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Ben 10 General Discussion Thread

GeneralSol16 said:
Thanks God that's already dead.

CN is mainly focused on the OS tineline or a new series.
Click to expand...
To be honest, I don't even Classify it as dead.
Reboot lasted from 2016 - 2021. which is 5 years. There has been a Ben 10 "individual" show that has lasted for this long, that alone makes it more successful than it's previous predecessors.
Screenshot_20240803-100608.jpg


whole thing in Ben 10 fandom is same as Teen Titans original fans hating TTG without realizing TTG dominated Cartoon network and was watched by millions of kids.
 
DemonicDude said:
To be honest, I don't even Classify it as dead.
Reboot lasted from 2016 - 2021. which is 5 years. There has been a Ben 10 "individual" show that has lasted for this long, that alone makes it more successful than it's previous predecessors.
Screenshot_20240803-100608.jpg


whole thing in Ben 10 fandom is same as Teen Titans original fans hating TTG without realizing TTG dominated Cartoon network and was watched by millions of kids.
Click to expand...
Cuz the OG had all the episodes being premiered at practically the same year, the OS has the same amount of episodes but distributed in two years.

And the RB made less money than the Prime, plus, tue Prime timeline lasted 8 years.
 
Most undeserved multiplier award goes too…

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Verdona

Verdona is the Anodite love interest of Max Tennyson and grandmother of Ben and Gwen. Like all Anodites, Verdona is a free-spirited being. Though sometimes acting more mature and grown-up, she mostly acts like a playful child. Tier: At least 4-B, possibly 4-A Name: Verdona Origin: Ben 10 Gender...
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Ghengiroo115 said:
Most undeserved multiplier award goes too…

vsbattles.fandom.com

Verdona

Verdona is the Anodite love interest of Max Tennyson and grandmother of Ben and Gwen. Like all Anodites, Verdona is a free-spirited being. Though sometimes acting more mature and grown-up, she mostly acts like a playful child. Tier: At least 4-B, possibly 4-A Name: Verdona Origin: Ben 10 Gender...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
What? Some abilities are clearly displayed. But why was it removed?
 
GeneralSol16 said:
Cuz the OG had all the episodes being premiered at practically the same year, the OS has the same amount of episodes but distributed in two years.

And the RB made less money than the Prime, plus, tue Prime timeline lasted 8 years.
Click to expand...
Wrong + COPE
1PissedOFFWayBig.png


Distribution argument is irrelevant (as it's network dependent, Reboot had more seasons + more gimmicks+ more specials)
timeline lasting 8 years just goes to show that Ben 10 was being unnecessarily dragged on, ruining character development. lol you felt the need to bring entire timeline into this. it would be like someone saying "Avengers end game is not good cause marvel comics has history worth of 85 years" i was referring to a single show and much it did during it's run (There is no statistical data on money available but if it made less money entire toylines for reboot would've NOT been published and Reboot youtube channel would have not hit 1 million+ subs) and you forgot how ratings declined in Alien Force and U.A (Leading to point omniverse put an early morning dead block by CN)

Money argument is also irrelevant as they had higher budget for using and utilizing Sakuga moments in combat.



One thing reboot does great is that it shows Ben 10 fandom's ignorance and i love it :cool:
 
