Big Galactus CRT

[Antvasima]

No, just regular eternity

Okay. However, I think that scaling a character to Low 1-C for destroying a Low 2-C universe seems inherently misleading, especially as universal Eternity's true self was still shown as intact.

I disagree. Like why would Doc go to a dying eternity with barely any power and not the actual Eternity himself?

He has never had access to Multi-Eternity in the past. Also, it was explicitly stated that this was universal Eternity, as he (the universal consciousness) only had the knowledge of Doctor Strange himself after everybody else in the universe were consumed by Galactus.

Also Molecule Man explained earlier how they want the original hierarchy back. Everyone of them wanted it aside from Order and Chaos.

I don't remember that from the Ultimates storyline. Please show some scans.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, I think that Eficiente makes sense in his evaluations. Thank you for helping out.

 

[Confluctor]

Okay. However, I think that scaling a character to Low 1-C for destroying a Low 2-C universe seems inherently misleading, especially as universal Eternity's true self was still shown as intact.

I think you are misunderstanding what I am proposing here. I am merely adding a new key to Galactus' true form which would scale to other abstracts, downscaling from Eternity. Universal Eternity

Also, it was explicitly stated that this was universal Eternity, as he (the universal consciousness) only had the knowledge of Doctor Strange himself after everybody else in the universe were consumed by Galactus

Afterwards, yes. That was just from the memory of strange. But before that, it was most definitely a multiversal. Again, this eternity was dying. In the same issue, I think at the start, it was said that most of him was already gone. So how would Doc strange, knowing that eternity is pretty much dead, go to him and ask for help? It just doesn't add up for me.

In addition, a universe is used far toooooo often as a synonym of multiverse. Considering they also mention all of existence meaning multiverse + it's higher phases... I honestly don't know what else to tell you... All I am saying is, remove the TLT from Eternity's justification, nothing else. Or add a note that he was only part of him because the hierarchy wasn't set in stones. That was what the whole arc was about + the involvement of TOAA.

Also doesn't matter if he didn't have access to it before, he does now. Plus he isn't accessing him, he just set up a meeting with him because all of existence was going to end if he wasn't stopped. It was threatening the entire multiverse.

I don't remember that from the Ultimates storyline. Please show some scans.

I am on a phone and Imgur is being absolute shit. I will get 8t when I am on a pc

In the meantime, if you have time, just scroll to the bottom and you will find it.

 

[Confluctor]

Anyway can you please call some Marvel supporters here? This has been around for a long time and barely any input.

 

[Antvasima]

I think you are misunderstanding what I am proposing here. I am merely adding a new key to Galactus' true form which would scale to other abstracts, downscaling from Eternity. Universal Eternity

Okay, and what statistics do you want specifically? Considering that Galactus has to absorb power to the point of self-destruction to reach universal Eternity's level, it seems unreliable to me to give him anything except a variable tier.

Afterwards, yes. That was just from the memory of strange. But before that, it was most definitely a multiversal. Again, this eternity was dying. In the same issue, I think at the start, it was said that most of him was already gone. So how would Doc strange, knowing that eternity is pretty much dead, go to him and ask for help? It just doesn't add up for me.

Again, that is not at all how the story presented the matter. We did not suddenly switch between multiversal and universal Eternity between panels. That would not make any sense, even if Mark Waid's story may not have been entirely rational/plot hole free. My apologies, but I am not going to accept this.

In addition, a universe is used far toooooo often as a synonym of multiverse. Considering they also mention all of existence meaning multiverse + it's higher phases... I honestly don't know what else to tell you... All I am saying is, remove the TLT from Eternity's justification, nothing else. Or add a note that he was only part of him because the hierarchy wasn't set in stones. That was what the whole arc was about + the involvement of TOAA.

Al Ewing very firmly established that the Living Tribunal is an inner function to properly maintain multiversal Eternity, as a part of his immune system, regardless if we like it or not. Anything beyond that is fanon.

Also doesn't matter if he didn't have access to it before, he does now. Plus he isn't accessing him, he just set up a meeting with him because all of existence was going to end if he wasn't stopped. It was threatening the entire multiverse.

That is also fanon, as far as I am aware. Galactus had already consumed a single universe and self-destructed as a consequence, but nothing was stated about that the process would continue far beyond that scale.

I am on a phone and Imgur is being absolute shit. I will get 8t when I am on a pc

In the meantime, if you have time, just scroll to the bottom and you will find it.

I will check.

 

[Antvasima]

It took too long to read through 203 scans. My apologies.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway can you please call some Marvel supporters here? This has been around for a long time and barely any input.

Okay. I am not sure if it is necessary though.

@Zensum @C2_of_Omegon @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @LuciferDC099 @Newendigo @Ehnkr2beboh @Tllmbrg @Deagonx @Elizio33 @LordTracer @The_Impress @Planck69 @MarvelFanatic119

Would you be willing to help out here please?

 

[Confluctor]

Okay, and what statistics do you want specifically?

