Ben 10 General Discussion Thread

[GeneralSol16]

• Dagon underestimates George in their first battle, leading to his defeat.
• Dagon doesn’t underestimate George in their second battle, is very confident in being able to win and kills George with basically no effort once he felt like it.

Yeh

• Ultimate Vilgax was terrified of Ascalon and got completely owned in his “fight” with Ben (The fight sucked balls but the intention seemed to be for Ben to beat Vilgax easily).

I don't see it that way.
Vilgax was confirmed to be stronger than Ascalon n'y merch, himself and the battle itself, being able to overpower him with little effort.
Vilgax was scared of Eatle, as funny as that can be.

Looking at it under this lens, idk how I’m supposed to see this in any way other than Ben being stronger than George with Ascalon. My guess is this is just because George is a tired old man even in his “rejuvenated” body and can’t use the sword to its full effectiveness (maybe it’s focusing some of its power on keeping George fit for battle?), since it’s lampshaded by Chromastone earlier and it’s the only reason I can think of for Vilgax to think that Ascalon is so scary. Originally I was against this idea, but now I’m not sure why I ever was.

EDIT:


Actually wait, perhaps its power is based on worthiness? Modern day George is a lot less worthy of the sword so that could play a factor in its strength.

Actually, that makes sense

 

[Ghengiroo115]

I don't see it that way.
Vilgax was confirmed to be stronger than Ascalon n'y merch, himself and the battle itself, being able to overpower him with little effort.
Vilgax was scared of Eatle, as funny as that can be.

By “Ultimate Vilgax” I meant Dagonax. I forgot that Vilcubra and Dagonax shared the Ultimate Vilgax name, so that’s my B. Though Vilcubra being able to fight against George so easily kinda furthers this point.

 

[GeneralSol16]

By “Ultimate Vilgax” I meant Dagonax. I forgot that Vilcubra and Dagonax shared the Ultimate Vilgax name, so that’s my B. Though Vilcubra being able to fight against George so easily kinda furthers this point.

An argument for Ben being > George could be the way the Ascalon ans the Ultimatrix work together, apparently


Vilgax says that Ben has the power of Ascalon AND the Ultimateox (plus Dagpn, but that's not the point), so, we know that using them together gives the sword some kind of buff, and a reason on why Ben was able to overpower Dagonax so easily.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

An argument for Ben being > George could be the way the Ascalon ans the Ultimatrix work together, apparently


Vilgax says that Ben has the power of Ascalon AND the Ultimateox (plus Dagpn, but that's not the point), so, we know that using them together gives the sword some kind of buff, and a reason on why Ben was able to overpower Dagonax so easily.

Yeah that’s certainly possible. I feel the Ultimatrix making Ben generally stronger (though only with Ascalon apparently) is a bit strange, plus Vilgax even knowing that’s the case kinda makes no sense, however the way his dialogue is phrased does imply that to be the case.

 

[BlastX]

I just assumed it was about using the Ultimatrix power alongside Ascalon, like transforming and empowering his aliens with it.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

I just assumed it was about using the Ultimatrix power alongside Ascalon, like transforming and empowering his aliens with it.

Yeah that’s how I’ve always seen it, but the line is phrased weirdly. Maybe I’m just looking too deep into it.

 

[BlastX]

The mutant Galvanic Mechamorph vs The Egg Doctor (Past Malware VS Classic Eggman)

I wanted to make this match up once I finished my Malware CRT. It's Third Form Malware from the past VS Classic Eggman and his army. Eggman has access to anything up to 5-A levels of power. Battle takes place in Ange Island in Marble Garden but they can move to other locations. Speed...

vsbattles.com

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Ok guys, a question:

So we know that when the Chronosapien Time Bomb erased the Prime timeline, it didn’t cause any chain reaction that caused all other timelines to cease to exist or anything. However we also know that the Chronosapien Time Bomb didn’t erase all of the Prime timeline. If something did erase the entire Prime timeline, would it cause a chain reaction? I mean, everything branches off from the Prime timeline, so we would assume it would right?

Btw for anyone wondering why I’m asking such an odd question, I’m trying to see if I can rationalise Eon’s kinda contradictory timeline level statement (affects only the Prime timeline yet was going to become the only Ben?).

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Y’know I just thought of something, was it ever explained how Ben Prime and Ultimate Ben were supposed to destroy the Hands of Armageddon in every reality? Like as far as I can remember, Paradox says “you gotta destroy the Hands throughout all of space-time” and then it just cuts to the Bens turning into Way Big/Clockwork. Were they doing it via Clockwork’s powers or something?