Wanted to look into technology levels to see if I could find anything about Ascalon or the Chronosapien Time Bomb’s technology level (sadly I couldn’t find anything direct), however I did find some stuff that peeked my interest:
  • Techadon Robots are Lv. 12, despite existing in a world where Nuclear Fission and the manipulation of fundamental forces (e.g. gravity) is around Lv. 4-5. Of course this partly has to do with their hax and the general complexity of their inner workings, but I would assume it also has something to do with strength considering what the Techadon Robots are built to do. Also obviously this means very little with how high the current scaling of the series is, however it’s good to have in our back pocket in case we one day get hit with a colossal downgrade nuke.
  • Apparently Fistrick’s Class 12 Armoured Mecha Suit is also Lv. 12, though I think the Ben 10 wiki is just assuming that it’s Lv. 12 because it says “Class 12”. I can kinda see that line of reasoning though since they use a word like “Class” instead of something like “Mark”, plus the mech upscales from Ben’s regular aliens so it would probably be around that ballpark anyway.
  • All alternate Omnitrices seen in OV are Lv. 20 just like the prime Omnitrix, which seems like a given. Interestingly the Nemetrix is apparently raging from 19-20 (idk for sure since the link is dead), which is strange since the Nemetrix doesn’t have any of the Omnitrix’s at face value more broken abilities. No uber strong aliens, no SD mode, no crazy failsafes and presumably no Immeasurable reaction speed, suggesting the “changing forms” aspect is more technically impressive than all that other stuff combined. It gets double weird when you consider the Nemetrix has the Evolutionary function, suggesting simply changing alien forms is also more technically impressive tech than evolving an alien into their ultimate form.
  • Azmuth regularly dabbles in the mid-teens of tech levels, though his greater inventions like the Omnitrix go much higher. If changing forms is enough for Lv. 20 then presumably Ascalon would be Lv. 20 too, as it’s one of Azmuth’s greatest inventions and it can make others change form through reality warping.
I think there might’ve been other points I wanted to mention, but I literally fell asleep while writing this so I have no idea what else I was meant to bring up. Overall though it doesn’t seem that useful for scaling outside of maybe lowballs for weaker aliens.
 
It's not that he realizes it's wrong more like how pointless it all is, he became too smart for evil in Maltruant's words.

But after he got his brain removed he thought it was a trick to confuse him and goes back to evil.
 
BlastX said:
It's not that he realizes it's wrong more like how pointless it all is, he became too smart for evil in Maltruant's words.

But after he got his brain removed he thought it was a trick to confuse him and goes back to evil.
Click to expand...
Oh I see. Also I think his punishment aka the solar cycles thing was a bit light do you think?
 
Are there any good quotes for kid Ben in specifically OS? I really like the UA quote but it kinda bothers me that it’s the only one he’s got. Also maybe an OV quote/render would be nice too.
 
Oh also, where does the idea that Ascalon is the only thing that can defeat Dagon come from? Like we use that idea a lot however I’ve no idea the source.

The reason I ask is quite simple:
  • Azmuth is one of the few people “too smart to be evil” and rivals Professor Paradox in intelligence.
  • Professor Paradox created the Map of Infinity, in which one of the four pieces was the Alpha Rune.
  • Ascalon is one of Azmuth’s greatest creations and “the only thing that could stop Dagon”, making it undoubtedly superior to the Alpha Rune (further supported by Dagon being portrayed as superior to the Alpha Rune).
 
This should be modified:
1) Omnitrix self-destruct, Ben 10,000, and Ben 10,000 Alternate Timeline should be 2-A, not at least 2-B, possibly 2-A.
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Ben 10,000 (Alternate Timeline)

Benjamin "Ben" Kirby Tennyson, self-nicknamed Ben 10,000, is a potential future version of the main timeline's Ben Tennyson. Coming from a future where he kept the Ultimatrix, he is considerably more brash and immature than an alternate version of himself but proves to be a hero all the same...
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Ben 10,000 (Main Timeline)

Benjamin "Ben" Kirby Tennyson, nicknamed Ben 10,000, is a potential future version of the Ben Tennyson of the main timeline. Having spent several decades mastering the use of the Omnitrix for good, this version of Ben has rendered all forms of police on Earth practically obsolete and is revered...
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vsbattles.fandom.com

Omnitrix

The Omnimatrix, better known as the Omnitrix, is Azmuth's greatest invention. A repository of alien DNA from across the universe, it allows its wielder to transform into any species recorded within in. This gives it tremendous potential for both furthering understanding and waging war...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
2) Ben 10,000 Alternate Timeline should be have Mana Manipulation
vsbattles.fandom.com

Ben 10,000 (Alternate Timeline)

Benjamin "Ben" Kirby Tennyson, self-nicknamed Ben 10,000, is a potential future version of the main timeline's Ben Tennyson. Coming from a future where he kept the Ultimatrix, he is considerably more brash and immature than an alternate version of himself but proves to be a hero all the same...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
Will touch it when available.
REX9097 said:
This should be modified:
1) Omnitrix self-destruct, Ben 10,000, and Ben 10,000 Alternate Timeline should be 2-A, not at least 2-B, possibly 2-A.
vsbattles.fandom.com

Ben 10,000 (Alternate Timeline)

