Ben 10: immortality Type 9, or Note.

[Reiner04]

Alien X conciousness can exist independent of his body as hinted by Quotes such as:

You see, Before you Showed up, Alien X was always in a deadlock but now we finally found a Tie breaker how could we ever let you go? ~Serena

Bellicus and I have lost in a eternal arguement. ~Serena

Source: Episode: Ben 10; Ben + 2 = X

Alien X body shouldn't be existing unless Ben transforms into him as his transformations are mere his reflection which cannot take physical form w/o ben transforming into one and exist as mere DNA/Data but as implied before his conciousness were always existing since eternity arguing.

Also, As was shown during the events of So long and thanks for smoothies that Alien X powers comes from his personalities and pocket Dimension, so he doesn't needs a physical body to use his powers and anyway can make it anytime just like he created his duplicates and Universe if ever want:



Agree: @Abstractly_a_Protagonist, @Greenshifter, @ImmortalDread (note), @LuffyRuffy46307, @DemonicDude, @Aachintya31, @ShionAH (for type 2 and incorprality), @Phsccarvalho, @DonkeySlayer06, @TheGreatJedi13, @Boyinluv2002, @Firestorm808(Type 9), @DarkDragonMedeus (Type 9)

Disagree: @Purgy, @ShionAH (with Type 9)

 

[ImmortalDread]

Ya I agree with adding a note regarding the weakness

 

[Reiner04]

Ya I agree with adding a note regarding the weakness

How is this a weakness?

 

[ShionAH]

I agree with Immortality 2 and Incorpreality

 

[Purgy]

This is a massive reach, we never see Alien X do anything without it's body and almost all of his moves require hand motions etc anyway.

 

[Reiner04]

Sure, justification is that important for me than ability.

 

[Reiner04]

This is a massive reach, we never see Alien X do anything without it's body and almost all of his moves require hand motions etc anyway.

Him moving is body for whatever purpose doesn't restrict his powers which are thought based, characters moves their bodies and hands in fiction as for it is in their character than anything that has to do with smth important many times.

In anycase, serena bellicus has said that Alien X was always in a deadlock before ben showed up means they could and were arguing on what to do.

 

[Reiner04]

For the record when Albedo transformed into Alien X, serena bellicus were already arguing their around million-th case on what to do or maybe more. I don't exactly remember the number of zeros.

 

[Purgy]

Him moving is body for whatever purpose doesn't restrict his powers which are thought based, characters moves their bodies and hands in fiction as for it is in their character than anything that has to do with smth important many times.

In anycase, serena bellicus has said that Alien X was always in a deadlock before ben showed up means they could and were arguing on what to do.

If a character has to make a motion or gesture then the move isn't entirely thought based.

The problem is that the last part is never given any explanation, it's way too vague imo.

 

[Greenshifter]

If a character has to make a motion or gesture then the move isn't entirely thought based

Prove he has to make a motion or gesture

 

[Reiner04]

If a character has to make a motion or gesture then the move isn't entirely thought based.

No, not necessarily, it's just can be in Alien X character to make moves, we have seen various Aliens to shout out their names including Alien X that doesn't mean anything more than artistic purpose, we can't have a character doing nothing but standing still and doing everything with thoughts, it's lame and won't look good. It has been stated various times that his powers are thought based but I am not denying that he'll make gesture as in character if body exist.

The problem is that the last part is never given any explanation, it's way too vague imo.

I mean, if serena bellicus existed always since eternity even w/o a physical body in a eternal arguements and have been arguing millions of cases (I am lowballing as the number) then it's kind of given.

 

[ShionAH]

Prove he has to make a motion or gesture

Prove he can do it with a thought. We have scans you dont so burden of proof is on you

 

[Reiner04]

Prove he can do it with a thought. We have scans you dont so burden of proof is on you

His powers are literally thought based with dozen of scans and official medias in his profile saying so.

 

[ShionAH]

His powers are literally thought based with dozen of scans and official medias in his profile saying so.

What? The only time they said thought stuff is on that shitty card of his where his imagination comes to reality or whateber

 

[Greenshifter]

Prove he can do it with a thought. We have scans you dont so burden of proof is on you

See what Reiner said, also I’m elaborating on the other thread that the pocket dimension is not inside of the universe in any way, shape or form and thus disconnected from the body. Meaning that the body is literally a puppet that needs to controlled from a distance at that point, meaning there is no logical reason for his body’s actions to affect the effectiveness of the haxes that he used

 

[Purgy]

Prove he has to make a motion or gesture

He does it for the majority of his moves.

Forewarning though, I'm not going to entertain the "it's just for the audience!" argument, it's stupid and baseless, here's what true thought based reality warping looks like.

 

[Greenshifter]

He does it for the majority of his moves.

Forewarning though, I'm not going to entertain the "it's just for the audience!" argument, it's stupid and baseless, here's what true thought based reality warping looks like.

I don’t care about author intent, Ben just likes to do that

 

[Reiner04]

He makes gesture is not a argument when we realise that it can simply be artistic choice, what matters is that if his powers are thought based or not then gesture is simply a artistic choice.

