Big Hal Jordan Revision

[LordTracer]

Powers and Abilities

Hal's missing a few powers, and some of his powers don't have scans showing them. Let's fix that.

Added Scans
These powers are already on Hal's profile, but these are just some scans to justify them.

Teleportation

• Teleported himself and Arisia out of a police statio.
• Teleported himself, Oliver and Barry out of somewhere.
• Teleported Barry from his office to the airport. (This could also be added to his justification for BFR)

Telepathy

• Talks with John Stewart.
• Sends a message to Guy Gardner.
• Scans the minds of two other GLs.
• Does telepathic paperwork for the Guardians.

Healing (Low) - Heals a small wound on his leg.

Time Slow - Dilates time in order to choose a successor before his death.

Intangibility

• Flies through a window.
• Goes through a wall.
• And another wall.
• And even a hand.

Information Analysis

• Allows Barry Allen to see on the molecular level.
• Checks someone's vitals.
• Scanned an alien plant for toxins.
• Found a robot's weakness.
• Basically has an x-ray.
• Can see DNA structures.
• Can see down to the level of neurons of an atom.

Portal Creation - Made a portal to the antimatter universe.

Invisibility - Created a bubble that made him and Black Canary invisible.

Illusion Creation

• Makes a ghost image of himself.
• Changes his appearance.
• Does it agai.
• Makes hundreds of projections of himself.

Resistance to Mind Manipulation

• Makes barriers that defend against Martian Manhunter's mindhax.
• Resists Parallax's mindhax while other Green Lanterns can't.
• Fights against being probed by an old Guardia.

Resistance to Fear Manipulation - Helps Kyle Rayner break free of Parallax.

Powers
New powers that should be added.

Energy Projection - Do I really need to explain why a Green Lantern should have this power...?

Power Bestowal - Gives Wally West the powers of a Green Lanter.

Heat Manipulation - Mimics the heat of the su.

Fire Manipulation - Creates fire to disable Martian Manhunter.

Air Manipulation - Creates a fa.

Sound Manipulation - Turns off Arisia's voice.

Astral Projection - Projects himself to Fire and Ice.

Body Control - Seals his and Barry Allen's metabolisms.

Non-Physical Interaction and Statistics Amplification (via Absorption) - Gains power by absorbing a Guardian's Projection.

Sealing

• Seals Doctor Light in the Central Power Battery.
• Seals Parallax, albeit with help.

Creation and Wood Manipulation - Creates wooden bugs.

Water Manipulation - Makes a functional shower.

Mind Manipulation

• Implants suggestions to make warriors miss their shots.
• Puts a mental block on people.

Technology Manipulation - Projects a message through all TVs in Coast City.

Biological Manipulation - Reactivates a part of Hector Hammond's brain to make him feel pai.

Power Mimicry - Replicates the neural mind blasts he was just hit with.

Light Manipulation - Fires a burst of light from his ring.

Sleep Manipulation - Puts a crowd of people to sleep.

Fear Manipulation - Uses Superman's own fears against him.

Immortality (Type 4) and Resistance to Death Manipulation - Chooses to will himself alive.

Resistance to Transmutation - Fights back against having his body turned into that of a Guardia.

Resistance to Possession - Forces Jericho out of his body.

Resistance to Biological Manipulation - Briefly resists having his brain reprogrammed.

Tier Change
A Green Lantern's power hinges on their willpower, and they can become stronger or weaker depending on what level their willpower is operating at. Therefore, I propose Hal be given a Variable tier. This is because while he is normally portrayed at a 4-B level, he also has consistent showings at a 2-C level, which can be justified as him simply using more willpower. His 4-B justification should also be changed, as he has shown that he is superior to other GLs like Kilowog and John Stewart, as well as other DC heavy hitters.

Examples of 2-C Hal:

• He's fought off Parallax.

• Damaged Crispus Allen as a Black Lanter, doing more damage than the two Guardians present.

• His constructs briefly grappled with The Predator, an emotional entity like Io and Parallax.

• He briefly matched Parallax on his ow.

• Harmed Krona with the power of Io.

• Harmed Superboy-Prime.

• He can power the entire Blue Lantern Corps, including their Guardia. For context, two Guardians were able to split apart Parallax's essence, a single one made Darkseid forge a truce instead of attacking him, and Krona caught Parallax.

• He survived being tortured by all emotional entities simultaneously.

• He killed Krona.

