Ben Tennyson (Omniverse) Vs Ash ketchum (Pokemon)

[Gohanblanco217]

dammit ben is so strong but he always somehow loses.

I know right?

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Ash : 3

Ben :

Incon :

Only 4 votes left

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Bump

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Correction: only when he is in mortal danger aka the attack is guaranteed to kill Ben without failsafe intervening and automatically transforming him. Other lesser functions such as getting the right alien by transforming regularly can be without mortal danger but aren’t too relevant here since Ben has master control so he won’t “mistransform”.

im just wondering how it will figure out how a tiny mouse running at a semi-high speed is gonna deal high 7-A+ damage. Because pikachu leads with a quick attack

Did you 2 vote yet?

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Bump

 

[Arceus0x]

Ash vote

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Alright 3 votes left

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Bump

 

[StekFence]

It seems ash would likely win here to me.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

2 votes left

 

[StekFence]

although that supposes ash is using melmetal or nag as one of his 6 pokes. Would be a shame if he was just using like, 6 Tauros.

 

[Greenshifter]

Goodluck absorbing a punch.

Feedback: Challenge accepted.

So eh do we count Goop’s High regen or not, because the only feat I can recall that’s at least as high as what’s currently on his page… is getting atomized?

Yes it does, the thing that gets vaporized is the device on his head.

I mean assuming that is the only thing then Ben can still just transform into another alien with a thought and the Omnitrix will just make a new anti-gravity projector for the next transformation. Meaning that Ash can’t really kill Ben with anything regardless.

IDK about this honestly.

The second clip he didn’t even lose the alien and “losing an alien” is irrelevant with master control since they just get removed from the active playlist since Ben 10,000 could easily restore them. But with Master control there’s no playlist, Ben just has access to all aliens in the codon stream.

Fire/pure energy

cough radiation.

I'm not tho it's just that I sometimes like to debate even when it comes to my thread (yeah I don't like to stay like this when I see other people debating it's very boring lmao ) but yeah I hink I'll stop talking sorry lol

Honestly just ask DemonicDude or the other Ben 10 people to create the threads for you so you can debate without coming across as biased.

“dammit ben is so strong but he always somehow loses.”

People don’t know how to argue him usually, although it usually requires niche facts and knowing all aliens’ abilities by heart to argue him properly. And even then you still get insulted of not giving one consistent narrative supposedly or getting away with things on technicality due to not giving feats for literally every damn alien involved in the fight.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

radiation

btw doesn't OV Ben has automatic DNA scanning? I mean when Ben once was in danger the Omnitrix automatically launched a DNA scanning and gived him a new transformation, the problem is Idk if Ben can scan pokemons.....

Honestly just ask DemonicDude or the other Ben 10 people to create the threads for you so you can debate without coming across as biased.

Seems weird tbh

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Here look at 9:25 the Omnitrix automatically analyzed the DNA of a new life form without Ben's permission when Ben was in danger

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Voting ben FRA

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Bump

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Feedback: Challenge accepted.

no.

So eh do we count Goop’s High regen or not, because the only feat I can recall that’s at least as high as what’s currently on his page… is getting atomized?

he's mid high regen, I don't think ash can bypass that but I'm not sure.

I mean assuming that is the only thing then Ben can still just transform into another alien with a thought and the Omnitrix will just make a new anti-gravity projector for the next transformation. Meaning that Ash can’t really kill Ben with anything regardless.

Well ben will just keep cycling through his aliens until only goop is left which would lead to him getting slapped.

The second clip he didn’t even lose the alien and “losing an alien” is irrelevant with master control since they just get removed from the active playlist since Ben 10,000 could easily restore them. But with Master control there’s no playlist, Ben just has access to all aliens in the codon stream.

Wait so you're saying that ben doesn't die at all or are you saying that ash has to cycle through every single alien in the codon stream and kill them all?

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Wait so you're saying that ben doesn't die at all or are you saying that ash has to cycle through every single alien in the codon stream and kill them all?

Yeah with Master Control activated you can't kill Ben at all unless you can somehow blitz him before he transforms IIRC

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Yeah with Master Control activated you can't kill Ben at all unless you can somehow blitz him before he transforms IIRC

Okay before I respond to this. How is speed equalized? If both start in base then ben amps to MFTL+ with his strongest dudes, while ash is like way faster with his strongest dudes, so how exactly is speed equalized, is EVERYONE the same speed?