Benjamin "Ben" Kirby Tennyson, self-nicknamed Ben 10,000, is a potential future version of the main timeline's Ben Tennyson. Coming from a future where he kept the Ultimatrix, he is considerably more brash and immature than an alternate version of himself but proves to be a hero all the same...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
vsbattles.fandom.com

Ben 10,000 (Main Timeline)

Benjamin "Ben" Kirby Tennyson, nicknamed Ben 10,000, is a potential future version of the Ben Tennyson of the main timeline. Having spent several decades mastering the use of the Omnitrix for good, this version of Ben has rendered all forms of police on Earth practically obsolete and is revered...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
vsbattles.fandom.com

Omnitrix

The Omnimatrix, better known as the Omnitrix, is Azmuth's greatest invention. A repository of alien DNA from across the universe, it allows its wielder to transform into any species recorded within in. This gives it tremendous potential for both furthering understanding and waging war...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
2) Ben 10,000 Alternate Timeline should be have Mana Manipulation
vsbattles.fandom.com

Ben 10,000 (Alternate Timeline)

Benjamin "Ben" Kirby Tennyson, self-nicknamed Ben 10,000, is a potential future version of the main timeline's Ben Tennyson. Coming from a future where he kept the Ultimatrix, he is considerably more brash and immature than an alternate version of himself but proves to be a hero all the same...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Are there any good quotes for kid Ben in specifically OS? I really like the UA quote but it kinda bothers me that it’s the only one he’s got. Also maybe an OV quote/render would be nice too.
Click to expand...
Secret Of The Omnitrix towards the end? Ben 10.000 episode? And then were Ten when he resolves to use the watch to help people?
 
Is there any way to scale the physicals of Alpha Rune/Map of Infinity wielders to the Entropy Pump? I feel they should be superior given they’re Paradox inventions and all, but I wonder if there’s a better argument for it since you could just apply their superiority to their mana manip. Idk if their physicals currently scale to the Alpha Rune’s 2-A mana manip or not, however with what I’m planning they eventually won’t be so I’m trying to figure out any arguments that can get them higher than just High 5-A from Ultimate Humungousaur.
 
Last edited:
Ghengiroo115 said:
Is there any way to scale the physicals of Alpha Rune/Map of Infinity wielders to the Entropy Pump? I feel they should be superior given they’re Paradox inventions and all, but I wonder if there’s a better argument for it since you could just apply their superiority to their mana manip. Idk if their physicals currently scale to the Alpha Rune’s 2-A mana manip or not, however with what I’m planning they eventually won’t be so I’m trying to figure out any arguments that can get them higher than just High 5-A from Ultimate Humungousaur.
Click to expand...
I think Paradox should be have Mana Manipulation
 
  • Dagon underestimates George in their first battle, leading to his defeat.
  • Dagon doesn’t underestimate George in their second battle, is very confident in being able to win and kills George with basically no effort once he felt like it.
  • Ultimate Vilgax was terrified of Ascalon and got completely owned in his “fight” with Ben (The fight sucked balls but the intention seemed to be for Ben to beat Vilgax easily).
Looking at it under this lens, idk how I’m supposed to see this in any way other than Ben being stronger than George with Ascalon. My guess is this is just because George is a tired old man even in his “rejuvenated” body and can’t use the sword to its full effectiveness (maybe it’s focusing some of its power on keeping George fit for battle?), since it’s lampshaded by Chromastone earlier and it’s the only reason I can think of for Vilgax to think that Ascalon is so scary. Originally I was against this idea, but now I’m not sure why I ever was.

EDIT:


Actually wait, perhaps its power is based on worthiness? Modern day George is a lot less worthy of the sword so that could play a factor in its strength.
 
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  • “Still at work, Azmuth? If I had known you’d become so obsessed with it, I’d never have created that sub-atomic viewer for you.”
  • “It enables us to gaze upon the primal forces of the universe, Zennith. How could you not want to harness it?”
  • “Zennith, how can you not see the possibilities of tapping into the fundamental forces?”
  • “I’m as curious about those forces as you, but I don’t see the need to try and control everything.”
  • “It’s perfect! It could cleave right through reality, tap into the primal energies!”
What could this mean…

EDIT:


Azmuth says that Ascalon is a weapon of terrible power that “cannot be stopped” when held by someone who is truly worthy.
 