I want to add a base Galactus key, like for his energy and conceptual self. Which will downscale from Eternity meaning 2A, likely low 1-C


I will get back to the other points later

 

[Antvasima]

Base Galactus can go as low as 5-B when hungry enough. We cannot scale his raw power from his relationship with Eternity, especially as his absolute peak was most recently defined as destroying a single universe, and this was a self-destruction move.

 

[Confluctor]

Base, as in his Conceptual/energy self/HIS TRUE SELF - whatever else you can call it. The same one that survived the 6th multiverse, and then now the eight one - as Franklin (History of MU).


KEYS: TRUE SELF | NORMALLY VARIES FROM 4-B TO 2-A | LIFEBRINGER

or if you want him at tier 5, I honestly don't have a problem against it. At his weakest he is extremely weak.

 

[Antvasima]

But he doesn't have a higher tiered true self. He is entirely dependent on how much power he has absorbed at any given time.

Also, we should preferably get rid of his Lifebringer statistics. The form did not last for particularly many comic book issues in terms of appearances, and it has far too contradictory power level showings.

 

[Confluctor]

I don't personally care for statistics. A lot of them are absolutely shit anyway. I am just here for abilities and adding a proper keys. Put him at tier 9. Problem solved.

Anyway, yes, he does have a true form. As the energy being. His physical shell is there isn't to contain the energies. It's been mentioned in crap ton of comics.

The Galactus energy, which imbued with Galan and then now Franklin, is his/it's true form.


Also the scaling for his true self comes from existing in overspace alongside other cosmic abstracts who resides there - Warlock and Infinity Watch for example

 

[Malomtek]

But he doesn't have a higher tiered true self. He is entirely dependent on how much power he has absorbed at any given time.

And yet Galactus is still put on par with the lower abstracts generally, existing in, traveling through, and interacting with the various extradimensional realms of the Marvel cosmics, meaning that his variances in power might just have nothing whatsoever to do with what Galactus essentially is at his core.

 

[Antvasima]

My apologies, but we cannot scale him from simply being allowed to use M-bodies from the dimension of manifestations, without any actual feats of the level that you suggest, and I am not sure if he has even ever been shown in overspace, and our standards have traditionally been to not automatically scale characters from their surrounding environment. Also, if his unleashed energy self after being killed was only powerful enough to become a star, that is not very impressive.

In addition, his "physical" body (technically made of energy) is his true self as far as I am aware. It is simply perceived differently by different species.

 

[Confluctor]

His true self was literally said to be that energy... That time Doom took his power, that's where it began and it has never been contradicted. If anything, it has been added upon soo many times...

 

[Confluctor]

To save time for everyone (because I honestly do not want to waste anymore unproductive time on this thread, its already reaching its limits), how about this:

Keys: True self (Unknown) | Normally (Varies from 4-B to 2-A) | Lifebringer (Low 1-A)


Because his true self definitely needs a key. It's an important aspect of the character.

 

[Antvasima]

Again, I apologise, as you are usually a helpful member, but his true self is a far too vague concept for us to feature and define it properly, and the Lifebringer key should preferably be removed due to a very limited number of appearances and too contradictory power showcases.

 

[Confluctor]

It's fine, remove the life bringer one, but I failing to understand how his true self is a vague concept. In his real form, he is an incorporeal entity without a physical form that must passes on to the next to make sure there is a Galactus in that universe (See HOMU, also Thanos 2003 #3 or 4 as they explain it and F4 600 I believe).

When his physical form dies, he returns to his incorporeal form and becomes that energy once again. Sometimes he recreates his body (as it happened after Devourer mini) and other times it goes into someone else (e.g. Franklin).


Let me explain it further: the Galactus energy - aka his real form essentially - is something created by Eternity to make sure a Galactus exists in every universe which is why he is a multiversal constant. He needs to exist or else multi eternity could die because of the abraxas infection. This was explained by Roma in the same arc.

In Hickman's F4 (600 I believe), Galactus himself went on to explain the process in details. How he was born, how he is going to die and someone else will become Galactus thus replacing him, his power and position. In HOMU, that someone was Franklin.


There is also instance where Galactus leaves his physical shell and meets Eternity in the Overspace in his true form. While his physical form can go to Overspace and speak to Eternity, Galactus took his real form because the circumstances called for it.

 

[Confluctor]

Also I would recommend against deleting the Lifebringer key. If you dislike the statistics of it so much, just lower it to 2A - upscaling from his peak self on the wiki.

Lifebringer is an extremely important part of the character and history.

 

[Antvasima]

I am just saying that Mark Gruenwald defined Galactus as a purely physical entity that was prominent enough to be allowed to use M-bodies at times anyway, and he has not been able to resurrect himself without outside help when his physical body has been killed. Also, a true self has never been explicitly defined within the comic books themselves.