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Okay before I respond to this. How is speed equalized? If both start in base then ben amps to MFTL+ with his strongest dudes, while ash is like way faster with his strongest dudes, so how exactly is speed equalized, is EVERYONE the same speed?

Yes everyone is the same speed

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Yes everyone is the same speed

I don't know if you can do that, then amps won't give speed boost they should but I'm not entirely sure I'll just continue as if it's fine.
If ben is using master control then the only way to beat him is to blitz the omnitrix , if everyone is the same speed, then pikachu can speed amp with agility and then blitz the omnitrix, but then a match where a speed blitz is the reason for winning of the slower character can't be added, so the only way for this to be fair is if master control is restricted. Sorry.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

I don't know if you can do that, then amps won't give speed boost they should but I'm not entirely sure I'll just continue as if it's fine.
If ben is using master control then the only way to beat him is to blitz the omnitrix , if everyone is the same speed, then pikachu can speed amp with agility and then blitz the omnitrix, but then a match where a speed blitz is the reason for winning of the slower character can't be added, so the only way for this to be fair is if master control is restricted. Sorry.

Eh if I restrict master control it means :

1) Ben can not freely switch between aliens

2) no Faile safe

3) the Omnitrix can time out

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Eh if I restrict master control it means :

1) Ben can not freely switch between aliens

2) no Faile safe

3) the Omnitrix can time out

1. he can but very limited.
2. what? why that should still work right?
Ben can still win right?

 

[Gohanblanco217]

1. he can but very limited

Yes and how wouldn't that be a stomp in Ash favor?

2. what? why that should still work right?

Nope

Ben can still win right?

Don't think so

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Yes and how wouldn't that be a stomp in Ash favor?



Nope



Don't think so

I think this is a mismatch honestly, I don't see either winning with and without master control. The only thing ben can do really is clock work and then time hax each of them but that's like extremely unlikely, and even if he gets him, he'll probably still end up being squashed.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

I think this is a mismatch honestly, I don't see either winning with and without master control. The only thing ben can do really is clock work and then time hax each of them but that's like extremely unlikely, and even if he gets him, he'll probably still end up being squashed.

Pretty sure this one is fair Ash can one shot with any of his Pokemons which is a win con while Ben has Master Control and the Omnitrix can automatically scan the DNA of the Pokemons + Clockwork which is also a wincon

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Pretty sure this one is fair Ash can one shot with any of his Pokemons which is a win con while Ben has Master Control and the Omnitrix can automatically scan the DNA of the Pokemons + Clockwork which is also a wincon

Ash can one shot, but ben will never die, and eventually he'll win.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Ash can one shot, but ben will never die, and eventually he'll win.

You do realize both in character? Incap and KO is an option

 

[Greenshifter]

btw doesn't OV Ben has automatic DNA scanning?

Considering it disables transforming until he’s done scanning I’m not sure you’d want to argue he scans first lol. But yeah I guess he should have automatic scanning with the last Omnitrix, like not even a beam.

I mean when Ben once was in danger the Omnitrix automatically launched a DNA scanning

That might be a coincidence.

the problem is Idk if Ben can scan pokemons.....

Yeah he should be able to, they might be more intelligent than himself at times kek.

Seems weird tbh

I doubt DD cares.

no.

He absorbed the Big Bang, that’s basically all punches that will ever be thrown in one attack lol, Kinetic energy absorption/speed steal gg .

he's mid high regen

Based on what feat?

Well ben will just keep cycling through his aliens until only goop is left which would lead to him getting slapped.

Not really, did you miss like my entire explanation? He won’t lose transformations and either the Omnitrix itself regens him or he transforms into Goop who gets vaporized and then transforms into someone else. Like eventually Ash will just stop trying to kill him since it won’t work.

Wait so you're saying that ben doesn't die at all

Yes.

Yes everyone is the same speed

I’d say everything minus the Omnitrix (maybe speedsters as well, Pikachu and XLR8 for instance might be relatively faster than Ash’s other mons and Ben’s other aliens), it causes some problems with ultimates (which I know he doesn’t have here but then there’d be a discrepancy between Ben and Albedo matches) and transformation sequences otherwise.

 

[Greenshifter]

1) Ben can not freely switch between aliens

2) no Faile safe

1) is sorta wrong, he can change manually.

2) is false, that has nothing to do with MC.

3) the Omnitrix can time out

3) It’ll time in if he’s in mortal danger.

