Big boy revisions for Xenoblade

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I did say I wanted to wait for Ultima and Everlasting's Xenogears/Xenosaga revisions before the thread was made, because that's another verse with a super complex cosmology; It has Tier 1 characters for instance. And many important terminologies from that verse are pretty important to consider to carry over to the spiritual successor. But right now, we're in the middle of Final Fantasy stuff.

They can't be the same timeline because Zanza's statement, I will then create a new world! Just as I have done many times before would imply he destroyed and recreated his own universe multiple times. Which are also Space-Time Transitions similar to what the Conduit does albeit singular universe this time. There's also the fact that Zanza ruled over Xenoblade 1's universe for "Countless millennia" where as Xenoblade 2's universe is only one milenium. It shows the different universes have time that works differently.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

If we're waiting for other revisions then I guess just do that and debate 2-C when that comes around.

 

[Kepekley23]

Whether I played the game or not is irrelevant to my input. I can plainly take a look at the scans you give and see they aren't what you're trying to upgrade the characters to. Guess whenever someone tries to upgrade an obscure foreign light novel to 1-A or High 1-B or something (common event in this wiki), we need to go and buy said light novel and read it in its entirety before giving input. Not.

And no, endless is not 2-A.

Meanings of endless:

• having or seeming to have no end or limit; if something is endless, it seems to never finish cause it is so long

• (synonymous) numberless, innumerable

It isn't the same as infinite by default. It is prone to exaggeration. Xenoverse wasn't accepted with the same quote for the exact same reason; because "endless" is only considered 2-B, not because of some made-up "hyperbole" condition that I never saw mentioned in any thread.

We never accept dimensions or worlds to be High 3-A based off of them being called "unending" or "endless", only straight-up "infinite"; there is no reason for an "endless" multiverse to be 2-B, either.

> Bravely Default is also 2-A based on this

The word "infinite" is outright used in there.

 

[Kepekley23]

Also, continuously reaffirming that it's 2-C and that it created two universes at once without any evidence doesn't constitute as arguing. Your scans plainly show it being a single universal reset.

 

[Thatsafloridathing]

Ok... well what about some of the other stuff I mentioned in the op? Like spatial manipulation for Shulk and Zanza along with fate manipulation for Zanza as well as time stop for Alvis and time stop resistance for Shulk.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'll make a giant post elaborating the details eventually.

 

[Thatsafloridathing]

Bump?

 

[Spinoirr]

Bump

 

[Thatsafloridathing]

Another bump. Also forgot to add, could Zanza and Meyneth's souls possibly have higher-dimensional existence or non-corporeality?

 

[Bware1]

Have a small question it was discussed in Shulk's match against Persona's Joker that the Xenoblade Scaling chain was roughly

Shulk=Alvis>Zanza with his & Meynth's Monado's >or=The Architect>Rex=Pneuma>Malos with Artifice Aion>Zanza & Meynth's Souls=Baseline is this correct?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Bware, Zanza with Meyneth's Monado would be at least twice as strong as Zanza + Meyneth's souls individually yes. The Architect is roughly equal so Zanza's soul given their half of the same person. But Pneuma, Artifice Aion and Architect yes. Shulk is above Zanza with Alvis technically being above Shulk given he's literally the true Monado.

And, I'm only about 1/3rd of my way of righting my ultimate post, but I do have a bunch of scans in which some might lead to upgrades in other areas as well.

 

[Bware1]

Well Lady Meynth's Soul goes on to possess Fiora who is capable of weilding her Monado and fighting against Zanza on equal ground prior to Zanza killing her and taking it for himself. Could Fiora get a seperate key or a possibly higher key in that case? As for your Ultimate post is this strictly Ap related or does this include hax? There are a few notable haxes that the cast could get as well outside of what was posted here.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Technically, Fiora was being possessed by Meyneth; it wouldn't quite make Fiora Universal as it would only apply to Meyneth's power. And Meyneth was stomped at that time period because she has gotten much weaker at that point in time. But her true self has still fought evenly with Zanza many times before the game began. And there's plenty of stuff in my draft; there may be stuff that boost speed and hax depending on context. One statement references Zanza and Meyneth battling "Before time began".

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Alright, I haven't quite covered everything, but it's been long enough. And I've hopefully covered everything that needs to be covered so far, clarified everything that's been brought up to far, and pretty much found even more new information that might change everything. But let's get to the chase.