As for the Lifebringer, I think that our current standards for Marvel and DC Comics are that a certain power-up form needs to have 15 appearances as a minimum to be featured within the wiki, and it went from being comparable to Ego and Celestials to defeating Chaos and Order, or somehow containing the sentience of the previous multiverse, even though there is a different version of Galactus in every universe, which doesn't make any sense. However, if you have suggestions for how to justify better scaling, feel free to mention them.

 

[Confluctor]

am just saying that Mark Gruenwald defined Galactus

Well Grunewald did a lot of things which later went through a change. Plus this change doesn't 10000% contradict his from what I remember. We don't have to like a lot of them, but unfortunately this is what the comics are.

15 appearances as a minimum

Not necessarily. We established that they can stay if they have been featured in comcis for more than a year and his is well over 3 years. Plus he appeared in more than 15 issues from what I remember. He appeared in Ultimates Vol 3 and 4, Silver Surfer, Infinity War countdown, Squirrel Girl (for 5 issues) and one or two more appearances here and there.

 

[Antvasima]

Well Grunewald did a lot of things which later went through a change. Plus this change doesn't 10000% contradict his from what I remember. We don't have to like a lot of them, but unfortunately this is what the comics are.

I obviously agree about contradictions, but this does not negate my other points.

Not necessarily. We established that they can stay if they have been featured in comcis for more than a year and his is well over 3 years. Plus he appeared in more than 15 issues from what I remember. He appeared in Ultimates Vol 3 and 4, Silver Surfer, Infinity War countdown, Squirrel Girl (for 5 issues) and one or two more appearances here and there.

Okay, but his power level was still all over the place, which makes him impossible to tier properly, and supposedly containing the sentience of the 6th multiverse does not make any logical sense, as I detailed earlier.

 

[Confluctor]

For Lifebringer, even at his weakest, he should scale above his fully fed self. At his lowest, he was holding off the end of a singular eternity from the start to the end, I don't think it needs to be deleted. It's too important of a key to just get rid of.

 

[Confluctor]

Anyway, as I said earlier, I am not here for statistics. Just for the abilities and keys. If the statistics are such a big problem, then someone else can make a thread about it.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the abilities that have been accepted above can propably be applied. The key for his ill-defined "true self", not so much, and the Lifebringer should probably get unknown statistics, due to being comparable to Ego and the Celestials in one moment and beating Chaos and Order or supposedly containing a multiverse (even though there is a different Galactus in every universe) in the next.

 

[Confluctor]

...........


Honestly, I don't have much time these days to keep repeating myself, so I will leave that for a different CRT. Because it's an important aspect of the character whether it's liked or not.

Anyway, you are missing crucial context about the Lifebringer feats, but again, I neither have interest nor time to argue statistics.


But sure, I will apply these accepted abilities later when Efi and I come to a proper conclusion.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for being reasonable.

 

[Confluctor]

Right, I forgot about this.

Bump

 

[Confluctor]

Bump

Two months in CRT hell, can we end this now

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the abilities that have been accepted above can propably be applied. The key for his ill-defined "true self", not so much, and the Lifebringer should probably get unknown statistics, due to being comparable to Ego and the Celestials in one moment and beating Chaos and Order or supposedly containing a multiverse (even though there is a different Galactus in every universe) in the next.

This seems to have been what I accepted previously.

 

[Confluctor]

Only if you clearly ignore all context, then yes.


But I just want to focus on the abilities for now. Statistics, I no longer care about

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. You can apply the abilities then.

I still think that we should give Lifebringer Galactus unknown statistics though, as he does not make any coherent sense.

 

[Confluctor]

He does context wise, I reread the stuff and it makes all the sense. The only one that doesn't is the Moon Girl arc

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I find his power level way too contradictory in that storyline, and the plot point of him containing the sentience of the previous multiverse does not make any sense given that there is a different Galactus in every universe and that his preceding stories had him contain the sentience of the previous universe.

 

[Confluctor]

I mean it was explained by the fact that everything is new in this multiverse. He acts similarly to Eternity himself, just slightly weaker. And in the eight multiverse we haven't even seen alt reality versions yet.

And his power levels were fine considering the context of the story.

 

[Westcoast5005]

I don't see any reason to put Galactus at unknown.

 

[Confluctor]

Can we not discuss statistics here, please? Let's just stick to abilities.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the abilities that were accepted above can probably be applied.

However, given that we have given the Lifebringer such a ridiculously exaggerated power level, that he has not displayed anything remotely approaching such a scale in practice, with several feats of an enormously lower scale, that the rationalisations for his statistics do not make any sense in the first place, and that the storyline he appeared in made even less sense in general, with Black Panther defeating the Logos being one of the most glaring examples, it is one of the most annoying profile pages in the entire wiki for me. I strongly want the Lifebringer statistics either removed or placed at unknown.

 

[Confluctor]

Leaving that aside, we haven't come to a proper conclusion regarding the abilities. A clear cut teleportation feat is being disregarded as something else for whatever reason

Also I need the other abilities evaluated

 

[Antvasima]

Can you post the abilities that still need to be evaluated here please?