 

[GeneralSol16]

Y’know I just thought of something, was it ever explained how Ben Prime and Ultimate Ben were supposed to destroy the Hands of Armageddon in every reality? Like as far as I can remember, Paradox says “you gotta destroy the Hands throughout all of space-time” and then it just cuts to the Bens turning into Way Big/Clockwork. Were they doing it via Clockwork’s powers or something?

Destroying the Prime version would destroy all of them.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Destroying the Prime version would destroy all of them.

Oh right, yeah. Silly me.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Btw I’ve been thinking, and the parallel world statement for Rex’s dimension might be referring to it being an alternate timeline instead? Or maybe it doesn’t, idk I’m torn. The big issue comes from how the only other usage of the phrase “parallel world” outside of Heroes United (at least to my knowledge) is found in Ben 10,000 Returns, which is very obviously referring to alternate timelines. There’s also the fact that this dimension contains a version of Earth and apparently has an “excellent chance” of having its own Ben, which is kinda wacky.

Of course there are a few potential issues with this:

1. Ben says he goes to parallel worlds “all the time”, which would be assumed to just be some random unseen timelines Ben explored off-screen if that’s what they were really referring to. This doesn’t really make sense from a narrative front since it makes it sound like travelling to alternate timelines is a common occurrence in Ultimate Alien, which is kinda clickbait for the Gen Rex viewers watching the special (remember that HU is a Gen Rex episode, not a Ben 10 episode). On the other hand though, referring to stuff like the Null Void or Legerdomain as “parallel worlds” doesn’t really make logical sense either.
2. No Watch Ben’s timeline is repeatedly stated to be both the only one without an Omnitrix and the only one where Ben hadn’t heard of the Omnitrix. Tbh though I think this one is a non-issue as we can just assume the Omnitrix was sent down to Earth at some point. Rex’s dimension being an alternate branching timeline would mean beings like Azmuth should still exist, so it’s not out of the realm of possibility.
3. I think this is the most damning issue, but in the Heroes Time Two comic it’s stated that the Pack found Ben across “millions of dimensions” by locking onto the Ultimatrix’s signal, suggesting it’s one of a kind as far as they can reach. This makes zero sense if Rex’s dimension is actually an alternate timeline, and I can’t think of an explanation for this either. (Btw the link to the scan for this on the cosmology page is dead)

Idk, what are everyone’s thought on this? Btw going the alternate timeline route would forfeit the millions/infinite dimensions statements for a timeline, however it further strengthens infinite timelines. Also while I admittedly don’t really understand the reasoning for how a single timeline became solid 2-A, I think it was from some weird hypertimeline malarkey that I assume would still work if a timeline only had a hundred dimensions instead of millions/infinite.

 

[Spilxson2]

What's the explanation behind aliens being large planet level again?

 

[BlastX]

From Humungousaur who downscales 1/10th from his Ultimate Form who scales to Ultimate Kevin who downscales 1/10th from Way Big.

Classic/OV Flashback aliens get it from Vilgax who's 1/10th of his UAF self.

It's in the scaling Chain part of the verse page, so It's not like it's hard to find.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Alternate universe where the omnitrix landed in Japan instead of america

 

[Executor_N0]

Dwayne McDuffie's new website was released with a ton of production scripts and series bibles, which reveals the origins of a lot of tie-in media. Like all those Alien X cards saying "transcended our plane of existence" or "the first time Ben takes it, he accidentally destroys a mountain range" all came from these materials. Kinda funny when I remember people thinking that Bandai just had made up those files when that isn't how these things are done. Still, good to see all this material finally released.

 

[NXCHT.66]

Suppose Cosmic Mom has a profile, how should her tier be listed other than "Unknown"

 

[Spilxson2]

Suppose Cosmic Mom has a profile, how should her tier be listed other than "Unknown"

Probably "varies with the naljian destructor". I already have a CSAP wiki profile about the abilities she could have

 

[DemonicDude]

@Hellformer @Gendolfgg1 @Spilxson2 @REX9097 @BlastX @Spectral69420

I don't know if this is something I posted here or not, but I believe in 2020 I downloaded every Ben 10 comic released by Cartoon Network and IDW and uploaded them. Just in case we might end up finding more Canon events or even feats

I'm posting the link again.


(Classic +Omniverse): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Yid5xyyn5Gzn__-F1ZmD-HZbkRJ1aT-d?usp=share_link

(Ultimate Alien):
Link 2

Ben 10 Alien Force: DOOM DIMENSION 1
Link 3

Ben 10 Alien Force DOOM DIMENSION 2

Ben 10 Ultimate Alien: Time Saver
Link 4

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Hey guys, a question: how often does significantly affecting the past change the future and how often does it not? For example Ben saving Paradox’s assistant in the past caused the present to also change, however when the Prime timeline was destroyed by the Chronosapien Time Bomb it had no effect on the No Watch timeline.

