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- #81
Pre-retconned Beyonder does the same thing when he fights celestial host.
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Beyonders downgrade
- Thread starter Gasper
- Start date
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- marvel comics
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Wouldn't that just make all characters who can destroy infinite universes(2-A) structures have infinite speed since it would obviously contain infinite amount of being?
To be honest, I personally still don't see it as speed no matter how I think about it and the statement kinda sounded "metaphorical".
Also, shouldn't this also be in the FAQ or speed page about about killing infinite number of beings granting infinite speed?
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Would depend on how they'd do it. If they're going around blasting universes one by one until they're all reduced to a finite number (Or to 0), there is certainly an argument there for that. If they just release a blast that engulfs the multiverse, or do so through Reality Warping, that wouldn't be any speed, no.
Not sure what in there is metaphorical. Although I suppose it doesn't matter too much, given the exchange above.
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- #85
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No, not to you.
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I'm fine with Infinite speed since it looks like he actively entered an infinite number of timelines within a finite amount of time.
Excellence616
He/Him- 5,483
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Agree with Infinite speed
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Ew no
- 5,273
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- Thread starter
- #93
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To summarize, Beyonder is getting downgraded, but who is also getting downgraded, and who is keeping their immeasurable speed from different scaling or feats?
- 5,273
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- Thread starter
- #95
Probably just one above all is going to keep his immeasurable speed and i am not 100% sure on pre retcon beyonder. Beings such as eternity has omnipresence so he stays unchanged.
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What's the one above all immeasurable speed again?
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It seems like infinite speed has been accepted for the Beyonders and abstract entities then.
However, please stop using the word omniverse instead of multiverse. Just because Al Ewing used the word in an inaccurate context a few times because he thought that it sounded cool does not mean that we should do so as well.
However, please stop using the word omniverse instead of multiverse. Just because Al Ewing used the word in an inaccurate context a few times because he thought that it sounded cool does not mean that we should do so as well.
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The feat's not good.
- How they killed an endless number of them can be hyperbolic on how they killed many of them & they kept coming (if it wouldn't be a hyperbole if each universe had Celestials).
- It has characters of lesser speed seeing this happen.
- And notably the bg thing, I take "as they battled, what divides one reality from the next began to fade. And like blurred, overlapping vision, I could see the same battle taking place in the multiple realities. In each one, a different Beyonder facing...and destroying...the Celestial host." as them having put 1 Beyonder per universe doing this battle, then in all universes it took them minutes to finish anyway. Later on their gauntlet it was portrayed as "the same fight taking place across all realities at the same time.", confirming that yes, there weren't a "trio of Beyonders", there were "each" "a different Beyonder" "across all realities", and they didn't even finish a the fight & then moved on to another universe, it was all happening "at the same time", with someone being able to see a "blurred, overlapping vision" of those fights (His mind couldn't get all the info, but that doesn't matter with the facts we know).
W/o the feat before, none of this would matter.
This seems like they're acknowledging the nonsense of their actions, not stating that there is this higher notion of linearity. Otherwise terms like "time-before-time" or "time-before" would stick.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the weakness to time the Beyonders have just regular time in way that can be proven anyway?
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- #105
Not sure. Most of them agreed with the downgrade from immeasurable to mftl+ maybe infinite.
Ultima thinks they should have infinite speed which is fine i guess.
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They killed the Celestial host which is the only the indication we get. However the Celestial there were not Endless. The Beyonders killed a majority of them and later Logos slaughtered all but one saved by possibility from Never Queen(Pligrim).
So you are not wrong but the endless is referring to all states of Celestial in that reality. That was the trap that Celestial, Gods, and Cosmic Entity fell for. From that Thin Space the reality collapse leading to the next.
This is why Hank refers to all reality forming when the Living Tribunal came because the nexus formed the remaining realities. The battle only had three Beyonders as mentioned in other stories. It took place in all reality because the fight was against the being that came being formed of those realities. Each battle was taking place at the same time because the Beyonders are linear so each time they kill the Tribunal each reality kept collapsing until those realities collapsed thus the Tribunal fell from the Heavens.
Yes but that doesn't really contradict anything. Endless is what he perceives but it could be endless. You take your pick.
Not really it may say it took place at the same time but it may be due to the fact the Tribunal is all reality. It's more likely each Beyonder defeating the Cosmic entities caused each reality to collapse and since they are linear it must happen all at once. The chain reaction all took place at the same time the Tribunal lost in that reality thus the battle seemed to look like it happened in all reality.
They were but they are from the 2nd Cosmos which was just a primodrial goup of possibility where narratives were new and forming. They were there since time-before-time.
It seems linearity happened because when they enter the Multiverse they do not match anything of it.
Their weakness is that they are sequential to their timeline thus are linear. If anything they could create time and existed before there were things such a linearity, time, space, or timelines.
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Excellence616
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Didn't we agreed for Infinite Speed Beyonders?
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Sorry, if I am a late to this but...
Beyonders are limited to their own timeline yes
Doesn't mean they are affected by regular time does it? They legit wiped out abstracts that for all intents and purposes straight up stomped abstracts that transcend time. They just can't travel through time since they're linear, it's more of a existence restriction than an effect on their speed IMHO. It's not like you can freeze time and they will be affected nor can any of the guys with immeasurable speed in marvel blitz them
Beyonders are limited to their own timeline yes
Doesn't mean they are affected by regular time does it? They legit wiped out abstracts that for all intents and purposes straight up stomped abstracts that transcend time. They just can't travel through time since they're linear, it's more of a existence restriction than an effect on their speed IMHO. It's not like you can freeze time and they will be affected nor can any of the guys with immeasurable speed in marvel blitz them
Excellence616
He/Him- 5,483
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They should be faster than Infinite Speed Quicksilver and Thor's immeasurable speed.
And there is this in TWSA profile:
And there is this in TWSA profile:
About him being a Beyonder.
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It is a contradiction, you just say that it isn't for no valid reason. I took my pick by saying that it "can be hyperbolic", "can" meaning it's not definitive. When something vague it's presented that can be literal or hyperolic, you can't ask people to take 1 binary pick, if they say they can be both then that's correct, it's a complain for the sake of complaining.
Those are 2 assumptions at once not supported by the comic to justify that going up against a take that simply takes in what the text says. Added on top of that how it's somehow not contradiction for a character of finite reactions to react to a fight of characters at infinite speed and ig Infinite speed becomes legit.
It doesn't matter if abstracts they defeated transcend time, that's on them.
Existing outside everything is an outdated reasoning for that speed people still use due to disorganization.
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Agree:
Eficiente
Firestorm808
Elizio33
Disagree:Ultima_Reality (Thinks Infinite Speed works better)
Marvel_Champion_07 (Thinks Infinite Speed works better)
DarkDragonMedeus (Thinks Infinite Speed works better)
Antvasima (Thinks Infinite Speed works better)
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This thread aged like milk. The Beyonders now have Immeasurable speed but Varies in physical form
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Proof that sometimes a corpse should, in fact, be left well alone. Closing this.
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