• In Ion #4, Hal defeated Alexander Nero on his own, and in Ion #5, Nero was shown to be capable of catching a serious Ion's hand mid-swing, forcing his hammer out of his hand and then hitting him with it. Nero was also stated by Ion to be siphoning off his power, and his body withstood a powerful blast from Ion.

4-B justification change:

• He one-shot Kilowog.

• One-shot Amazo.

• Defeated Superma.

• Even while fatigued, and his ring not being at full power, he could match Captain Atom.

• One-shot Captain Atom.

• Stomped Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Captain Atom and The Ray.

• When some of Hal's leftover willpower was given form, it was able to solo the entire Justice League.

Speed
Some better scans and justifications. Hal is consistently portrayed as being on par with speedsters and faster than Superman type characters.

• Stops Barry Allen mid-ru.

• Catches Zoom immediately after he blitzes Superman and Wonder Woma.

• Moves at comparable speeds to Barry Alle.

• Stated by Jay Garrick to be faster than him.

• Blitzed Parallax Kyle with 0.5 percent of his power.

• Tagged Parallax Flash twice.

• Caught a speeding Superma.

Larfleeze
Larfleeze should be upgraded to 2-C.

• He stated that he trapped Ophidia, one of the emotional entities like Io and Parallax.

• The above statement is supported by Larfleeze being directly compared with Parallax.

• He overwhelmed the Guardians of the Universe on his ow, and one of his constructs could pin down a Guardia.

• He was able to match Kyle Rayner, even when he was amped by the Emotional Spectrum.

• Even with the help of a White Lanter and Guardians of the Universe, John Stewart was not confident in fighting Larfleeze.

Overall Proposals
The revised Hal.

Scaling
If this is accepted, I'd also need to revise Kilowog, Mogo the Living Planet, and Green Lantern (John Stewart) (Post-Crisis), as they shouldn't be noted as comparable to Hal.

 

[The_Impress]

I'll check the scans after a while, but are there explicit statements to support said variable tier?

 

[LordTracer]

Kyle says all Green Lantern Rings use willpower converted into energy, which is then amplified by the user's will.

 

[LordTracer]

Using the ring is also described as forcing your willpower through it.

 

[The_Impress]

But I find it problematic to believe that would imply Hal doesn't have a constant will, oh well

Additional scans are nice, but they should be descriptive of what they're showcasing, as such please add descriptions of thek within the OP?

 

[LordTracer]

Well, he has two consistent levels. Either 4-B (although the degree of 4-B varies sometimes) or 2-C.

Wahh I did that in the sandbox so I wouldn't have to do it here. Alright, give me a moment.

 

[LordTracer]

Done. I also added the scans that show how a GL's power varies to the OP.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I'm iffy about him varying from 4-B to 2-C via willpower. It seems similar to Hulk's anger, but we don't rate him as variable. I doubt they suddenly become 4-dimensional just because of will?

 

[LordTracer]

Well, wasn't there a revision to give Hulk a Variable tier? And while it doesn't particularly make logical sense (but then again, what does in DC?), it's consistent. Hal at his peak is shown to be on the same level as the likes of Ion, Parallax and the emotional entities on several occasions.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I suppose it should be fine, but was there a revision for Hulk?

 

[LordTracer]

There was. Efficient made it iirc.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I found it and commented on it, I have several issues with it unrelated to this, but I suppose this seems fine, although I still find it weird. Eh, it's DC.

 

[LordTracer]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

The new abilities seem fine.

Larfleeze being comparable to Ion and Parallax is fine.

I am very uncertain about making Hal 2-C though. It is commonplace in superhero comics to successfully fight characters far out of one's own weight class, and Hal has no feats of his own remotely approaching this scale as far as I am aware.

 

[LordTracer]

Well, if it helps, in Rebirth, Hal is stated to be the embodiment of will and the Guardians indirectly stated that he was comparable to him. So this is something that's consistent for Hal, and even carries over into new continuities.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. We need input from more knowledgeable members though:

Matthew Schroeder, Zensum, C2 of Omego, Eficiente, Qawsedf234, PrinceOfTheMorning, Sandman31, SuperAPM, ClassicNESfa, Firestorm808, Elizio33, FanofRPGs, Ultima Reality, Kepekley23.

 

[Firestorm808]

I'll cross-reference the feats with my timeline when I get off work.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you.