 

[GeneralSol16]

What do you guys think?

Atomix vs Ultimate Way Big | 0-0-0

A classic Ben 10 vs Albedo, but now, they'll use his strongest non Alien X transformation. Atomix: Ultimate Way Big: Feedbacks appears and destroy them both (Incon):

vsbattles.com

 

[BlastX]

How different Alien Force and beyond you think will be if instead of starting with the Alien Force batch, Ben actually started his "Fourth" batch of non-scanned aliens?

For context this batch consists off:
-Lodestar
-Rath
-Fasttrack
-Shocksquatch
-Eatle
-Clockwork
-Jury Rigg
-Bloxx
-Gravattack
-Crashhopper

 

[NXCHT.66]

Alright, greetings to all Ben 10 fans and experts who are reading this message. I need your help. To clarify, I’m working on creating a profile for Max, and I’d like to get feedback from all of you first. Could you please review everything, check the feats, scans, and the overall reasoning behind the content? Then, kindly share your thoughts in case there’s anything I’ve missed or needs fixing. I truly appreciate all the help. Thank you so much!

NXCHT.66/Sandbox2

vsbattles.fandom.com

This is what Antvasima really wants.

NXCHT.66

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Hellformer]

Btw I’ve been thinking, and the parallel world statement for Rex’s dimension might be referring to it being an alternate timeline instead? Or maybe it doesn’t, idk I’m torn. The big issue comes from how the only other usage of the phrase “parallel world” outside of Heroes United (at least to my knowledge) is found in Ben 10,000 Returns, which is very obviously referring to alternate timelines. There’s also the fact that this dimension contains a version of Earth and apparently has an “excellent chance” of having its own Ben, which is kinda wacky.

Of course there are a few potential issues with this:

1. Ben says he goes to parallel worlds “all the time”, which would be assumed to just be some random unseen timelines Ben explored off-screen if that’s what they were really referring to. This doesn’t really make sense from a narrative front since it makes it sound like travelling to alternate timelines is a common occurrence in Ultimate Alien, which is kinda clickbait for the Gen Rex viewers watching the special (remember that HU is a Gen Rex episode, not a Ben 10 episode). On the other hand though, referring to stuff like the Null Void or Legerdomain as “parallel worlds” doesn’t really make logical sense either.
2. No Watch Ben’s timeline is repeatedly stated to be both the only one without an Omnitrix and the only one where Ben hadn’t heard of the Omnitrix. Tbh though I think this one is a non-issue as we can just assume the Omnitrix was sent down to Earth at some point. Rex’s dimension being an alternate branching timeline would mean beings like Azmuth should still exist, so it’s not out of the realm of possibility.
3. I think this is the most damning issue, but in the Heroes Time Two comic it’s stated that the Pack found Ben across “millions of dimensions” by locking onto the Ultimatrix’s signal, suggesting it’s one of a kind as far as they can reach. This makes zero sense if Rex’s dimension is actually an alternate timeline, and I can’t think of an explanation for this either. (Btw the link to the scan for this on the cosmology page is dead)

Idk, what are everyone’s thought on this? Btw going the alternate timeline route would forfeit the millions/infinite dimensions statements for a timeline, however it further strengthens infinite timelines. Also while I admittedly don’t really understand the reasoning for how a single timeline became solid 2-A, I think it was from some weird hypertimeline malarkey that I assume would still work if a timeline only had a hundred dimensions instead of millions/infinite.

It's a seperate Annihilarrgh Universe actually which will be discussed in another thread

 

[Hellformer]

Alright, greetings to all Ben 10 fans and experts who are reading this message. I need your help. To clarify, I’m working on creating a profile for Max, and I’d like to get feedback from all of you first. Could you please review everything, check the feats, scans, and the overall reasoning behind the content? Then, kindly share your thoughts in case there’s anything I’ve missed or needs fixing. I truly appreciate all the help. Thank you so much!

NXCHT.66/Sandbox2

vsbattles.fandom.com

This is what Antvasima really wants.

NXCHT.66

vsbattles.fandom.com

I see this as a perfect profile but I might be wrong

 

[Success0906]

Alright, greetings to all Ben 10 fans and experts who are reading this message. I need your help. To clarify, I’m working on creating a profile for Max, and I’d like to get feedback from all of you first. Could you please review everything, check the feats, scans, and the overall reasoning behind the content? Then, kindly share your thoughts in case there’s anything I’ve missed or needs fixing. I truly appreciate all the help. Thank you so much!

