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Bewear upgrade or new key/profile

The definitions of these things are not so easily fixed that they can be seen as citable. You citing a definition that clearly is not the 100% definition that is used constantly is not going to help you. Furthermore, you don't even realize you're not arguing with me anymore. I don't deny that this Bewear specifically is consistently 5B feats wise. I deny that it makes sense. I deny that this is representative of all Bewears. I deny that it's position in the verse is 100% able to be discarded in the process of analyzing it. I deny that it would be wrong to disregard the feats as memes and conform to what we know about this Bewear— that it's no more remarkable lore wise than any other Bewear. But I also don't Deny that exceptional Pokémon exist, and Bewear might be one of them. I say, it's up to everyone else. At best, we get to make a profile for this one specifically and leave it at that, or we do the reverse and take down any profile that's not a Pokémon that has trained or is trained by a trainer if it's got broken feats for the same reasons I listed.

Because Pokémon are only going to be that strong from trainers doing their thing.
 
Amexim said:
The definitions of these things are not so easily fixed that they can be seen as citable. You citing a definition that clearly is not the 100% definition that is used constantly is not going to help you. Furthermore, you don't even realize you're not arguing with me anymore. I don't deny that this Bewear specifically is consistently 5B feats wise. I deny that it makes sense. I deny that this is representative of all Bewears. I deny that it's position in the verse is 100% able to be discarded in the process of analyzing it. I deny that it would be wrong to disregard the feats as memes and conform to what we know about this Bewear— that it's no more remarkable lore wise than any other Bewear. But I also don't Deny that exceptional Pokémon exist, and Bewear might be one of them. I say, it's up to everyone else. At best, we get to make a profile for this one specifically and leave it at that, or we do the reverse and take down any profile that's not a Pokémon that has trained or is trained by a trainer if it's got broken feats for the same reasons I listed.
Because Pokémon are only going to be that strong from trainers doing their thing.
Click to expand...
oh my bad then
 
Has this Bewear been shown explicitly to be stronger than other Bewears? Does it have any antifeats? Is it definitely the same Bewear in each of these appearances?

There's a vast number of times where Ash's Pokemon have fought legendaries, every single one is considered an outlier. While I'd like to stay neutral, you'd need a stronger case to get it upgraded simply because the gap in power is insane (and it's about to increase dramatically again)
 
GyroNutz said:
Has this Bewear been shown explicitly to be stronger than other Bewears? Does it have any antifeats? Is it definitely the same Bewear in each of these appearances?
There's a vast number of times where Ash's Pokemon have fought legendaries, every single one is considered an outlier. While I'd like to stay neutral, you'd need a stronger case to get it upgraded simply because the gap in power is insane (and it's about to increase dramatically again)
Click to expand...
you know the bewear that constantly kidnaps Team Rocket? This bewear has ONLY 5B feats
 
It would have to be stronger than other bewears, because it did these things. It is the same Bewear, and I am almost certain there are low end feats which can work as antifeats for it. In agree that there's not a very good lore case for it. It just has wild feats.
 
I cant think of one time in all of SM that Bewear has even flinched at anything that wasnt a UB.
 
If this is an outlier, then downgrade every single Pokemon arbitrarily upgraded for scaling to legendaries like Grovyle, Dusknoir, Lucario, You may as well also downgrade every single legendary pokemon, considering most of their feats are outliers compared to the majority of their showings (Zapods, Articuno and Moltres are Island-level because there is a mythical trio of them led by a Lugia in the anime? What? and all Lugia are 6-B over a dex entry, which are dismissed as mostly BS?). Hell, downgrade all of the pokemon recently upgraded in the manga. They are only 4-B due to Necrozma scaling, and they are all completely different from their anime or game counterparts.

And, no, saying they are 'legendaries' doesn't really change anything. The anime and games depict multiple copies of legendaries countless times. For god's sake, you make another Giratina, Dialga or Palkia in HGSS. Not even the creation trio are safe from having different members of their species.

Either stop treating legendaries like they are singular existences, or start upgrading pokemon for scaling to them in canon.
 
To add further, Ash's Pikachu is constantly considered special in its strength, even very early on in the series and Bewear is an extremely powerful and consistent pokemon. They are both massive outliers of their species, it's why Anime Pikachu has its very own page.
 
Yeah, pretty sure. And the context is:

Darkrai was asleep

Lucario had super-effective damage (Aura Sphere is fighting and counters Dark)

Lucario was amped by power of friendship BS

that Darkrai's best feat/statement is 'shrouding the world in darkness'.

Lucario didn't even beat Darkrai. It just knocked the sleeping Darkrai out of mind control.

So, Lucario scales to 2-C, possibly 2-B for knocking a featless sleeping Darkrai out of mind control with an amped super-effective attack and also SOMEHOW has Infinite speed, despite the feat coming from hitting a stationary target.
 
Team Rocket's Momma Bewear, after the one we see chase Ash and Pikachu, is the ONLY Bewear that we see in ALL of Sun/Moon unless I missed something. Every combat showing of it either has it utterly overpowering another Pokemon, or matching Ultra Beasts. It had a casual contest of strength with Buzzwole, who was stomping every other 7-A Pokemon it had encountered, which included Machamp, Rhyperior, and Pangoro. The ONLY Pokemon that managed to not get tossed around was Bewear, and then she left to do mom bear things.

When she saw what Pheromosa had done to Meowth, she bodied it quite thoroughly in speed and power. The only time THIS Bewear ever took real damage was against an enraged Guzzlord, who she was beating on pretty handily at first, until she had to protect her baby, at which point, all she could do was huddle down and take a beating to protect her kid. Gag character? Sure. But she's consistent in every feat she has. Not every Lucario is 2-C/2-B, not every Grovyle is 2-C. And not every Bewear is gonna be 4-B just because THIS one is a special case.
 