The Cosmology

Endless has more than one definition like many common words, and even has Infinite, Immortal, Eternal, and Limitless as synonyms. Using a special dictionary that narrow-mindedly hammers in the ground one definition is quite selfish tbh, and also kinda racist . And the definition got updated and now has more than one definition. One of which does mean "never-ending" right before the "Seemingly never ending". And if you scroll down to the Thesaurus section, infinite and limitless are the first synonyms on the list. The much more mainstream dictionary also says the same thing and has infinite as one if its first synonyms. Also, I vaguely recall someone mentioning Endless might be a mistranslation and that the original Japanese version outright says Infinite. I'd look for one with Japanese subtitles if I could find one, but I do hear the word Mugen in this video it sounds like he says "Mugen no heiretsu jikü uchü ga sonzai suru". (þäíÚÖÉ Mugen) outright means infinite. I may be mishearing things, nor am I a translater, but I can let better translators be the judge of that. But if I'm wrong, I can concede with 2-B as opposed to 2-A. Unless Xenosaga has more elaboration for being bigger than that. And guess what, Xenoblade also uses the word Infinite for the number of possibilities, making the definition of Endless less relevant. Which is again, the exact same reason Chrono Trigger/Cross is 2-A. The Architect also outright calls different worlds or universes "Alternate Possibilities," which not only indicates they're Space-Times, but also is consistent with Fiora saying Infinite Possibilities. Again, there is 100% undeniable proof that there is indeed more than one universe being affected by the Conduit if you've actually studied the entire lore of both games. Saying, "It's only a single universe affection" is the typical amateur statement by someone who's only looked at one source and not the other. There's obvious details of the two universes being separate space-times if you look at the in depth backstories of both halves of Klaus/Zanza/The Architect. First of all, the same video of Architect mentioning "Endless Universes", he mentions his body being split and his other half living on in some "Alternate Dimension". And there will be more on that in a later paragraph, but first. Also 6:14-6:29, it's stated "The Monodo was wielded by the Bionis against the Mechonis before time bega." The Bionis and the Mechonis were already established as being the physical embodiment of Zanza and Meyneth, so... There's also the fact that Zanza states the Universe was born from the Chaos of Creation, in case you were still skeptical about the current ratings. Chaos of creation meaning this, as well as one of the primary justification for Di, Farore, and Nayru's tiers and speed ratings; especially if that on top of the "before time began" statement implies they moved in the Chaos predates time as well as created the time of their universe, since time exists now when it didn't before hand. Going back to Memory Space, there's actually other details. I know this is a repeat from the previous thread but I will be using this video again to explain in further detail. Though, I'll be noting other things and it will upgrades in different areas, but it would still be a back up detail for any potiential statistics upgrades regardless of the interpretation. So Alvis's avatar is speaking to Shulk in Memory Space. He mentions that "This world" cannot exist without Zanza and/or Meyneth. He also says "This is the Passage of Fate, and your visions." So while we're back to saying that Memory Space Is the Passage of Fate. There was already scans from the previous thread stating that "Everything is dictated by the Passage of Fate". This grants him Omnipresent wide Fate Manipulation for sure. "Existing Outside the Passage of Fate" is definately qualifying their Type 2 Acausality ratings. As even those who see the Past, Present, and Future on an Omnipresent scale cannot see Shulk's future. Zanza and Meyneth have also lived despite multiple space-time resets. Memory Space is also uneffected no matter how many times Zanza and Meyneth have created and destroyed many worlds. There's a link two paragraphs below about "Zanza creating a new world many times before." So it's obvious that Memory Space appears to exist outside the Space-Time Continuem. Memory Space is also clearly Universe sized as describedThere are three main possibilities for what Memory Space could be; it could be a Timeless Void which would be a back up justification for Infinite speed as well as the "Before Time began" and "Born from the Chaos of Creation" statements. There's also the possibility of being an alternate Universe/Timeline altogether; which would make Shulk's final destruction feat a 2-C feat which is consistent with Zanza's durability feat explained in further detail below. Or the most controversal/assumptive is it being on a plane of higher infinity. Definately not going to go with that here, but I'll get to that later. But one last thing, remembered above when Zanza states, "The Memory of a God's Existence, Born from the Chaos of Creation. It is, vanishing." Apparently he may have also been refering to Memory Space when he said "Chaos of Creation." This could be another indication of Memory Space's status of being a Universe/Timeline. The Land of Challenge is also a DLC place stated to exist in a different universe from Alrest and the World of the Bionis. Rex and Shulk were able to meet via traveling through time and space. Land of Challenge basically plays a role similar to that of Battle Nexus from TMNT or Dissidia arena from Dissidia/Final Fantasy. And there's also an item that allows Shulk and Fiora to travel to Alrest. And there are multiple quotes from Shulk and Fiora referencing numerous plot highlights from the original Xenoblade, Fiora mentions is that she used to be mechanical; implying she's a human and that the Arena takes place after the battle with Zanza. But despite that, Shulk is still in his own Universe somehow even if Shulk and Fiora are with Rex fighting Artifice Aion. Time Paradox much? Just a recap about Fiora, she was once a Homs (Which are basically what humans from Bionis are called), but then she dies, and later gets ressurected as a Mecho (Basically a robot). And she doesn't ever get her human body back till after the end of the first game; and after Shulk "Resets the Universe". The fact that Shulk seems to act like he's been to the Mechonis during the Land of Challenge incident shows it would have to be late game Shulk. But the fact that Shulk wasn't expecting to have The Monado (Or at least a Monado Replica), and Fiora appearing human on top of that showcases this is Post Game Fiora and Shulk. this statement further proves this is post end game Shulk given he heard this statement. And this is obviously pre end game Rex given they're on the World Tree and above the Cloud Sea; both of which no longer exist in End Game Xenoblade 2 which is seen in one of the next pair of videos. Listen to this quote and this one back to back. That's Shulk's voice saying Today, we use our power to fell a God, and seize our destiny. So apparently, Shulk can exist in two different worlds at once. It make sense if their are two timelines, but not if there was only timeline. Because if a Mid Game Rex was able to meet Post game Shulk despite End Game Rex and End Game Shulk also going up against their final bosses at the same time; there's obiously some Space-Time Anomolies via existence of multiple timlines. For more info, the Nopon Archsage references "Different times" and states he's hundreds of millions times the age of Tora; implying he's billions of years old. Not that age is important, but Zanza and Architect have both simply said they were thousands of years old. Implying the Nopon Archsage could be older than Zanza and Meyneth; aka the two who reseted the Universe many times before. Meaning his place seems to clearly exist outside the space-time continuum of both their worlds. Otherwise, the Space-Time transition event that "Reset the Universe" would have effected him and his place as well. And I already explained above and was agreed on numerous threads prior to any you've ever taken part on that Shulk's Universe and Rex's Universe are different timelines. However, it doesn't change the fact that both universes were born from the same event which I will explain in a later paragraph. It may not be outright stated, but studying the entire cosmology of the multiverse and playing both games back to back on many corners comes to the conclusion that there was more than one Universe being effected by the Conduit's Space-Time Transition/Big Bang. Furthermore, while I haven't played Xenoblade Chronicles X; another "Spin off" entry in the series released before the second one but after the first one. So I don't have too much information and thus, don't have much to add for this section; but there are some more minor but interesting details about the cosmology here. But it also takes place in its own universe. This is shown when Elma is also introduced in the Land of Challenge. She mentions that her World is vastly different than Shulk's or Rex's; it has an intergalactic civilization for instance and fuctions more like a more tpyical Sci-Fi Universe and Xenosaga with many planets, stars, and galaxies unlike the Ancient Mythology like cosmology of Xenoblades 1 and 2. But back to the main topic, she's another drifter whom the Archsage lead to the Land of Challenge. It is mentioned that her physical self is still in her universe, but her conscious and essence have been teleported to the Land of Challenge. And then there's this item which allows Elma to travel to Alrest while her body remains in her own universe. And looking at a few XBX details, the Samaarians were stated to come from another Universe and there's also mention of a Space-Time Anomoly in that game. This also further hints different universes = different Space-Times; but I will have to take a look at that game at some point. Anyway, there are four main definitions of multiverse. I see the ones some people here have on their mind are Inflationary or Quantum multiverses for the 2-B Vs 2-A statement, or the Quilted Multiverse for the Low 2-C Vs 2-C statement. One problem right off the bat is that "Quilted Multiverses" are literally the least commo types of multiverses, at least whenever the world "Multiverse" is used. Dragon Ball Xenoverse would be inflationary as it's expanding endlessly thus approaching 2-A but is actually just massive degrees of 2-B. Dragon Ball Heroes/Xenoverse simply started with one Universe, but then others were born via time machines. However, Xenoblade is different. It's most likely the Brane Multiverse; Xenogears/Xenosaga is Brane for sure, and there will be a secion talking about the possible canon connections, but focusing on Xenoblade for this section. But unlike DB Xenoverse, that has no Omniscient creator God and instead just an initial creation that expands; Xenoblade Chronicles literally has an Omniscient "Creator of everything" God who created the Infinite number of possibilities in the first place. Meaning the entire multiverse was, is, and always will be 2-A structure solely because Alvis planned it as such. And each and every Universe is individually Low 2-C, thus creating/effecting two universes is 2-C. I'll share more details about Alvis' true purpose in a later paragraph. As some side notes, to prove the "endless sea" isn't a hyperbole for either games, this is the literal description on the game's offical advertisement. Alrest, a world with no surface, but an eternal sea of clouds, is inhabited by Titans. Eternal sea maybe have another excuse, but the fact that it outright says, "I world that has no surface" shows how truly massive it is. It's also consistent with the numerous statements in both games about their individual universes being boundless. It also outright says the World of the Bionis simply has, the Mechonis and the Bionis as the only land. And aside from that, it consists of a flat ocean and a "Boundless sky". It doesn't have a single planet and also has no Rex due to him living in another universe. Also, the link that shows Rex and Shulk meeting mentons how different and similar both worlds are. Continent to Planet sized Titans that people live on, "Infinite sized" Oceans/skies, a stationary Sun that just gets blocked rather than some kind of orbit one way or the other. All of that has been checked, but the most important thing is they both began from the same experiment and has "Half of Klaus" reining as their God; as well as the statements from Xenoblade One about Zanza fighting Meyneth "Before time began" and the that Universe being "Born from the Chaos of Creation". Also, look at this video again; see how after Klaus/Zanza describes the Conduit as a gift from a Divine Entity, Meyneth/Galea says, "The Conduit is nothing more than a Meta-Universe Manifold". This was a mistranslation as the Japanese version said "Multiverse Joint." She literally says the world "Multiverse"; no one uses that word unless the different Universes are Space-Time Continuems. Look at Dragon Ball Super, due to being a Quilted Multiverse, it never said Multiverse but simply "the World." Same with other Universes that have a living universe and multiple "Universe sized afterlifes" within a single timeline. Quilted Multiverses are never called multiverses due to the fact that they're not technically multiverses, but big universes. However, Xenoblade outright describes two or more universes being a Multiverse, indicating the different Space-Time continuems. Not to mention, Conduit being capable of "Giving birth to Universes" as well as "Space-Time Transition events". There's a bit more explination in this video outright confirming the same event gave birth to two "Alternate Realities". And while other wikis aren't the best source, it's also explained on this page. The origin of the world Multiverse even originated from Ancient Greek philosophies. Those who believe in "The Passage of Fate" are called Universalists, and those who believe in alternate possibilities are called Multiversalists. Which is the entire plot point behind Zanza and Meyneth. "There are as many universes as their are possibilities" and "Infinite possibilities exist". Statements like this are justifications for Chrono's 2-A ratings. And the fact that I gave out details about the Challenge arena and time paradoxes proves 100% that the different universes = alternate timelines. And this further elaborated when the Architect used, "World," "Dimension", "Universe", and "Alternate Possibility" in the same speech and used all those words as synonyms.