NXCHT.66/Sandbox2

vsbattles.fandom.com

This is what Antvasima really wants.

NXCHT.66

vsbattles.fandom.com

Seems perfect with a few grammar mistakes, but perfect nonetheless. I will fix the errors once you give me the go.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

I love ben 10 I wish the franchise wasn't so dead cartoon network really dropped the ball

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Drago vs Vilgax

Fusion Dragonoid VS Dagonax Starting Distance: 10 Meters Equalized speed Both are struggling with their own state of mind. Drago prefers not to kill, and Vilgax will do anything to prevail. Drago: Vilgax:

vsbattles.com

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

We should remove the armadillo calc, it gets retconned in omniverse since we see armordrillo's homeworld

 

[Spectral69420]

What if it got destroyed some time after Khyber got the Slamworm's sample but before UAF

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

What if it got destroyed some time after Khyber got the Slamworm's sample but before UAF

Wasn’t the nemitrix dna specifically chosen against omnitrix aliens. The omnitrix didn’t get/have access to the andromeda five until UA which is set in the same year as omniverse. It seems more likely that the card is outdated/retconned. Similar to alien x’s homeworld

 

[BlastX]

Wasn’t the nemitrix dna specifically chosen against omnitrix aliens. The omnitrix didn’t get/have access to the andromeda five until UA which is set in the same year as omniverse. It seems more likely that the card is outdated/retconned. Similar to alien x’s homeworld

Khyber was stated to be collecting predator DNA 5 years before Omniverse, it even has Crashopperr predator even though Ben doesn't use him til Omniverse, so what aliens he has available are irrelevant.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Khyber was stated to be collecting predator DNA 5 years before Omniverse, it even has Crashopperr predator even though Ben doesn't use him til Omniverse, so what aliens he has available are irrelevant.

Except it’s grasshopper could

a. Have been found to be in the collected before the nemetrix was in use, since the omnitrix had millions of samples. The andromeda five were only unlocked due to the events of aggregor and didn’t have dna samples

b. Been collected before Ben used grasshopper officially (since we know Ben uses aliens offscreen)

 

[BlastX]

Except it’s grasshopper could

a. Have been found to be in the collected before the nemetrix was in use, since the omnitrix had millions of samples. The andromeda five were only unlocked due to the events of aggregor and didn’t have dna samples

b. Been collected before Ben used grasshopper officially (since we know Ben uses aliens offscreen)

When Ben uses Crashhopper he acts as if he never used it before, so it's his first time.

Hell, in the flashback to the first time the Nemetrix is tested they use Ball Weevil's predator, an alien Ben doesn't use until 5 years later, it's clear they didn't know or care which aliens the Omnitrix had avaible (hell it's possible they just assumed the Andromeda 5 were in the watch).

The other option is that they got slamworm DNA because it was like a better version of Spidermonkey's predator.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Drago vs Vilgax

Fusion Dragonoid VS Dagonax Starting Distance: 10 Meters Equalized speed Both are struggling with their own state of mind. Drago prefers not to kill, and Vilgax will do anything to prevail. Drago: Vilgax:

vsbattles.com

If this match is a stomp, I'll replace Vilgax with Feedback

 

[Ghengiroo115]

It's a seperate Annihilarrgh Universe actually which will be discussed in another thread

Interesting

Alright, greetings to all Ben 10 fans and experts who are reading this message. I need your help. To clarify, I’m working on creating a profile for Max, and I’d like to get feedback from all of you first. Could you please review everything, check the feats, scans, and the overall reasoning behind the content? Then, kindly share your thoughts in case there’s anything I’ve missed or needs fixing. I truly appreciate all the help. Thank you so much!

NXCHT.66/Sandbox2

vsbattles.fandom.com

This is what Antvasima really wants.

NXCHT.66

vsbattles.fandom.com

Looks mostly alright (aside from grammar issues as mentioned by others), however I’m confused on why Max’s OV Plumber armour is Tier 4.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

About the Armodrillo calc stuff: according to Derrick J. Wyatt, Khyber collected the DNA of the 10 predators he considered to be the most powerful and dangerous.

 

[Spectral69420]

I’m confused on why Max’s OV Plumber armour is Tier 4.

He harmed Malgax while using it iirc, and Malgax is tier 4

 

[NXCHT.66]

He harmed Malgax while using it iirc, and Malgax is tier 4

Yes, and I explained that was just AP.

 

[NXCHT.66]

Seems perfect with a few grammar mistakes, but perfect nonetheless. I will fix the errors once you give me the go.

Of course, you can go edit it right away in my sandbox.