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Thinking about it, my 2-A upgrade might end up downgrading a lot of characters back down to High 5-A. Currently it’s looking like modern day George won’t have Ascalon’s full power, and I’m not comfortable with George downscaling from Dagon via him harming him as the scaling chain makes their gap too high. Plus there’s the whole “souls kill Chromastone” idea, which based on the Dagon > Alpha Rune arguments wouldn’t make sense unless Dagon was massively holding back (even though I think this makes little sense). I also don’t think we can argue in good faith that a nerfed Ascalon should scale to the Entropy Pump or the Highbreed’s technology. Sure there’s Anodite Gwen scaling above the Highbreed tech, but that only applies to her. Maybe I can find some other arguments to get them to Eon level, Entropy Pump level or at least Hughbreed level, but rn it’s not looking good.
 
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Actually wait, would Dagon > Alpha Rune even make sense? Isn’t he bound by the rules of magic, which the Alpha Rune has absolute power over? Or did he just feel like honouring the rules of magic for some reason out of the goodness of his heart?

If I ignore Alpha Rune superiority then things change, as tbh I feel it’s out of character for Dagon to “hold back” against George considering the context. It also gives us potential 2-A scaling for Ultimate Humungousaur level characters via the Alpha Rune’s raw power upscaling from a single soul. Although I worry that Eon reshaping the universe, Ascalon’s universal statements and Atomic-X arguably downscaling from the Chronosapien Time Bomb won’t be enough.
 
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(I am so sorry if me spamming the thread is bothering anyone, I’ve had a rough week and am using the 2-A project as a way to keep my mind off everything)

So i just did some quick reading up on the Meta-Nanites from Generator Rex. From what I understand they grant the user control over the “Dominion Code”, which I believe is the fabric of the universe or something? That sounds a lot like Ascalon tapping into and controlling the primal energies/forces of the universe to me.

Might I ask what created the Meta-Nanites? Depending on the answer I could potentially combine Azmuth’s “too smart to be evil” status with the Dominion Code/primal forces comparison to then scale Ascalon to the Meta-Nanites.
 
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Ben 10: 1-B universe? (i’m so sorry)

As anyone who’s looked into the cosmology on the wiki will know, this moment here is pretty important for how a lot of things are structured: “Wait, I thought the universe was everything” is used as support for places like the Null Void, Legerdomain or Dimension 12 to be part of the universe...
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please dont hurt me
 
I really want to make a team profile for the sentient ultimates (I think the transformations themselves already having profiles removes the need to making separate sentient ultimates profiles) but I'm too lazy to do it, same for the Andromeda 5.
 
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Malware Durability Negation

I still haven't updated Malware's profile for my other CRT, but in the meantime I want to make this. Basically Malware gets his third form after regenerating from and absorbing the Tachyon Cannon a weapon that tears the target apart at a cellular level in a certain radius (21:14) that's...
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Just need one more staff.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
vsbattles.com

Ben 10: 1-B universe? (i’m so sorry)

As anyone who’s looked into the cosmology on the wiki will know, this moment here is pretty important for how a lot of things are structured: “Wait, I thought the universe was everything” is used as support for places like the Null Void, Legerdomain or Dimension 12 to be part of the universe...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
please dont hurt me
Click to expand...
Mad woman, what have you done!?
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Oh also, where does the idea that Ascalon is the only thing that can defeat Dagon come from? Like we use that idea a lot however I’ve no idea the source.

The reason I ask is quite simple:
  • Azmuth is one of the few people “too smart to be evil” and rivals Professor Paradox in intelligence.
  • Professor Paradox created the Map of Infinity, in which one of the four pieces was the Alpha Rune.
  • Ascalon is one of Azmuth’s greatest creations and “the only thing that could stop Dagon”, making it undoubtedly superior to the Alpha Rune (further supported by Dagon being portrayed as superior to the Alpha Rune).
Click to expand...
I don't know if that could work.

Smith is not the best with magic, and he didn't know where or what were the MoF pieces.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
vsbattles.com

Ben 10: 1-B universe? (i’m so sorry)

As anyone who’s looked into the cosmology on the wiki will know, this moment here is pretty important for how a lot of things are structured: “Wait, I thought the universe was everything” is used as support for places like the Null Void, Legerdomain or Dimension 12 to be part of the universe...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
please dont hurt me
Click to expand...
Oh man...
 
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