Bill Cipher: The Fastest Thing Alive

[Maverick_Zero_X]

This will be the first of 2-3 threads scrapping Bill’s Unknown ratings, since he does have quantifiable and indexable feats.

This calculation determines Bill’s movement speed to be Subsonic+.

 

[Eficiente]

This is correct.

Granted, the regular, standard size he has varies betweem being that big or as small as he was before having a body, and the calc may only applies to the former.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Didn't small Bill zoomed through Stan's mind while in the mindscape? Pretty sure he could do the same here as well

 

[Eficiente]

I don't remember that.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I don't remember that.

He did it in Dreamscrapers pretty sure.

 

[Eficiente]

In that episode it was unclear if his powers came from his own, Mind Manip that only applied there, or the natural ability everyone had to do anything there.

Besides that, as I see it Bill can vary the speed in which he moves, having moved slower than Subsonic+ to chase the kids in his monster form and the same when fighting that house, all out of arrogance and for fun despite the latter making him take damage, which gave him pain but also still took comically.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I mean, Bill wanted to prolong their suffering, so this is why he didn't just blitzed them and killed them on the spot

 

[Armorchompy]

I'm pretty sure everyone can vary the speed at which they move lol

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Yeah. Not all characters constantly move at top speed all the time, especially when they have no reason to do it

 

[Eficiente]

It is an issue when his own reactions get affected by this, if I was Subsonic+ I could choose to move slower, but that's not the same as doing so and getting an eye ripped by something slower, getting sprayed without me wanting to and failing to grab something slower briefly before it gets away, it would make more sense if I wasn't Subsonic+ but was able to make myself that fast at will. There isn't much of a difference between always having that speed & holding back and not having that & be able to apply it to yourself via your own superpowers, by the things Bill fails at the latter makes more sense.

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean, if he's in a situation where we can assume he's willfully making himself slower, it can also be assumed he's willfully pretending to **** up to amuse himself.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Bill was caught off guard in both times you mentioned. He certainly did not expected not only the Shield to work, but also that they'll use a Gobblewonker to rip his eye

As for the spray, Mabel literally caught him off guard as he was doing his threat to the twins. He couldn't have reacted to this in time

Overall bad examples

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I mean, if he's in a situation where we can assume he's willfully making himself slower, it can also be assumed he's willfully pretending to **** up to amuse himself.

Considering Bill said that pain is hilarious, I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case

 

[Eficiente]

I mean, if he's in a situation where we can assume he's willfully making himself slower, it can also be assumed he's willfully pretending to **** up to amuse himself.

It isn't to be presumed due not being the most logical, he's not pretending to screw up but genuinely screwing up because we can hear from his voice and see in his expressions the frustration he gets from this, in some cases he does make bad decisions to amuse himself, but not all the time to that degree. It's also not "willfully making himself slower" as much as it is "willfully neglecting to make himself faster as he has the ability to do so", because having the ability to do something isn't the same as needing to always use it.

Bill was caught off guard in both times you mentioned. He certainly did not expected not only the Shield to work, but also that they'll use a Gobblewonker to rip his eye

As for the spray, Mabel literally caught him off guard as he was doing his threat to the twins. He couldn't have reacted to this in time

Overall bad examples

Those examples are pretty much everything he has going for and getting caught him off guard is an excuse.

Considering Bill said that pain is hilarious, I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case

In context he said so while in another person's body, on top of having said that the best kind of pain was that of others, but even without that pain isn't the same as getting humiliated and frustrated on top of it.

Just look at all the stuff that need to be said for Bill to always be Subsonic+

• It amuses him to not be as practical as he could, which is correct in cases like him chasing the kids and his fight
• It amuses him get hit to be in pain avoidably and fail at very easy quicktime events while alway reacting to this as if genuinely failing at that, which is too convoluted
• He got caught off guard twice and this allows slower speeds to get him in a way that would not apply to his profile despite it being a reason here, somehow
• Bill said that pain is hilarious and so he may want things to get him not just pain but frustration too, both slowly coming to him in a way he can avoid. But also in context the pain he likes is likely that of others rather than his own, Bill also showing wrath to those who piss him off

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Those examples are pretty much everything he has going for and getting caught him off guard is an excuse.