Alvis, The Monado, and The Conduit

I am Monado. I was here at the beginning. And I will proclaim the end. Basically him implying that he has no beginning or no end. And just a heads up, before the official title of the game was changed to Xenoblade, the original title was Monado: Beginning of the World. Which basically hints Alvis being the true "Creator of everything". He had no beginning despite the multiverse having one, and he is also literally the Monado. And Monado is derived from the Ghostic word Monad, which means supreme God or "Creator of everything". There's also the fact that the name Alvis is derived from the Old Norse word for "All Wise" and the german word "Allwissenheit" which means Omniscience. I know name isn't the best thing to use, but I'll get to the in depth details in later paragraphs. Now for some of the lore about the Monado's power, here are some primary points. The Monado is a divine sword capable of disturbing the very fabric of existence. Of both the material and the immaterial. There's been a lot of discussion in what "Fabric of existence" means; however, in the general consensious, it literally means "All existence". Made more apparent by this article. And Low 2-C is the baseline for "All existence" effecting feats. But if "Alternate realities" exist, it's of course higher than that. And since "Endless Universes" or "Infinite Possibililities" exist. It sounds more like 2-A. And even if you want to censor the word "Endless" as only being 2-B, that's still a massive upgrade, and "Infinite Possibilities" literally being treated a synonym for "Infinite Universes" or "Infinite Alternate Realities" between the Architect and Fiora makes it 2-A. This mentions that Shulk's Visions are the flow of ether and that Ether is the source of all existence. This could be interpreted that even Time is composed of Ether. It's pretty vague, but it's consistent with the Monado's multiple statements about having the power to effect all existence as well as being mentioned to be the source of all creation. The True Monado was also implied to be the same "Higher Power" that created the laws of causality. Given that "It was decided by a higher power for Shulk to understand the laws of causality." And that higher power happens to be Alvis, as he often talks about himself in 3rd person. Next up, we have the Conduit. Not much is given in game, other than the fact that every Blade and Artifice in Xenoblade Chronicles 2 gets their power from it. It's considered an Inter dimensional Power Source by the Architect. From a far flung dimension we can no nothing about. It's mentioned above the power comes from a "Divine Entity" by Professor Klaus, which most likely refers to Alvis. Given he's the primarily known thing to a supreme God. And Galea/Meyneth while in doubt of this, describes it as a Meta-Universe Manifold (Multiverse Joint in the Japanese version). It while it sounds more like a gateway, it's also a Perpetual Motion Machine. It can generate limitless amounts of energy from all time and space. And while that may seem vague, and the statement alone sounds like High 3-A at best. But it's still in impressive range feat and would lead to Unlimited stamina for the artifices. And it's already mentioned above, that it was the power source that caused the "Space-Time Transition event," the very same Big Bang that "Destroys the universe and creates a new one." That also sounds like Low 2-C ; however, it was mentioned above it not only gave birth to Shulk's world, but it also gave birth to Rex's Universe as well. I feel no need to repeat the details mentioned in Challenge Arena, but I will at least list each and every detail that happened in the next paragraph. First off, from "Meeting the Architect" video, we already know that it was a Space-Time transition. It destroyed and recreated the Universe according to Xenoblade 1's context. And the Zanza/Klaus and Galea/Meyneth were the only survivors. But Xenoblade Chronicles 2 revealed even more info on that matter. Zanza still survived, but his body was ripped in half, that's how the Architect exists alongside Zanza and Zanza was stated to live on in an alternate reality. The Architect remained to rebuild the destroyed Universe from the "Chaos". While his other half, Zanza as well as Meyneth lived on in the newly created Universe. As for everyone else, they either died completely, or were warped into other universes beyond the two mentioned universes, but it's stated the aforementioned ones are the only survivors. And Klaus and Galea were once regular humans, but they were also transformed into gods by the Conduit. So while there was initially one Universe involved and destroyed, it was 2 Universes given birth to between the existence of the Architect and Zanza being two halves of the same person split to become two gods of their own parallel universes. The Conduit is also said to be controlled by the Trinity Processor. Which consistes of the three Aegises: Ontos, Logos, and Pneuma. Pneuma is actually the true form of Pyra/Mythra, and Logos is actually Malos. There are theories that Ontos is Alvis given that Ontos was the Aegis said to have disappeared, but there is no confirmation and it's also mentioned above that Alvis could be much more than a Core Crystal; as he's secretly the true creator of the Multiverse as mentioned above. I'll elaborate more one what "Far Flung Dimension" means on the Xenosaga connections section, but for what it's worth. The Architect's Cosmic Awareness allows him to see an Endless amount of Universes or Infinite possibilities, but the Conduit's power source is stated to come from a dimension he cannot see. That can be interpreted that there's a dimension "Outside the multiverse". While I will not say that this exists on a plane of higher infinity above the multiverse on this section, I'm going to come back to that detail in the Xenosaga section. It can be assumed that the "Far Flung Dimension" is the same homeword as whoever the "Divine Entity" is however. But as I said, I will get to that when the time is right, but first. Malos does state in this video that Artifice Aion is powerful enough to "Destroy all existence". And it goes without saying that Artifice Aion is the final boss, whom Pneuma was able to defeat. Artifice Aion is the true Artifice and the only one powerful enough to harness the full power of the Conduit. Destroying the entire world would be Low 2-C, but as mentioned. Zanza/Architect surviving the epic center of the Inter-dimensional Big Bang would be a 2-C durability feat. And it's the only weapon that could kill him. He also said Entire World before he said destroy the Architect, implying that the Architect is more durable than the Universe. But, destroying "all existence" would still be 2-A. And as a side note, Pneuma is stated be capable of rewriting "All laws of physics" and mentions the speed of light would be completely frozen in comparison to her speed. The latter is more like an extremely casual FTL and/or time manipulation feat, but the former sounds like advanced levels of Reality Warping. One of the Admins on the Xenoblade wiki said that she could also rewrite the laws of the entire universe, but not sure on the source aside from the reality warping. Jin also states Pneuma can make her imagination become reality. But I digress that this is mostly hax, but I got even bigger albeit possibly even more dubious stuff. It's in the next section. But if it does turn out to be legit, then even Tier 1 stuff are within the realm of possibility.