In my opinion.

Feats are only outliers if there are anti-feats to suggest gag, plot induced stupidity or character induced stupidity. Without anti-feats, calling the character an outlier is strange because it disregards the only feats she has with no fallback feats to suggest what her personal tier is separate from the species and calling the character 'just a gag character' brings me to say; she is a Saitama, where instead of : the gag justifies the feats, we have: the feats justifies the gag.

I would say that it's closer to cherry picking to call this character an outlier than it is to consider this character legit.

I'll admit that it is a close call, making both sides seem like cherry picking from the point of view of the opposing side, but it should be fine as long as she gets her own separate key distinct from the others of her kind.
 
idk in my opinion if it happens it happens, even if she had an anti-feat or two she is consistent enough by the overwhelming majority in her place in regards to other characters. I dont really like the whole outlier mentality in general unless it's completely undeniable and the outlier page we have even says as much that it should be a last resort.
 
I am more opposed to the outlier mentality than not, I'm mostly just presenting my views on what should or shouldn't count as an outlier.

Consider the opposing points: The Bewear is multiple tiers above her kind and is a gag character... These two things 'do' increase the amount of scrutiny a character gets because one implies an extreme case of uniqueness not frequently shown elsewhere in wild pokemon and the other reduces how seriously people take the character.

My point is geared towards drawing the line at least a bit before going as far as to say that the character is invalid because of the consistency and quantity of the feats while also addressing the idea of being a gag character, but if the line can be drawn even more reasonably than that, then lets go with that. I am all for it.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
It doesn't matter if its consistent, it doesnt stop it from being an insane outlier. Pikachu consistently deals with the Tapu and Ultra Beasts. We aren't upgrading him to tier 5/4. This is no different.
Click to expand...
If anything we should probably give Pikachu variable tier since it's so inconsistent anyways
 
Not wrong, Pikachu has been canonically hard nerfed multiple times anyway. At the start of Hoenn and the start of Unova being tw main examples.
 
I don't think those were anything more than headcanon though I agree that i the only way to rationalize losing to a starter that was only just given to an rokie trainer
 
This specific Bewear is an outlier based on the Dictionary definition of an outlier. out┬Àli┬Àer

/╦êout╦îl─½ər/

noun

A person or thing differing from all other members of a particular group or set.
 
HenryWong122 said:
This specific Bewear is an outlier based on the Dictionary definition of an outlier.
out┬Àli┬Àer

/╦êout╦îl─½ər/

noun

A person or thing differing from all other members of a particular group or set.
Click to expand...
That never stopped Grovyle.

Or that one 2-B Lucario, who has far less business being 2-B than Anime Bewear has being tier 4.
 
HenryWong122 said:
This specific Bewear is an outlier based on the Dictionary definition of an outlier.
out┬Àli┬Àer

/╦êout╦îl─½ər/

noun

A person or thing differing from all other members of a particular group or set.
Click to expand...
Bewear is a species, not a singular entity. If a singular Bewear is an outlier of its species, it doesn't make that Bewear's feats outliers. It just means that single Bewear is vastly different from the rest of its species.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
HenryWong122 said:
This specific Bewear is an outlier based on the Dictionary definition of an outlier.
out┬Àli┬Àer

/╦êout╦îl─½ər/

noun

A person or thing differing from all other members of a particular group or set.
Click to expand...
Bewear is a species, not a singular entity. If a singular Bewear is an outlier of its species, it doesn't make that Bewear's feats outliers. It just means that single Bewear is vastly different from the rest of its species.
Click to expand...
NO ******* SHIT!!!
 
Taking a definition to face value isn't going to fix or solve anything, or sort out any disagreements.

The best way to go about this is to agree on a logical definition of outlier for the wiki, including prerequisites and exceptions, then apply it until it stops being sound, which is when we rewrite or tweak it.

And right now, I'm in favour of not calling this Bewear an outlier by the wiki's definition, which would prevent her from being tiered, even though she is technically an outlier as a member of a species.
 
You're...pretty damn salty for no reason. Go take a shower and cool off.

The point being made is that Bewear itself isn't an outlier in regards to its own power. Its power is consistently absurd. It's only an outlier relative to other Bewear, which has no bearing on its own capabilities.

Consider Saiyans, Humans, Pikachu and basically any other species across all of fiction. Ash's Pikachu isn't dismissed as an outlier just because it's way stronger than other members of its species. The only things dismissed regarding it would be when it has a wildly powerful feat/scaling which is an oddity among previous and later feats.

In other words, Bewear is an outlier from its species but its own feats aren't outliers to itself.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
You're...pretty damn salty for no reason. Go take a shower and cool off.
The point being made is that Bewear itself isn't an outlier in regards to its own power. Its power is consistently absurd. It's only an outlier relative to other Bewear, which has no bearing on its own capabilities.

Consider Saiyans, Humans, Pikachu and basically any other species across all of fiction. Ash's Pikachu isn't dismissed as an outlier just because it's way stronger than other members of its species. The only things dismissed regarding it would be when it has a wildly powerful feat/scaling which is an oddity among previous and later feats.

In other words, Bewear is an outlier from its species but its own feats aren't outliers to itself.
Click to expand...
I understand this! Are you people joking or just stupid?
 
Lets try to avoid talking down to anyone just in case and lets instead move on.

Go back to the original points and let a moderator handle any continued commotion.

In which case... I'm in favour of this Bewear getting a key.
 
SauceSorcery said:
Lets try to avoid talking down to anyone just in case and lets instead move on.
Go back to the original points and let a moderator handle any continued commotion.

In which case... I'm in favour of this Bewear getting a key.
Click to expand...
yes
 
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