 

[Greenshifter]

So anyways, put everything speed equalized besides the Omnitrix and speedsters, they should be relatively faster, so we don’t have this blitzing the omnitrix which should be faster thing going on and so we don’t have discrepancy between Ultimatrix and Omnitrix matches. That should fix most of the problems here, after that it’s just arguing hax tbh.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

You do realize both in character? Incap and KO is an option

I forgot about that, well I think pikachu can paralyze and then a strong pokemon can KO?

 

[Greenshifter]

Can the Pkmn know exactly how strong Ben is in a given form in order to KO him without killing?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Can the Pkmn know exactly how strong Ben is in a given form in order to KO him without killing?

IDK, from what I see, ash's pokemon can't tell, but there is a way to get around this, let's say melmetal crushes and kills ben he'll know roughly how strong he is in one form, then bens failsave turns him into goop, then if melmetal or any other pokemon either destroys goops device or sees a pokemon they've already fought, then they'd be able to incapacitate and win.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Considering it disables transforming until he’s done scanning

It only takes like 2 seconds

I’m not sure you’d want to argue he scans first lol.

I mean it's done without Ben's permission so....

That might be a coincidence.

I mean it scanned the Alien who was threating Ben's life by mind controlling other people to attack Ben I don't think it's just a coincidence.

Yeah he should be able to, they might be more intelligent than himself at times kek.

Ummm you think he can scan all types of Pokemons?

1) is sorta wrong, he can change manually.

But not with a thought like MC does

) is false, that has nothing to do with MC.

I thought MC was required for this kind of stuff

3) It’ll time in if he’s in mortal danger

Yeah you are right

 

[Sonicflare9]

ash fra

 

[Greenshifter]

let's say melmetal crushes and kills ben he'll know roughly how strong he is in one form, then bens failsave turns him into goop

He’s turn into Goop right before dying. So Melmetal wouldn’t know anything by that.

then if melmetal or any other pokemon either destroys goops device

Ben switching with a thought would essentially repair it or make a new one.

It only takes like 2 seconds

Meh pretty sure it was longer against Vladat.

I mean it's done without Ben's permission so....

Fair, no idea how this interacts with failsafe or Master Control btw.

I mean it scanned the Alien who was threating Ben's life by mind controlling other people to attack Ben I don't think it's just a coincidence.

Dude Ben was literally in a spaceship and the Omnitrix was gonna blow up or disable or something if he didn’t go to Vladat because it was a new DNA sample. That’s like the opposite of protecting his life by scanning.

Ummm you think he can scan all types of Pokemons?

Everyone who ain’t an abstract I guess.

I thought MC was required for this kind of stuff

Ben has never had Master Control in Omniverse…

ash fra

Based on what reasoning btw? Pretty sure I debunked everything and shifted wincons to hax and incap, which no-one argued yet for either party.

@Gohanblanco217 Vote null or not (yet) btw?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Ben switching with a thought would essentially repair it or make a new one.

So if ben is in an alien, and then melmetal attacks him, and the omnitrix reacts and turns him to goop, good is the one crushed, but he's crushed along with his device too especially if it's a large AoE attack which would result in an incapacitation.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Meh pretty sure it was longer against Vladat

Umm scans?

Fair, no idea how this interacts with failsafe

Never mind

Dude Ben was literally in a spaceship and the Omnitrix was gonna blow up or disable or something if he didn’t go to Vladat because it was a new DNA sample

Does it activate at random? How does the new DNA scanning function work exactly?

Ben has never had Master Control in Omniverse…

Wait MC doesn't exist in OV version of the Omnitrix?

 

[Greenshifter]

but he's crushed along with his device too especially if it's a large AoE attack which would result in an incapacitation.

His mind isn’t in the device, thus he switches to another alien with a thought. Rinse and repeat till Ash realizes it ain’t gonna work.

Umm scans?

Dude you go get scans. We’re already shortstaffed when it comes to Ben 10. I already debate your matches. Besides some of the scans I can’t even share cause it’d be illegal so I’d have to ask DD to make a gif out of them.

Does it activate at random? How does the new DNA scanning function work exactly?

It activates when a new DNA sample is within a few kilometers of Ben, urges Ben to get closer. Once close enough it just scans the sample without any visible beam.

Wait MC doesn't exist in OV version of the Omnitrix?

We know it exists, but Ben never got access to it. It should at least be able to do what the prototype Omnitrix can do though.