Xenogears/Xenosaga connections

This is the main event as well as the most controversal one yet, but let's see what can be done. And unfortunately, I'm not familiar with Xenogears or Xenosaga, so I don't have enough concrete scans to confirm everything. Furthermore, Everlasting, Aeyu, and Ultima Reality were planning to revise them after we take care of the Final Fantasy profiles. But we still do have this profile which does give us some background. Also not sure how much better OBD's versio is, but we'll know eventually. But maybe the information could lead to more important scans. So according to our profiles, he is stated to exist on multiple degrees of higher infinities above the 4th Dimension; which is Time according to Xenogears. This video does at the very least state he's above all time and space]. And his statement about being the Beginning and the End is also very reminicient of what Alvis says. There's a slight difference to the wording that makes the meanings significant. Alvis said he was here at the beginning and be here at the end where as Wave Existence says he is the beginning and the end. But they do fuction with similar rules of being the true supreme God, despite dispite their humble personalities. They both simply call themselves machines or the "Will of the people." The Video also states he exists on a plane of higher infinity, but at least not in this video is it multiple degrees. But I'll move on to other links. A very important plot point in Xenogears and Xenosaga is The Zohar as well as the Zohar Modifier. The latter has the exact same statements as the Conduit such as being a perpetual motion machine, Magnetic Abnormal matter, Infinite-Energy Engine, and last but not the least, a gateway to the higher dimension. It is said that those that can merge with the Zohar Modifier can merge with Wave Existence. Or better yet, the Zohar connects The Lower Domai and the Upper Domai. The Lower Domain is stated to consists of both Real Number Domain and Imaginary Number Domain. Real Number Domain is the physical universe where humans live, the Imaginary Domain is stated to contain all abstract concepts. And the Lower Domain alone is also stated to contain an Infinite number of possibilities, and the OBD page mentions an infinite number of universes, but waiting on the rest of the crew to find a better statement. And I do not know where it mentions the number of higher dimensional planes or that there's multiple degrees of higher infinity. I only see one degree of higher infinity, which would be High 2-A at bare minimum for sure. But we're waiting on the rest of the gang to revise them. But as mentioned above, the Upper Domain is the place U-Do lives. U-Do is you guessed it, another Wave Existence. And also the true source of the Zohar's power; similar to how the other Wave Existence is the source of Zohar Modifier's power or how Alvis is the source of the Conduit's power. But anyway, it's a similar concept that those who merge with the Zohar could potentially merge with a Wave Existence/U-Do and be granted the ultimate power over the multiverse. And at the moment, their Tiers are 1-C if you look at Wave Existence's profile. Now as for why any of this has to do with anything, there is the fact that KOS-MOS and T-elos also make appearances in Xenoblade Chronicles 2. And they're aren't cameos as they outright make direct references to the Xenosaga franchise. Their backstories are literally 100% identical to their appearances in Xenosaga and are stated to have come from "Another world". Such as the fact that KOS-MOS was stated to be developed by Vector industries with Shion has her master taken from this official artbook, and also seems to recognize who the character Shion is; an important character in Xenosaga. There's also an image that appears to be a highlited image in Xenoblade Chronicles 2's Art gallery. It shows Kos-Mos and T-elos falling down the World Tree; which according to someone on this thread says it follows the ending of Xenosaga III, where Kos-Mos is seen drifting into space after she drifted through Zohar's interdimensional gateway. There was also a showing where T-elos orders Kos-Mos to merge with her and Kos-Mos says "Request declied." Which was a primary plot point in Xenosaga as T-elos was a villain in Xenosaga Episode III and which her goal was to merge with Kos-Mos. There's the fact they've known each other as arch enemies for many years. And in this cutscene, Shulk, Elma, and Kos-Mos; all characters who originate from different universes, were able to meet because the Nopon Archsage brought them together. Shulk from Xenoblade Chronicles 1, Elma from Xenoblade Chronicles X, and Kos-Mos from Xenosaga are talking about their own worlds and comparing it to Alrest in Xenoblade Chronicles 2. And it's important that Kos-Mos has to be recruited along side Shulk and Elma to even trigger this heart to heart conversation. And there's been a lot of debate as, Tetsuya Tatahashi has been calling each game Spiritual successors up until Xenoblade 2 basically united them into a big multiverse; which is consistent with Xenosaga already being a big complex multiverse. Authors typically use the term, "Parallel Universe" as a term to say it's a different continuity given the common absence of the world multiverse and often dependent on calling multiverses universes. However, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 has officially confirmed they're legit parallel universes within the same multiverse. And the fact that the Nopon Archsage outright confirms he's bringing timelines together is the primary reason all these crossover connections are canon to one another. I know what you're all thinking. Aren't Xenogears or Xenosaga owned by different publishers? Xenogears is one game owned by Square Enix, Xenosaga is a trilogy owned by Namco Bandai, and Xenoblade is owned by Nintendo. Yes, but they've been created by the same developer being Monolith Soft and Tetsuya Takahashi. It's due to copyright, that there's a limit to how many connections the creators can bring, but Xenosaga was legit stated to be a sequal to Xenogears. And it's that guidebook released by Square Enix that confirms it. And Xenoblade Chronicles 2 has more than enough connections to Xenosaga such as the fact that Kos-Mos was directly confirmed by Takahashi to be the exact same Kos-Mos from Xenosaga. And Kos-Mos and T-elos being highlighted as images in the Torna Expansion prequel also indicates that Takahashi obviously wants to highlight them as important figures. And while all these games definitely take place in different universes, they're part of the big multiverse the the Xeno franchise takes place in. There's also the one Heart to Heart conversation between Kos-Mos, Shulk, Elma, and Rex and what they all have in common is that each of them hail from different universes. And Kos-Mos as I already shown links above having direct confirmation that Kos-Mos has the exact same back story as the one from Xenosaga. It seems pretty obvious that he wants to connect all games together in some way or form, but of course copyright stuff limits this. Plus the Xenoblade Chronicles remake might add even more new stuff. Now back to the Conduit and to truly answer the Architect's statement about the Conduit's power "Leaking out of some Far Flung Dimension". That "Far flung dimension" could very well be referring to the Upper Domain from Xenosaga. The very same Upper Domain that Wave Existence/U-Do lives; and obviously where Alvis lives as well. The "Limitless Power" dwells from a plane where even those with Multiversal levels of precognition and Cosmic Awareness are unable to comprehend. While at first, that sounds like it's just advanced levels of presence concealment to remain undetected, and the power being "limitless" inherently refers more to stamina than it does Tier. However, the fact that the connections to Xenosaga, the identical details of the Conduit and Zohar's rules, the fact that the Conduit was originally going to be called the Zohar, and Kos-Mos outright comparing to the Zohar based on memories in one of her heart to heart conversations, it does seem to point the great tier. Which if it's true that Conduit = Zohar, which is currently 1-C, then there you go. Another thing to connect the Xeno games together is the concept of Ether from both franchises being used interchangeably. Ether is frequently described as being the source of not only all life, but also all creation and all existence, "Both material and immaterial." I already linked the video of Alvis explaining that even Shulk's visions are the flow of Ether itself. It's basically saying the same thing in Xenoblade Chronicles 2 about it being the power source of Blades, Titans, and Artifices; as being stated that everything is made of Ether. And it's also stated that the Conduit is also stated to be an unlimited source of Ether. But furthermore, the planet Mira that the majority of Xenoblade Chronicles X takes place on; Ether was something that was discovered for that particular universe. So far, it appears unknown whether or not they consider the rest of that universe made of Ether, but it is due to the flow of Ether surrounding Mira that's causing the Space-Time Anomaly according to some of the NPCs. There's also the Photon Saber which is stated to cut through Space-Time. Not proof that the sword itself has any notable AP feats, but it's another lore indication on the concept of Ether including Space-Time. Again, got no scans on this because I haven't played this game. But the next paragraph will go over examples of Ether mentioned in Xenosaga. Ether in Xenosaga is also the same thing. It's something that exists in everything. The wiki compares it to a combination of magic and alchemy as well as the Force from Star Wars. It also utilizes many different abilities the most prominent being the Hilbert Effect. Which is basically a powerful reality warping wave that connects the Real Number Domain to the Imaginary Number Domain as well as advanced levels of Space-Time manipulation. It's also stated that U-DO Waves and Zohar are the source of Ether. Just like the Monado and the Conduit in Xenoblade. Again, don't have the elaborate scans due to not having played this game, but we may know when Ultima Reality makes the Xenosaga reintroductions. As for even more connections, this article appears to be making connections from Xenogears and Xenoblade Chronicles X. Seems a bit speculative, but Perfect Works confirms connections to Xenogears and Xenosaga as being part of the same multiverse. And Xenoblade Chronicles 1, 2, and X are especially confirmed be connected as part of a much bigger multiverse; with very strong possibilities of Xenosaga being connected as well thanks to Kos-Mos and T-elos. If Xenosaga is connected to Xenoblade, not only does an infinite number of universes exist, but planes of higher infinities above the 4th dimension also exists. And the power of the Zohar, Conduit, and Monado are all the same.