 

[Firestorm808]

Here's my evaluation on the first set of 2-C stuff from the OP:

• Green Lantern: Rebirth Vol 1 #4 March 2005
  • Hal only resists Parallax's Mind Manipulation and Possession.
• Green Lantern Vol 4 #50 March 2010
  • Unknown | Hal escapes (Crispus Allen) Black Lantern Spectre's grasp and knocks out Black Lantern Spectre's jaw to no effect. Several lanterns attack him to no real effect.
  • The Spectre's power eclipses everyone and the Guardians.
  • The Spectre is scared of Parallax.
• Green Lantern Vol 4 #58 November 2010
  • His constructs briefly grappled with The Predator
  • Even though they appear to grapple, there isn't any showcase of a serious attack like a slash, ram, or an energy attack.
  • I'm sure there are numerous characters who briefly grapple someone but not face a serious attack from the other being, so they don't scale reliably.
• Green Lantern: Rebirth Vol 1 #6 May 2005
  • Claim: He briefly matched Parallax on his ow.
  • Fact Check: 5 Green Lanterns use their rings, which are connected the A.I. on Oa, to tap into the Central Power Battery and send Parallax back there. Each of them absorbs a piece of Parallax into their rings and sends it to Oa.
  • Parralax with a host is 4-B, not 2-C
• Green Lantern Vol 4 #62 March 2011
  • Should not scale | Krona with Ion easily tanked all of Hal's willpower, but Hal was able to scratch Krona
• Infinite Crisis Vol 1 #7 June 2006
  • Should not scale | Hal makes Superboy-Prime flinch and takes a punch
  • Surviving 1 punch from Superboy-Prime or making him flinch shouldn't make someone on par with him.
  • Ion (Sodam Yat, Green Lantern Corps Vol 2 #17 December 2007 ) bloodily fighting Superboy-Prime is fighting on par. | Green Lantern Corps Vol 2 #18 January 2008

 

[LordTracer]

1) Considering the Guardians stated that it nearly eclipses their own, there isn't that much of a difference in power there. Also Hal very clearly harms it here. Plus he's shown as the only person capable of harming it.

2) Hal didn't just "make a construct in front of it..." his construct is very clearly grappling with The Predator.

3) The other four Lanterns get disabled (which is shown in the scan I gave), and Hal had to hold Parallax off on his own for a moment (which is also shown). Then everyone got back up and they sealed him. And Parallax with a 4-B host (apart from Sinestro) is 4-B, yes. When his host is a Guardian, which are 2-C, then logically it would still be a 2-C feat.

4) Why exactly should Hal not scale to his feat of harming Krona? Harming a 2-C is still 2-C. And just because Krona claims it's all of Hal's willpower doesn't really mean it is, especially when Krona is very clearly an arrogant character.

5) I never claimed Hal was on par with Superboy-Prime... I said he harmed him. Harming a 2-C is still a 2-C feat, especially when they're a really high-end 2-C, damn near a 2-B like SBP.

 

[LordTracer]

It should also be noted that Hal went toe-to-toe with Larfleeze during the Brightest Day event, and it seems to be agreed that Larfleeze is a 2-C.

 

[Firestorm808]

Part 2

• Green Lantern Vol 4 #57 October 2010
  • Larfleez didn't trap Ophidian. Ophidian states that Larfleeze was the only being in the universe capable of resisting his temptations, thereby allowing Larfleeze to subdue him and become Agent Orange.
• Green Lantern Vol 4 #40 May 2009
  • The above statement is supported by Larfleeze being directly compared with Parallax.
  • Larfleez contains a power comparable to Parallax, the Orange Entity. Keep in mind, this isn't his base power.
• Green Lantern: New Guardians Vol 1 #3 January 2012
  • one of his constructs could pin down a Guardia.
  • New 52
  • Pinning a guardian by surprise doesn't scale.
• Green Lantern: New Guardians Vol 1 #4 February 2012
  • He overwhelmed the Guardians of the Universe on his ow
  • New 52
  • He's using a guardian energy avatar. I forget how those work.
• Green Lantern: New Guardians Vol 1 #15 February 2013
  • He was able to match Kyle Rayner, even when he was amped by the Emotional Spectrum.
  • New 52
  • Using other lantern lights doesn't make Kyle 2-C. Is there any additional context?
• Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corps Vol 1 #12 March 2017
  • Even with the help of a White Lanter and Guardians of the Universe, John Stewart was not confident in fighting Larfleeze.
  • Rebirth
  • Considering that Ophidion is gone, Larfleez's max power would be weaker than in Post-Crisis but still has the main power battery.

