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Bill Cipher revisions

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Bill's "Weirdness Manipulation" is just a form of Chaos Manipulation. There is no need to make it its own ability, just specify it.

Bill doesn't manipulate the possibility of weirdness, but makes weird things happen, which in itself is Chaos Manipulation. Besides, Chaos is weird.
 
@Ricsi

  • "What specific uses that arent covered by other abilities?"
Just explained that already, not repeating myself again.

  • "Minor thing does not entail the cause of someones defeat, nearly being hit by the one weapon that could defeat him (only not being defeated because it missed) and not knowing about a barrier that ruined everything for him"
There was no guarantee that weapon can defeat him rather than only harming him and once again, a few minor things won't change that, Nigh-Omniscience stays.

@DMB 1

  • "Bill's "Weirdness Manipulation" is just a form of Chaos Manipulation. There is no need to make it its own ability, just specify it."
I already just explained that Weirdness =/= Chaos & how they have 2 completely different definitions.

  • "Bill doesn't manipulate the possibility of weirdness, but makes weird things happen, which in itself is Chaos Manipulation. Besides, Chaos is weird."
Technically yes, Bill Cipher as inducing Weirdness will lead to/cause Chaos, not become Chaos (clear difference). Is "Chaos = Weirdness" becoming a common misconception at this point or....?
 
Lightbuster30 said:
Do I really need to be the guy to point out that the whole point of nigh-omniscience is to know everything but a few things?
Click to expand...
There is a pont where a few is a few too many, like every loss of his is due to lack of knowlege
 
The only description you gave for werdness is covered by chaos manipulation, it affects reality and the natural and supernatural laws.
 
Serizsly, he didnt know:

-while possesing dipper that he was going to be tickled and the lack of stamina(and him not knowing it due to not having been in a body for a long time does not help the case)

-The barrier around gravity falls.

-the barrier around the mistery shack

-the weakness of the mecha mistery shack

-the fact that sixer was going to shoot him (even if the gun doesnt work, he did not know he was about to be shot)

-he believed gideon would sucseed at killing him

-the statues that once were humans being conscius or not

-how to destroy the barrier.

-the fact that dipper would get into mabels bubble, or that he would resist the temptation

- he forgot that he couldnt read sixers mind

-he was unawere of the creation of the mecha shack, that it was attacking and his minions unability to defeat it

-that gideon stopped dancing
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
The only description you gave for werdness is covered by chaos manipulation, it affects reality and the natural and supernatural laws.
Click to expand...
Inducing Weirdness ----> Allows him to cause Chaos, warp Reality, affect Natural laws, and the supernatural. Without that, all of those feats wouldn't be possible, so yea.
 
@Ricsi

"And inducing chaos allows to create weirdness."

Its the other way around, inducing Weirdness causes/lead to Chaos and Weirdness was originally first before anything else that occurred in Gravity Falls dude.
 
That is such bad logic.

We are not talking about lore here, we are talking about the skill, what they call it is completly non important, its how it acts that decides whenever or not it is one skill or the other. It works like chaos, it has the same effects, and weirdness has no page on the wiki.
 
@Ricsi

  • "-while possesing dipper that he was going to be tickled and the lack of stamina(and him not knowing it due to not having been in a body for a long time does not help the case)"
An exception since he obviously just stated that he has never been in a body over a long time before that happened.

  • "-The barrier around gravity falls."
k.

  • "-the barrier around the mistery shack"
k.

  • "-the weakness of the mecha mistery shack"
If he didn't know that, then he would have never been able to eventually find a way to beat it all by himself.

  • "-the fact that sixer was going to shoot him (even if the gun doesnt work, he did not know he was about to be shot)"
Bill Cipher can always regenerate but ok.

  • "-he believed gideon would sucseed at killing him"
No way would Bill Cipher believe something like that.

  • "-the statues that once were humans being conscius or not"
Irrelevant.

  • "-how to destroy the barrier."
k.

  • "-the fact that dipper would get into mabels bubble, or that he would resist the temptation"
Not relevant to him.