Conclusions

Tier 2 or above Xenoblade is staying no matter what; all individual Universes are Low 2-C structured. There are multiple instances of characters either effecting or tanking things that effected multiple universes. Anyone who's played both games knows 100% that both Rex's Universe and Shulk's Universe are both two of many universes/timelines which were both originate from one universe and only exist as two separate Universes due to the very same Meta-Universal/Multiversal space-time transition event caused by Klaus/Zanza/The Architect. There are literally an infinite number of universes within the multiverse, as well as multiple statements; particularly from Alvis of being able to potentially effect each and every one of them. Zanza and Meyneth are able to live, move, and fight in the Chaos that predates time, thus possibly qualifying for Infinite speed for the Tier 2 cast; but unsure of this given the standards aren't 100% consistent. Precognition/Cosmic Awareness is on a Multiversal+ scale for certain. Limitless stamina is also justified for the Artifices and Alvis of course due to the Conduit's power source. So on other words, the God Tiers are at least 2-C and possibly 2-A. But if Xenosaga does turn out to be canon to Xenoblade; which so far seems more likely than not. And if Alvis is truly is or at least equal to the Wave Existence, then all those Tier 2 characters are actually Tier 1. Alvis is Shulk's weapon as well as the source of the Conduit's power. Similar to how Deus/Yahweh merging with Zohar makes him Tier 1 given Wave Existence rests in Zohar. And this would also further justify Alvis being Omnipresent across all time and space given Wave Existence literally is Immeasurable. And even if we aren't sure if Alvis is Wave Existence, there's still the fact that Xenosaga appears to have further details of the Infinite Universes theory. Plus as mentioned above, we're still waiting on Aeyu, Everlasting, and Ultima Reality to update the Xenosaga verse; but the other stuff are already quite big. If the Xenosaga connections aren't enough for 1-C, that is fine. If the Far Flung Dimension existing outside the Endless Universes doesn't qualify as a plane of higher infinity above the multiverse or High 2-A or above for that matter, that is also fine. At least until Xenosaga goes through. If Endless doesn't mean infinite and thus only qualifies as 2-B as opposed to 2-A, that is also fine unless the translation says otherwise or if Infinite Possibilities is not enough for 2-A, that is also fine. If there's no proof that 2-B is all at once, that is also fine. However, everyone who's played both games, studied the lore back to back knows that the Space-Time Transition event is blatantly a 2-C feat. And individual Universes are Space-Time continuums now matter how they're looked at. This is all I have to say for now. I may fine even more information, but who knows?

 

[Thatsafloridathing]

Thanks for taking your time on this, it was definitely worth the wait.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Oh jesus! That is not only longer than what I was expecting but is 100x better put together than what we had before. Props to all that work. I hope it pays off.

 

[Bware1]

Bump?

 

[Thatsafloridathing]

We'll still need more staff support to apply the changes to the profiles, maybe we should contact other knowledgeable members for this?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

We still need more staff support, Dark649 seems inactive but he also appears knowledgeable and supportive of the topic. I'd like his input however.

 

[Bware1]

Bump

 

[Bware1]

We still need more staff support, Dark649 seems inactive but he also appears knowledgeable and supportive of the topic. I'd like his input however.

Since Shulk is now offically under revision what does this mean for ongoing Battles with him involved. Do they need to be stopped?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Only if it goes, through, but we'll see. I do recall Dark649 agreed with 2-C at the very least and had plans for abilities additions for the cast.

 

[Bware1]

I could probably do some digging for the rest of the cast for other abilities in the meantime until and if he can respond to the upgrades. However can we add the abilities agreed upon already in the Hax related Xenoblade Thread since that does have Staff support?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, that other thread with minor additions is probably fine.

 

[Bware1]

Alright I shall add them to the profiles.

 

[Bware1]

Oh also I forgot to mention The Monado with Enchant not only Damage Boosts, but also allows Ordinary Weapons to Damage Mechon armor. Would that count as Limited Power Bestowal?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, it would be power bestowal.

 

[Bware1]

Ok most of the cast really have almost everything as far as abilities go for thier profiles, but here are a few additions for each of the Xenoblade 1 Cast I found.