 

[Firestorm808]

We don't have a rating for the Guardians of the Universe yet.

Atrocitus corrects the Guardian's pride that Black Lantern Spectre "does" eclipse him/her.

 

[LordTracer]

1) Where did Ophidian state this? And even if he did... pretty sure resisting the main power of an emotional entity on his own would still be a 2-C feat for Larfleeze.

2) Just read through issue #40 and #41, there was no mention of Ophidian or Larfleeze trapping an entity at all. So I'm kinda inclined to believe they were referring to Larfleeze himself.

3) I know we don't. They should be 2-C, as they imprisoned Parallax in Green Lantern Rebirth #3 and their collective energy matched Parallax's. I believe it was also stated that they matched Nekron in the beginning of the universe.

4) Meh, BL Spectre being above the Guardians just supports Hal being 2-C for being the only one capable of harming it.

 

[Firestorm808]

Just corrected the citation. For the majority of its existence, the Avarice Entity has been sealed within the Orange Lantern Central Power Battery. It entices and lures its wielder into coveting the battery more than anything else in existence, even life itself. Larfleeze was so greedy, he could resist Ophidian's mind manipulation and use the battery for his own greedy purposes. This isn't an AP feat.

The Guardians are alluding to what Larfleeze possessed which was Ophidian.

All the Lanterns fighting Black Lantern Spectre broke his flesh in one shape or form, but they all agree that nothing is working.

 

[LordTracer]

Okay, then Larfleeze shouldn't be 2-C.

They damaged his body, yes. But Hal actually harmed him, as staking him through the chest made Spectre scream in pain. Nothing was working in terms of putting him down (until Parallax), but Hal was still capable of causing it actual harm.

 

[Antvasima]

@Firestorm808

Thank you for helping out. What do you think that we should do here?

 

[Firestorm808]

We should get more input from the other knowledgeable members as well.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Imo you shouldn't scale Hal to Barry.

 

[LordTracer]

I asked ClassicNESFan and C2 for their input.

Although just to be clear, since you didn't respond to some of my points, does that mean you're fine with them?

 

[LordTracer]

Imo you shouldn't scale Hal to Barry.

Why not?

 

[Firestorm808]

The energy of a main power battery without an entity is at most Galaxy level, and the lanterns, including Hal, couldn't stop it individually.

• Green Lantern Vol 4 #25 January 2008
  • The energy of detonating the Yellow Power Battery and Warworld could destroy the entire Milky Way Galaxy.
  • All the surviving Green Lanterns needed to combine their energy to contain the explosion.

 

[LordTracer]

I... don't see why that's particularly relevant.

 

[Firestorm808]

It's arguing against 2-C Hal Jordan as he was one of the survivors.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Well, for one,he didn't react to this blitz from a serious Wally and Barry and it almost broke his ring .

 

[LordTracer]

It's arguing against 2-C Hal Jordan as he was one of the survivors.

That's only one feat though, against five examples of him being 2-C. And that same issue has the Guardians of the Universe, which are consistently shown to be beneath a peak Hal, being able to harm a 2-A, the Anti-Monitor. And unless I just missed it, there was no galaxy busting bomb that all the GLs had to stop.

Well, for one,he didn't react to this blitz from a serious Wally and Barry and it almost broke his ring .

Yeah, that's two speedsters at once. Hal's shown more than once to be capable of easily reacting to/scaling to a single speedster, whether that be Barry (even when amped), Zoom or Jay.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Eh, i'm still not to sure. What's Barry's casual speed rating?

 

[LordTracer]

The only feat of Barry himself on his profile is the attosecond reaction time thing.

 

[Firestorm808]

Sinestro Corps War had a weakened Anti-Monitor, and the Galaxy busting explosion was intentionally used to hurt said Weakened Anti-Monitor.

Can you elaborate on how the Guardians of the Universe are consistently shown to be beneath Hal?

 

[LordTracer]

The Guardians were able to harm him before that though, and other fodder Lanterns were fighting him long before that.

The BL Spectre thing, for one. Hal was the only one to cause it pain, and it was stated to be stronger than the Guardians there. He harmed Superboy-Prime, while a Guardian self-destructing only knocked SBP out of the universe. Sayd stated that Hal can power the entire Blue Lantern Corps, which should include him. And him harming Krona (a Guardian) + Ion.