  • "-he forgot that he couldnt read sixers mind"
Bill Cipher let his guard down.

  • "-he was unawere of the creation of the mecha shack, that it was attacking and his minions unability to defeat it"
Bill Cipher was focusing on other matters.

  • "-that gideon stopped dancing"
Irrelevant.

Like I said, only a few things he did know and regardless, some of Bill Cipher Intelligence feats cancels it out, so yea.
 
Magi Hussie said:
Technically yes, Bill Cipher as inducing Weirdness will lead to/cause Chaos, not become Chaos (clear difference). Is "Chaos = Weirdness" becoming a common misconception at this point or....?
Click to expand...
Yes, because weirdness is something subjective. Creating weird things is not weridness manipulation because people find them weird. It's like sayinh that if I can create beautiful things, I can manipulate beauty. And not everyone can find the things he creates to be weird.

It can be considered Chaos Manipulation beacuse that stuff is completely out of the ordinary, and random things happen.
 
Magi, the importance of those things in verse is not the point, its the fact that the amaunt of things he didnt know, both in the past like how gideon stopped dancing or the mecha shack was created, the present like stan and ford changing attires or the barriers, and the future (everything in here) makes it an absolute wank to say he know nearly everything ecxept a very few amaunts of things
 
@DMB 1

  • "Yes, because weirdness is something subjective. Creating weird things is not weridness manipulation because people find them weird. It's like sayinh that if I can create beautiful things, I can manipulate beauty. And not everyone can find the things he creates to be weird."
Wow...I'm not surprised that its becoming a common misconception now (sigh).

Anywho, like I said from before, inducing Weirdness will induce Chaos and not only does it cause that but also defies logic & Bill Cipher manipulates it as a form of energy.

  • "It can be considered Chaos Manipulation beacuse that stuff is completely out of the ordinary, and random things happen."
Chaos occurs because a wave of weirdness spread throughout the town of Gravity Falls, so yea.
 
Everyone satisfied? I cant have that!


What is the point of linking reality warping with weirdness, if he already has reality warping?
 
Chaos is much closer to it, and if the wiki ha no page for it then it should be described in notable attacks section instead
 
@Ricsi Okay, since that is settled and fine with everyone (hopefully), we all can now discuss the final list of abilities left for Bill Cipher.
 
How about we just rate Bill's intellect as "extremely high", supergenius or vastly superhuman? He has retrocognition, or whatever you call viewing the present. Which would explain why he misses details, despite knowing things.
 
@Lightbuster I already stated & explained which level of intellect should Bill Cipher get and Retrocognition is viewing the past.
 
Re-pasting this.

So once again, here's the final list of things needed to be discussed as I previously mentioned earlier:

  • Limited Energy Creation and Manipulation (Creates and manipulates energy made out of pure weirdness & spreads a wave of it throughout the town of Gravity Falls; Created energy bubbles of pure madness)
  • Bill Cipher embodying a mathematical form since, by technicalities, he is made up by mathematical probability based on the amount of info. found about him since he is implied to contain numbers inside his body & geometrically-shaped as well.
  • Conceptual Perception and Possible Conceptual Creation according to @The real cal's explanation under Conceptual Manipulation
  • Likely Death Inducement (If Stanford & Stanley had not stopped Bill Cipher, he would have killed Dipper and Mabel instantly with a single snap of his fingers)
  • More justification to add to his age is that he's older than Time itself
  • I think Bill Cipher should have Type 6 Immortality when making deals since he basically takes over the bodies of his victims by transferring his consciousness into them and has control over their bodies for as long as he wants should he leave his physical form/his physical form be destroyed. The only way to get "rid" of his type 6 immortality is a person who will sacrifice their mind + Mind Wipe/Destruction or any other similar method.
  • Disintregatio with Lasers (He vaporized Time Baby and reduced him to molecules)
  • Remove Intangiblity for True form/Physical Bill Cipher as he never displayed Intangibility throughout Weirdmageddon Part 1, 2, and 3 whatsoever.
  • Petrification (Turned one of the deputies in Gravity Falls into stone)
 