What? The only time they said thought stuff is on that shitty card of his where his imagination comes to reality or whateber

Dozens are there, almost every merchandise has mentioned it. And servatis as well said he can wish everything out of Existence, paradox said where ideas become real. Can't believe we are arguing it ngl.

 

[Purgy]

His powers are literally thought based with dozen of scans and official medias in his profile saying so.

You misunderstand completely, I never said his powers weren't thought based, I said truly or entirely thought based, of course Alien X's ability is thought based reality warping, but it requires motions as well.

 

[ShionAH]

Dozens are there, almost every merchandise has mentioned it.

Show?

And servatis as well said he can wish everything out of Existence,

Wish everything out of existence does not mean its thought based. It can mean everything without conte

paradox said where ideas become real.

“I have an idea lets go rob this bank”
“Alright”
We rob the bank and our idea becomes reality

 

[Reiner04]

You misunderstand completely, I never said his powers weren't thought based, I said truly or entirely thought based, of course Alien X's ability is thought based reality warping, but it requires motions as well.

Then motion can simply be artistic, it's better arguing for vs matches then something in a crt, I mean, his powers comes from his conciousness and thoughts, I don't know what motion has anything to do here. Even Ben fears to turn into one just because of how dangerous it can be.

 

[Purgy]

Then motion can simply be artistic, it's better arguing for vs matches then something in a crt, I mean, his powers comes from his conciousness and thoughts, I don't know what motion has anything to do here. Even Ben fears to turn into one just because of how dangerous it can be.

You can say it's just artistic, I say otherwise, he explicitly uses hand motions to direct his moves many times.

 

[Reiner04]

Show?

Just check any of his merchandise man, it's known in all ben 10 franchise that his thoughts becomes real.

Also, serena bellicus already said that due to not coming to conclusion they weren't acting since eternity.

 

[Reiner04]

You can say it's just artistic, I say otherwise, he explicitly uses hand motions to direct his moves many times.

I concur, I respect your decision, but disagree.

 

[ShionAH]

I alao disagree that it is combat appicable. Though I can agree with Immortality 8 thats not useable in combat

 

[Greenshifter]

You can say it's just artistic, I say otherwise, he explicitly uses hand motions to direct his moves many times.

If we have evidence to suggest that it's all thought-based then what you think doesn't matter, you need a contradiction at that point.

I alao disagree that it is combat appicable. Though I can agree with Immortality 8 thats not useable in combat

Why is is non-combat applicable?

 

[ShionAH]

Why is is non-combat applicable?

How is Alien X gonna fight when he gets lowered to a DNA inside omnitrix?

 

[Purgy]

If we have evidence to suggest that it's all thought-based then what you think doesn't matter, you need a contradiction at that point.

Why is is non-combat applicable?

The thing is that you don't though, a move can both originate from thought and still require hand motions to direct/activate, that's what you're not understanding.

And the simple fact that Alien X repeatedly does use motions to do practically anything would be in itself a contradiction, you may not consider it one but I certaintly would.

Regardless, as Reiner said, this isn't the place to discuss it.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

How is Alien X gonna fight when he gets lowered to a DNA inside omnitrix?

Simply recreate your body?

 

[Reiner04]

Anyway, as I and purgy said, his powers are thought based and his ideas can become real. His point is that he needs hand motion or gesture to redirect those, I said it's just artistic choice and agree to disagree on it. So we cannot argue that any further.

 

[Greenshifter]

How is Alien X gonna fight when he gets lowered to a DNA inside omnitrix?

Just recreate his body, also on Primus, not in the Omnitrix.

 

[ShionAH]

Simply recreate your body?

Just recreate his body, also on Primus, not in the Omnitrix.

How will he do that? He is a DNA.

 

[Greenshifter]

There's also theoretically Bellicus and Serena being able to come to a conclusion on any of the millions of topics they discussed at a point where they had no limbs available and they would still be able to execute it.

 

[Greenshifter]

How will he do that? He is a DNA.

Will it so, send an energy ripple from the consciousnesses to his DNA to reform his body.

 

[Reiner04]

Oh well, Alien X DNA do be scattering all over, like one in primus, other in albedos omnitrix, and across spacetime.

How will he do that? He is a DNA.

Alien X can just recreate his body as he created entire universe and everything in it. His powers can work on himself anyway.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Just recreate his body, also on Primus, not in the Omnitrix.

There is this here, but I don't know if the wiki considers it valid.

How will he do that? He is a DNA.

Let's say.

Ben transformed into Alien X, and then Alien X's body was erased with nothing left.

When Ben transforms into Alien X, both he and his regolith are in his pocket dimension. So part of the Alien X DNA is still in that watch.

 

[ShionAH]

Will it so, send an energy ripple from the consciousnesses to his DNA to reform his body.

They need ben to do that which was the reason they wanted to keep him

 

[Greenshifter]

There is this here, but I don't know if the wiki considers it valid.

We don't.

 

[Greenshifter]

They need ben to do that which was the reason they wanted to keep him

Incorrect, they needed Ben to come to a conclusion, they explicitly don't need Ben for anything else.

 

[Purgy]

Alien X would need Low-Godly to recreate it's body, right now he only has Mid-High.