Shulk/Alvis: Energy Projection via Monado Buster, Willpower Manipulation and Resistance to It (The Monado Bends to the user's will. Shulk was able to lift cancelation placed on the Monado placed on the Monado by Egil by using either particuls and use it to it's full capability to protect Fiora through sheer Willpower alone. youtube.com/watch?v=V4QiEiLU0hs ; Can weild the Monado without Zanza stripping his will away.), Morality Manipulation and Reactive Power Level ("Tension" is the gauge of someone's morale. Having Higher and Lower Tensions dictate how well someone does in battle. Party Members can increase tension throughout the course of battle which in turn raises thier power), Rage Power and Accelerated Development (Through his anger he Transformed the Monado from it's first form which can't kill organic life into it's second form which can kill organic life and proceeded to overwhelm Metal Face and Face Nemesis), Awakened Power (Shulk fought Zanza with a Replica Monado before he awoke to the power of the Monado III), Damage Reduction via Monado Armor, Telepathy (Alvis and Shulk can transmit thier feeling and thoughts to one another), Atomic Manipulation and possibly Deconstruction (The Monado hones and uses Either which can destroy the body at an atomic level to bypass durability, this is how Dunban lost the use of his right arm. More severe levels of either cause Disentigration), Social Influencing (Can gain Affinity from Party Members and ordinary citizens through various means which can lead to a variety of events in the world), Passive Healing (Via Aura Heal, Art Heal and Damage Heal Gems), Spatial Manipulation or Void Manipulation (The Monado is a powerful energy blade that can manipulate the ether around it, and by doing so, change the material and immaterial shape of the world.), Resistance Negation & Advanced Probability Manipulation (Some enemies are resistant to certain status effects; this can be averted during a Chain Attack, all enemies with a resistance will be unable to stop the status effect during Chain Attacks. However if an enemy is Immune to an effect. Their immunity will stay. By Inflicting a Combo of Break, Topple and Daze, the player can disrupt an enemy's action seen in a vision), minor Life Force Stealing (via HP Steal), possibly Fear Manipulation (Can cause enemies weaker then him to feel a sense of fear making them actively avoid fighting you until you make the first move; Also caused Dickson to uncontrollably shake in fear to the point where he made a hasty retreat. Dickson claimed that he had never felt fear before in his life meaning that Shulk induced the fear upon him), Teleportation and Dimensional Travel (Teleported away from his chat with Alvis in The Passage of Fate to defend his friends who were battling on Colony 9), possibly Immortality (Type 8; With the Monado III; Type 8 Immortality. Reliant on Alvis; Survived the erasure of all gods from the world, including himself as evident in the epilouge where the Monado III is no longer in existence and how Shulk and Alvis are completely capable of retaining thier memories. Shulk is known to survive attacks that would normally prove fatal as evident with Dickson's betrayl.), Can kill Non-Corporeal beings, Soul Manipulation (When Zanza died while inside Arglas' Body, Shulk was able to absorb his Soul inside of the Monado. Capable of completely destroying the Disembodied Souls of dead enemies in Memory Space and destroyed Zanza's to the point where his Soul no longer remained in existence.), Causality Manipulation and Fate Manipulation (It is stated by Alvis that Shulk has the power to choose the fate of the World, since he is stronger than Zanza who is capable of fusing with the Passage of Fate. Shulk would likely be able to use the Passage of Fate as well. Erased The Gods from his own Universe, and created a singularity which brought Himself and Fiora back to life and rewrote not only his own Universe where all creatures of Bionis and Mechonis are Destined to Walk hand and hand, The True Monado was also implied to be the same "Higher Power" that created the laws of causality which gives Shulk the ability to understand and manipulate it, but this singularity had also affected Rex and Pyra's Universe as well.) If we include Xenoblade 2 DLC; Shulk would also get Purification (Type 3), Resistance to Radiation Manipulation via Terrain Defence Gem; can grant resistance and decrease damage against hazardous enviornments), Empathic Manipulation via Lock-On Resist Gem), Life Manipulation, Atomic Manipulation and Deconstruction (Able to weild the Monado without his body deteriorating and his lifeforce being sacraficed unlike the previous weilder of the Monado; Dunban who's body has weakend from immense use of the Monado sappping his lifeforce away. His right arm broke down and deteriorated on a Molecular Level thus losing the use of it. More severe levels of either can cause Disintigration), Pocket Reality Manipulation, Black Holes (Can survive and over come Zanza's Black Hole), Fear Manipulation (Can resist the effects of Monado Fear), Space-Time Manipulation (Unaffected by Zanza's Manipulation of The Passage of Fate which can affect Space-Time), Void Manipulation (Can take hits from Zanza and Meynth's Monado's both of which have the power to change the material and immeterial of the world), possibly Subjective Reality (Broke out from Alvis' Creation of a new reality born from Shulk's conciousness which included recreating party member's appearance & personalities. Considering Shulk's reaction as if he was waking up from a dream, the aura surrounding him and the banter afterwards regarding it indicates more towards Shulk actually breaking out of it rather than Alvis actually ending it), Reality Warping (Can survive Zanza's World reconstruction), and Extrasensory Perception (Can resist the detection from Land, Water and Air Based enemies with Cloak Gems which hide the party's presence), (Can cheat death and prevent himself from being one shotted with Unbeatable Gem. Don't know what that would classify under)

Alvis Only: Avatar Creation, Summoning (Can Summon Telethia's), Possibly Regenerationn (High Godly; Alvis is The Monado III which represents the power of a god. After the reset of the Universe where all gods were erased alongside the old universe. Alvis was shown seemingly unphased.), Law Manipulation (Alvis states that the Law that gods are restricted in thier power by Providence, and thus cannot be come truly unlimited, and as a result restricts Both of Zanza's Monado's), Higher-Dimensional Existence (Is the Admisistrative Computer computer of a phase transition experiment facility), Subjective Reality (Can manipulate Reality to show Shulk how the world was formed and destroyed over time, and recreated Shulk's commrades down to thier looks and personalities perfectly from Shulk's Conciousness to decide the fate that they choose for the World's Rebirth while the party was stuck in Stopped Time in Memory Space therefore bringing a new reality into fiction and vanishing just as quickly as if it never happened.)

Fiora: Danmaku via Final Cross, Gravity Manipulation via Zero Gravity, Damage Boost with Second Gear, Limited Empathic Manipulation with Lock on, Healing and Purification (Type 3), via Healing Energy, Passive Healing with Aura Heal, Arts Heal and Damage Heal Gems, Damage Reduction via Gaurd Shift, Energy Absorption via Power and Either Drain, Probability Manipulation via Weapon Power Gem, Willpower Manipulation (Broke free from Egil's control through sheer will), Morality Manipulation and Reactive Power Level ("Tension" is the gauge of someone's morale. Having Higher and Lower Tensions dictate how well someone does in battle. Party Members can increase tension throughout the course of battle), Resistance Negation and Probability Manipulation (During Chain Attack Party Members can inflict Status Effects on certain enemies despite thier resistances by lowering or out right removing thier resistance), Enhanced Senses (Able to hear the Machina approaching the party through sound when no one else was able to hear them. 6:14:30 ), Possibly Sound Manipulation (Due to her Machina Body. She should be capable of lowering her sound like other Machina), Flight with the use of technical device, Inorganic Physiology (Type 2; Had all of her organs removed in order to be compatable with her new Mechon Body), Possibly Regenerationn (Low-Mid; Linada states that Fiora could regenerate her oragins using her genetic information), Resistance to Memory Manipulation (Able to remeber recall Shulk and the party's identity after having it supposedly erased by egil; Should scale to Gadolt who can retain some of his memories after having them supposedly wiped. Indicated by intetnionally missing Sharla when firing shots. Fiora stated to inherit Meynth's memories. Dickson noticed that she got stronger and even mistook Fiora inheriting Meynth's Power indicating she got alot stronger because of it), Resistance to Radiation Manipulation via Terrain Defence Gem; can grant resistance and decrease damage against hazardous enviornments), Empathic Manipulation via Lock-On Resist Gem), Fear Manipulation (Can resist Zanza's Monado Fear), Black Holes (Can survive and over come Zanza's Black Hole), Reality Warping (Can survive Zanza's World Reconstruction), Pocket Reality Manipulation, Extrasensory Perception (Can resist the detection from Land, Water and Air Based enemies with Cloak Gems which hide the party's presence), & (Can cheat death and prevent herself from being one shotted with Unbeatable Gem. Don't know what that would classify under)