  • Retrocognitio Yes


  • 'Nightmare Inducement + Xenopyschic Reality Warping Yes
  • Telecommunication Manipulation Yes
  • Limited Energy Creation seems wrong, they do not act as energy and are covered by chaos manipulation, and he himself simply describes them as balls of pure madness, not energy.
  • Bill Cipher embodying a mathemathical form is a okey
  • Conceptual Perception and Possible Conceptual Creation seems alright.
  • Likely Death Inducement is technicaly right.
  • I think Bill Cipher should have Type 6 immortality is debatable. He was forced to leave dippers body by running out of stamina alone.
  • Durability Negation is a no, he did it through sheer ap, which is why he has the ap for the restricted form at all.
  • Remove Intangiblity for True form/Physical is a yes.
  • Petrification should be simply transmutatipn, as he has used it for many other things other than petrification.
 
@Ricsi

  • "Limited Energy Creation seems wrong, they do not act as energy and are covered by chaos manipulation, and he himself simply describes them as balls of pure madness, not energy."
Its treated as a form of energy since Bill Cipher created an omnidirectional energy wave made out of weirdness, so it can be considered as Limited Energy Creation to an extent and speaking of creating bubbles made out of pure madnrss should better off be linked under Madness Manip. since I just noticed that we have a page like that.

  • "Durability Negation is a no, he did it through sheer ap, which is why he has the ap for the restricted form at all."
Using normal lasers should not be able to destroy your molecules dude.

  • "Petrification should be simply transmutatipn, as he has used it for many other things other than petrification."
Turning someone to stone is Petrification and we havre a page for that.
 
Energy manipulation is completly redundanty its like giving someone heat manipulation for making fire, then give fire manipulation as well.

Using low 2C lasers does do that tough, and that iant a laser, or not what we define as it. It sure as hell isnt condensataed light damaging through sheer heat. But if it isnt AP, then the tier of restricted bill would be downgraded.

Yes, but it is absolutly redundant, and he transformed for into gold anyways.
 
@Edward & @Ricsi Mb, I was confusing Durability Negation with something else by mistake. I really meant to say was that Bill Cipher's lasers are Disintregration beams.

@Ricsi

  • "Energy manipulation is completly redundanty its like giving someone heat manipulation for making fire, then give fire manipulation as well."
That's basically why I mentioned Limited Energy Creation.

  • "Using low 2C lasers does do that tough, and that iant a laser, or not what we define as it. It sure as hell isnt condensataed light damaging through sheer heat. But if it isnt AP, then the tier of restricted bill would be downgraded."
Read my response to Edward.

  • "Yes, but it is absolutly redundant, and he transformed for into gold anyways."
You must have misinderstood when I said "one of the deputies" not "Standford" that Bill Cipher turned into stone.
 
@Ricsi

  • "Limited or not, its still redundant."
Doesn't matter, Limited Energy Creation stays as that's mainly the only applicable category that works the best for that specific feat.

  • "Still redundant."
Pointless to continue arguing this response since Bill Cipher objectively displayed Petrification on one of the deputies during Weirdmageddon, so nothing is changing that and I'm done with answering this 2nd response and the "back & forth" got to stop.
 
Bill having Energy manipulation and Prejectionisn't redundant because it's one of these powers that everyone has listed on their profiles, despite their tier.

By that logic, we shouldn't give him Superhuman Physical Characteristics either because it's redundant to give them to a 2-A... Even tough 1-As have them too.
 
I'm confused on how he would have Mind Manipulation without deals. Didn't Ford literally state that Bill couldn't invade his mind without making a deal first?
 
Inverted Tempest said:
I'm confused on how he would have Mind Manipulation without deals. Didn't Ford literally state that Bill couldn't invade his mind without making a deal first?
Click to expand...
Maybe it was the plate? He didn't need a deal to mess with Stan.
 
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