Yeah that things happen. You can easily slap a professional boxer without them blocking you if you catch them when they aren't ready.

But I guess that just means my attack speed is > professional boxer because I slapped them while they weren't ready

 

[Eficiente]

• It amuses him get hit to be in pain avoidably and fail at very easy quicktime events while alway reacting to this as if genuinely failing at that, which is too convoluted

To make more clear, if I'm doing something in a table and something falls off, I try to grab it and I'm just about to do so but fail, and then show frustration over it then clearly I was not fast enough. If I have little respect for that thing that fell or like to destroy things then there's nothing to it, the fact that I did try to grab the falling thing and showed frustration over how I failed to grab it shows I was indeed not fast enough to grab it, not because I'm playing out my actions and how I feel about that falling. Could have I played out my actions and reactions? It's not impossible, yes, but unlikely and not to be presumed.

 

[Eficiente]

You can easily slap a professional boxer without them blocking you if you catch them when they aren't ready.

But I guess that just means my attack speed is > professional boxer because I slapped them while they weren't ready

There is less of a gap in speed there and a boxer while attacking isn't going to let "you" rip his eye in front of him, even if it wasn't a boxer, but add him Subsonic+ speeds and reactions and that's all the more unlikely.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

There is less of gap in speed there and a boxer while attacking isn't going to let "you" rip his eye in front of him, even if it wasn't a boxer, but add him Subsonic+ speeds and reactions and that's all the more unlikely.

That doesn't matter. They never had any time to react since they were caught off guard. Same goes to Bill. Hell in Mabel's case se got him while he still talked

 

[Armorchompy]

Listen, all of this is just speculation, you have zero evidence, just conjecture for what really is just a mild case of PIS. Assuming that the dude straight-up limits his power with zero concrete evidence is just not how we do things here, otherwise literally any antifeat that a character with Reality Warping has would be subject to the same treatment.

 

[Eficiente]

Assuming it's PIS it's speculation and conjecture, my take concludes he's not always at that level based on him not always being at that level, that's using information we already have, thus not ignoring anything, it is an assumption, but don't call it speculation and conjecture as if dismissing that information was objective and not a decision reasonable to not agree with. Clearly not "literally any antifeat that a character with Reality Warping has would be subject to the same treatment" as those have their own context and amount of screen time, this case is its own thing. Besides that, simply as something fitting, we have seen Bill straight-up limit his power, he only grow at his biggest size shown for the fight he had, and remained in Gravity Falls with a lower power and speed than what he could have achieved when growing bigger simply for fun, before knowing he couldn't leave the town.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Still doesn't change that saying that Bill is not Subsonic+ because he was caught off-guard is like saying that my attack speed is greater than that of a professional boxer since I can slap him when he's off guard making him unable to react to my slap in time

 

[Armorchompy]

Assuming it's PIS it's speculation and conjecture

No, PIS is the default assumption.

my take concludes he's not always at that level based on him not always being at that level

which can also be, more reasonably, explained with PIS.

 

[Eficiente]

Ok then, since this isn't the biggest thing in the world and what needed to be said was said I'll say no more, if I maintain my opinion.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Oh right, bump.

 

[Antvasima]

@Elizhaa @Amelia_Lonelyheart @The_Impress

What do you thinkabout this?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

…I guess this should be applicable?

 

[Antvasima]

What are the conclusions here so far?

 

[Armorchompy]

applying the speed i think

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, as long as our staff have accepted it, that is probably fine then.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Okay, as long as our staff have accepted it, that is probably fine then.

Cool, if Bill Cipher is unlocked I’ll apply the change

 

[Antvasima]

I have unlocked the page, but are you certain that we do not need more input here?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I have unlocked the page, but are you certain that we do not need more input here?

I don’t think so, it’s just replacing an Unknown statistic with a calced feat

Edit: Applied the edit, the profile and this thread can be locked

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will do so. Thank you for helping out.