal1212]

Plus Bill in no way just stops time for eternity even if he could freeze X. So no it's not a wincon

 

[MrLuk2000]

He can use Madness Manipulation to drive him mad

Memory Manipulation and wipe out his memories

And secondly, its been discussed iirc that just because a character has a wincon, but just won't use it, doesn't mean its a necessary a stomp. That person has a wincon and can use it, its just that the person won't use it in character

 

[Listentomyrhytm]

If Timestop is a wincon, then its not a stomp

Except Bill doesn't use it in combat and X counters it with his own space time Manip.

If it's an OOC wincon, then it's not a stomp. Or atleast that's what I heard.

 

[MrLuk2000]

Also you do know Alien X is controlled by Ben right? Even since the most direst situation, he has come up with tacty ways to get himself out of a pickle.

Such as when he duplicated himself many times over and forced GG to make more decisions before taking him out with a black hole sucking him i

Edit: I highly doubt that Time Stop would work as Alien X's homeworld, The Forge of Creations, is a place that is out of sync with time

 

[TheArsenal1212]

Madness Manip won't work. It literally couldn't stop Dipper Pines

Bill used Memory Manipulation in the dreamscape, never outside it

Bill doesn't have a wincon. He can't stop time because X counters it and X also counters transmutation and sleep

 

[Christian_Higdon]

Then why the hell are you going on?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

So.....from ALL the abilities Bill has...he can only use Transmutation and Sleep for combat?

 

[The_Coolest_Water_Bottle]

Bruh.

 

[MrLuk2000]

Bill Cipher has BFR

 

[TheArsenal1212]

Nope. He uses lasers, duplication, transmutation, sleep, matter Manip (literally just changing a room that's it) and yeah essentially that's it. Madness bubbles literally caused zero harm to Dipper as well.

He can BFR but that's involves having someone permanently asleep so doesn't work either. Also BFR can easily be broken out of by again Dipper Pines

 

[MrLuk2000]

There's Death Manipulation (something Alien X isn't resistant to) and also Absorption (which is one of his big weakness)

 

[TheArsenal1212]

Death Manipulation which Bill hasn't used on anyone alive. Not once

Absorption which also hasn't been used on anyone alive at all.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

WOuldn't Dipper not being affected just be resistance to it? His bubbles turned that farmer guy mad so they do work.

 

[MrLuk2000]

And like I said before, just because a character has several abilities that could give him/her the win, but would never use it in character doesn't mean its a stomp. Bill has win cons, its just that he won't use it.

 

[EpicCookie12342]

Yeah I'm going with Alien X FRA

 

[TheArsenal1212]

Why would Dipper Pines have resistance to it when he has zero supernatural powers to back this up? Same goes with Wendy

His bubbles turned one old man mad for a two second gag. In terms of the actual plot it did nothing to Dipper and Wendy who went through a plethora of them

 

[TheArsenal1212]

And like I said before, just because a character has several abilities that could give him/her the win, but would never use it in character doesn't mean its a stomp. Bill has win cons, its just that he won't use it.

WHICH win cons?

 

[MrLuk2000]

Absorption, Death Manipulation, Memory, BFR, Mind Hax of his own, Deconstruction via Durability Negation

Perhaps Causality and Law Manipulation

 

[Kriskirby]

This is what's so sad about Bill

He has a wide range of superb and phenomenal hax but he never leads with them and he's 3-D, he had potential to be so much more

 

[Christian_Higdon]

I blame a specific somebody.

 

[TheArsenal1212]

Absorption, Death Manipulation, Memory, BFR, Mind Hax of his own

Perhaps Causality and Law Manipulation

Absorption, Death Manip and Mindhax won't work as I've explained. He doesn't use any ever to fight with. It's not an OOC thing here, they just aren't combat applicable apart from death Manip which we don't even see him doing it. Madness Manip isn't working either

Causality and Law Manipualtion is something he is GOING to do after the series ends so he isn't doing that either

BFR is easily escapable as the Pines did it by simply leaving and bursting the bubble

 

[MrLuk2000]

You only explained Death Manip and Absorption. Could you explain Mind Hax?

What do you mean by "Which we don't even see him doing it"? Did he ever used it in the show? If he has, but we never acutally see him doing it, then thats still a viable wincon

Fair enough

IDK how that works, but okay

 

[TheArsenal1212]

Bill is about to snap his fingers and something happens to either Dipper or Mabel. That's all we know of the death Manip. We do t know how or what happens so we can't assume it works here.

BFR was Bill putting Mabel in a bubble of her greatest desires. The eventually escape this by literally bursting her out

All the mind hax is, is madness Manip and if people say Bill's true name they go insane. That's it

 

[MrLuk2000]

Wait there's soul removal and possession

And I'm pretty sure Bill used that against Dipper and took control of his body

 

[TheArsenal1212]

Wait there's soul removal and possession

And I'm pretty sure Bill used that against Dipper and took control of his body

Dipper had to make a deal first

 

[MrLuk2000]

Found this where Bill mind controls those people with a snap

Edit: Go to 2:04

 

[The_Calaca]

Out of character wincon is still a wincon, therefore, it's not a stomp. If Bill is too stupid to not use anything else, that's his fault.

Continue the thread.

 

[TheArsenal1212]

Which wouldn't affect X anyway with his multiple personalities and it merely knocks the people into an unconscious state. After that Bill proceeds to transmutes them which we also know doesn't work

 

[TheArsenal1212]

Out of character wincon is still a wincon, therefore, it's not a stomp. If Bill is too stupid to not use anything else, that's his fault.

Continue the thread.

Please remind me which wincons are these ?

 

[The_Calaca]

That's up to you to discuss. I'm here to clarify that if Bill has a wincon but it's not in-character, it's still fair.

 

[TheArsenal1212]

That's up to you to discuss. I'm here to clarify that if Bill has a wincon but it's not in-character, it's still fair.

That's fine

I'm here saying though he doesn't have a wincon. Any abilities he does and can use, X counters with the info I've been given above and everything else he does either isn't helpful or wouldn't work