Melia: Damage Boost via Summon Flare, Sleep Manipulation, Damage Reduction via Summon Ice which reduces Either Damage, Probability Manipulation via Weapon Power Gem, Passive Healing via Aura Heal, Art Heal and Damage Heal Gems, Morality Manipulation and Reactive Power Level ("Tension" is the gauge of someone's morale. Having Higher and Lower Tensions dictate how well someone does in battle. Party Members can increase tension throughout the course of battle), Forcefield Creation (Put a Forcefield around herself and Fiora to protect against an Either Blast), minor Life Manipulation via Summon Aqua (Drains enemy HP), Resistance Negation and Probability Manipulation (During Chain Attack Party Members can inflict Status Effects on certain enemies despite thier resistances by lowering or out right removing thier resistance), Resistance to Biological Manipulation (Due to being half homs, she alone resisted all of the High Entia being turned into Telethias), possibly Telepathy (The Telethia are in fact the true forms of the High Entia and thus should be able to use some of thier powers including "Soul Read" which opponents' minds and anticipate their movements to a point where it borders on Precognition), Resistance to Radiation Manipulation via Terrain Defence Gem; can grant resistance and decrease damage against hazardous enviornments), Empathic Manipulation via Lock-On Resist Gem), Extrasensory Perception (Can resist the detection from Land, Water and Air Based enemies with Cloak Gems which hide the party's presence), Black Holes (Can survive and over come Zanza's Black Hole), Fear Manipulation (Can resist the effects of Monado Fear), Reality Warping (Can Survive Zanza's World Reconstruction), Pocket Reality Manipulation, & (Can cheat death and prevent herself from being one shotted with Unbeatable Gem. Don't know what that would classify under)

Dunba: Limited Empathic Manipulation via Peerless, Blinding Blossom and Heat Haze, Purification (Type 3) via Spirit Breath, Probability Manipulation via Weapon Power Gem, Passive Healing via Aura Heal, Art Heal and Damage Heal Gems, Self Resurrection with Jaws of Death, Morality Manipulation and Reactive Power Level ("Tension" is the gauge of someone's morale. Having Higher and Lower Tensions dictate how well someone does in battle. Party Members can increase tension throughout the course of battle), Resistance Negation and Probability Manipulation (During Chain Attack Party Members can inflict Status Effects on certain enemies despite thier resistances by lowering or out right removing thier resistance), Resistance to Radiation Manipulation via Terrain Defence Gem; (can grant resistance and decrease damage against hazardous enviornments), Empathic Manipulation via Lock-On Resist Gem), Pocket Reality Manipulation, Black Holes (Can survive and over come Zanza's Black Hole), Extrasensory Perception (Can resist the detection from Land, Water and Air Based enemies with Cloak Gems which hide the party's presence), Fear Manipulation (Can Resist Zanza's Monado Fear), Reality Warping (Can survive Zanza's World Reconstruction), (Can cheat death and prevent himself from being one shotted with Unbeatable Gem. Don't know what that would classify under), Limited Resistance to Life Manipulation, Atomic Manipulation & Deconstruction (While his right arm started to break down and deteriorate on a Molecular Level thus losing the use of it. The rest of his body was able to resist the effects of the Monado since he has been using it for an unknown amount of time. Though it is likely Dunban would have died eventually if he kept using it.)

Rey: Rage Power via Berserker, Resurrection via Last Stand (It will Revive him once and heal him on top of it), Damage Boost via Magnum Charge, Damage Reduction via Rage, Limited Empathic Manipulation with Mad Taunt, Anchor Chain, Hammer Beat and Engage, Probability Manipulation via Weapon Power Gem, Passive Healing via Aura Heal, Art Heal and Damage Heal Gems, Morality Manipulation and Reactive Power Level ("Tension" is the gauge of someone's morale. Having Higher and Lower Tensions dictate how well someone does in battle. Party Members can increase tension throughout the course of battle), Resistance Negation and Probability Manipulation (During Chain Attack Party Members can inflict Status Effects on certain enemies despite thier resistances by lowering or out right removing thier resistance), Resistance to Radiation Manipulation via Terrain Defence Gem; (can grant resistance and decrease damage against hazardous enviornments), Pocket Reality Manipulation, Empathic Manipulation via Lock-On Resist Gem), Extrasensory Perception (Can resist the detection from Land, Water and Air Based enemies with Cloak Gems which hide the party's presence), Black Holes (Can survive and over come Zanza's Black Hole), Fear Manipulation (Can resist the effects of Zanza's Monado Fear), Reality Warping (Can survive Zanza's World Reconstruction), (Can cheat death and prevent himself from being one shotted with Unbeatable Gem. Don't know what that would classify under)

Sharla: Heat Manipulation via Cool Off (Releases all the built up Heat from using other Arts), Limited Empathic Manipulation via Covert Stance, Death Manipulation via Head Shot, Purification (Type 3) and can grant temporary Immunity or Resistance to Status Effect Inducement if it's considered NLF via Cure Round, Passive Healing with Aura Heal, Art Heal and Damage Heal Gems, Morality Manipulation and Reactive Power Level ("Tension" is the gauge of someone's morale. Having Higher and Lower Tensions dictate how well someone does in battle. Party Members can increase tension throughout the course of battle), Resistance Negation and Probability Manipulation (During Chain Attack Party Members can inflict Status Effects on certain enemies despite thier resistances by lowering or out right removing thier resistance), Resistance to Radiation Manipulation via Terrain Defence Gem; (can grant resistance and decrease damage against hazardous enviornments), Empathic Manipulation via Lock-On Resist Gem), Extrasensory Perception (Can resist the detection from Land, Water and Air Based enemies with Cloak Gems which hide the party's presence), Black Holes (Can survive and over come Zanza's Black Hole), Pocket Reality Manipulation, Fear Manipulation (Can resist the effects of Monado Fear), Reality Warping (Can Survive Zanza's World Reconstruction), (Can cheat death and prevent herself from being one shotted with Unbeatable Gem. Don't know what that would classify under)

Riki: Stealth Mastery, Limited Empathic Manipulation via Play Dead, Statistics Amplification via Hero Time, Passive Healing with Gems, Purification (Type 3), Mind Manipulation (can inflict confuse via Peekaboo), Damage Boost via Say Sorry, Instinctive Reactions, Morality Manipulation and Reactive Power Level ("Tension" is the gauge of someone's morale. Having Higher and Lower Tensions dictate how well someone does in battle. Party Members can increase tension throughout the course of battle), Resistance Negation and Probability Manipulation (During Chain Attack Party Members can inflict Status Effects on certain enemies despite thier resistances by lowering or out right removing thier resistance), Resistance to Radiation Manipulation via Terrain Defence Gem; can grant resistance and decrease damage against hazardous enviornments), Empathic Manipulation via Lock-On Resist Gem), Extrasensory Perception (Can resist the detection from Land, Water and Air Based enemies with Cloak Gems which hide the party's presence), Black Holes (Can survive and over come Zanza's Black Hole), Pocket Reality Manipulation, Fear Manipulation (Can resist the effects of Monado Fear), Reality Warping (Can survive Zanza's World Reconstruction), (Can cheat death and prevent himself from being one shotted with Unbeatable Gem. Don't know what that would classify under)

Dickso: Energy Projection via Thunder Flash, Transformation and Large Size (Type 1) for his Disciple Form, Durability Negation via Chaos Bullet, Can absorb a target's talent gauge (I don't know what this would qualify under), Portal Creation, Purification (Type 3) and can grant Immunity to Status Effect Inducement or Resistance if that is considered NLF.

Zanza: Telepathy (Transmit his thoughts and feelings to Meynth, Shulk and Alvis), Willpower Manipulation (Monado's Bend to the user's will, he also gave free will to all life on Bionis and is capable of taking it away.), Energy Projection via Monado Buster, Damage Reduction (Via Monado Armor), Pocket Reality Manipulation (Created Memory Space and can alter it at will), Atomic Manipulation and possibly Deconstruction (The Monado hones and uses Either which can destroy the body at an atomic level and in more severe cases cause Disentigration), Resistance Negation and Probability Manipulation (When he has summoned gaurdians out on the battlefield with him, he can use his own Chain Attack which should have the same effects), Body Control (Can Control the Bionis' body to fight), Telekinesis (Picked up Meynth's Momado through Telekinesis after killing her), Spatial Manipulation or Void Manipulation (The Monado is a powerful energy blade that can manipulate the ether around it, and by doing so, change the material and immaterial shape of the world), Creation (Weilds Meynth's Monado which holds the Power of Creation), Life Manipulation (Absorbed the Life from a group of Homs on an expedition where they discovered the Monado. This included Shulk), Energy Explosion Manipulation (via Titan Bazooka VIII; creates spontanious explosions of Either energy), Danmaku (via Monado Shooter IX), Space-Time Manipulation (Merging with the Passage of Fate grants the ability to affect the Space-Time continuim of the world along with passive Fate Manipulation), True Flight, Large Size (Type 2) through transformation to his 2nd form, Fear Manipulation (Via Monado Fear inducing Fear to the party), Regenerationn (Possibly: Low Godly; Alvis states that even if thier bodies are destroyed, Zanza and Meynth can still survive and exist as Souls, and are capable of forming new host bodies. Resistance to Perception Manipulation, Paralysis Inducement, and Power Nullification (Can resist the effects of Monado Purge), Sleep Manipulation (Is 100% unaffected by Melia's Hypnotise), Status Effect Inducement (Is naturally resistant to certain Status Effects such as Binding, Fear Manipulation (Was unphased by Relpica Monado Shulk's presence), and Death Manipulation (Is 100% unaffected by Sharla's Head Shot)

Meynth: Telepathy (Can transmit her thoughts and feelings to Zanza), Willpower Manipulation (Monado's bend to the User's will), Memory Manipulation (Capable of restoring Gadolt's Memories after having them erased through Danmaku), Atomic Manipulation and possibly Deconstruction (The Monado hones and uses Either which can destroy the body at an atomic level and in more severe cases cause Disentigration), Spatial Manipulation or Void Manipulation (The Monado is a powerful energy blade that can manipulate the ether around it, and by doing so, change the material and immaterial shape of the world), Possession (Capable of possessing Fiora's body as a Soul), Danmaku (Via Final Cross), Metal Manipulation (Created The Machina), Creation (Her Monado is said to hold the power over creation), Precognition (Monado's allow it's weilders to see into the future), Possibly Regenerationn (Low Godly; Alvis states that Zanza and Meynth are both capable of living as Souls and can form New Host Bodies to live.)

 

[JJSliderman]

So as for my two cents.

Yeah I do think the Conduit has Low Multiversal range but scaling it to characters seems kinda wack.

Like I tried to do that once and it makes no sense considering Zanza or the Architect doesn't really use the Conduit's power.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Bump as what DDM proposed for Shulk is important.

 

[Bware1]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

Can somebody provide an easy to understand summary of what is suggested here, and which staff members that agree and disagree with it?

 

[Thatsafloridathing]

I'll try to provide a summary later, I'm going to school for the next few hours.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Antvasima, the details are listed in this comment, but basically some details are this.

In Xenoblade Chronicles 1, not only do we have countless statements of Zanza and Meyneth being universal creators/destroyers as well as the world they live in being Endless or Boundless, and/or being reminiscent of various ancient mythologies consisting of a flat Earth with infinite sized oceans and skies. There's also a statement that Zanza and Meyneth fought "Before time bega", implying that they've indeed created space-time as well as the universe. And that Zanza mentions the same Universe he created himself being "Born from the Chaos of creation." Chaos in this context was commonly used to refer to the void that predates the existence of Space-Time. This confirms that the god tiers are definitely Tier 2, and could potentially have Infinite speed given that Zanza and Meyneth can move and fight before time exists. I'm familiar with this page regarding the speed.

Xenoblade Chronicles 2 basically revealed more information. First of all, the first 2 minutes of this video originally showcased the creation and destruction of the universe. And back then, it was simply considered Universal Space-Time transition event. However, more details confirm it's Multiversal rather than Universal; but it requires looking at multiple sources back to back in order to fully understand that detail. This video compares and contrasts the cutscenes, which Xenoblade 2's version mentions the tool used to perform the transition was stated to be both "A gift from some divine entity" and "A Meta-Universe Manifold (Multiverse Joint in the Japanese version). Second, the Architect in this video mentions a lot more things. He confirms there exists and "Endless number of parallel universes". And describing the exact same "Birth of a Universe/Space-Time Transition event", he mentions that "Many people and many things being warped into distant dimensions", "half his body remaining as the only thing left of the universe he was in", "his other half (aka Zanza) living on in an alternate dimension (Being the newly created Universe that Xenoblade Chronicles 1 takes place in)." I have far more details and scans in the collapsed comments, but the big pictures are basically this. The Big Bang was multiversal and effected at least two universes, Zanza withstood the epic center and while his body was split in half with the other half getting BFR'd to the second Universe, both his halfs survived the event which is a Low Multiverse level durability feat. And multiple scans I have regarding the Land of Challenge and the parallel endings confirm they're different space-time continuums.

That gets the parts I'm positive about out of the way, but then there are other details I'm not sure about. There's a mention of Endless Universes (Which a unknown Japanese translator offsite said Infinite), Infinite Possibilities, and somewhere there's also a statement that says there are as many worlds as their are possibilities. And there's multiple statements that mentions The Monado or Alvis being "The creator of everything" and the ability to effect "All existence". And some statements saying Malos could "Destroy all existence" when piloting the Artifice Aion. Some could interpret this as 2-A, or at least 2-B because some people are iffy on Endless simply meaning Countless or Innumerable rather than Infinite. But I don't like using forcing one dictionary definition over every other and believe context is more important. Plus, Endless is closer to meaning Infinite than it is Countless, Numberless, or Innumerable in most English dictionaries. But if the actual Japanese version outright says Infinite, then the definition becomes irrelevant.

The stuff I'm further unsure, but really not something that could be ignored would be strong possibilities of Xenosaga actually being canon to Xenoblade. Kos-Mos and T-elos (Both characters who originate from Xenosaga) appear in Xenoblade Chronicles 2 as optional party members, but they are so often highlighted in many side quests and Heart to Heart conversations meant to give in depth about character's backstories and personalities. There's even mentions that make their backstories identical to their Xenosaga counterparts and mentions that they came from a different Universe. Given that Xenosaga and Xenoblade are both super big expansive multiverses, and the ending of Xenosaga three showcases Kos-Mos drifting into an interdimensional gateway it make sense. There's also an official artbook approved by Monolith Soft and Nintendo which has this image confirming Kos-Mos having the same birth/creators as in Xenosaga. As well as this image appearing in the central gallery of Xenoblade Chronicles 2's Torna DLC chapter. There do seem to be a lot of connections. Kos-Mos also makes plenty of notes comparing Conduit from Xenoblade Chronicles 2 to the Zohar from Xenosaga. The Xenosaga god tiers are 1-C looking that this profile, but I know Ultima Reality and Everlasting were going to go over them eventually.

I will ask Dark649 for input as he also seems knowledgeable on Xeno series; he has also agreed with some possible 2-C upgrades for a while. And I'm unsure about 2-A or Tier 1 stuff, but pretty confident that 2-C and maybe Infinite speed are legit.

 

[JJSliderman]

So moving before the beginning of time is Infinite speed? Interesting...reminds me of something that could be very similar.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I trust your sense of judgement, but you can ask Ultima Reality and Dark649 for input if you wish.

 

[Bware1]

Bump

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I have asked Dark649, but I heard he's been ill IRL. I could ask Ultima Reality later, but he may have his hands full knowing him.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem. I suppose that we may have to go with your judgement alone if neither of them respond.