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Ben 10 General Discussion Thread

You know I just thought of something, would Eon “replacing” the Prime timeline cause a chain reaction that erases all other timelines from existence? That seemingly isn’t how it worked with the Chronosapien Time Bomb, but perhaps Eon’s different method would cause it to happen?

Actually now that I think about it, I think Eon’s method was going to affect the entirety of the Prime timeline (including the parts the Chronosapien Time Bomb didn’t destroy), which would give Eon possibly Low 1-C for his peak absorption potential due to the hypertimeline stuff. If that was the case then would he be “2-B, possibly Low 1-C” or “2-A, possibly Low 1-C”? Also wouldn’t that give him some form of Acausality (idk if that’s the right ability) since he wouldn’t be affected by the chain reaction?
 
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Eon doesn’t have the aging weakness while possessing Ben, right? I’m pretty sure in the movie it’s implied that Eon partly wanted to possess Ben so he would no longer have that weakness. Could be wrong though.

Edit: While looking through a transcript to find Eon’s “You are me, Benjamin” quote, I found a different one that says Ben would because a God for an eternity. Idk if that’s just an Omnitrix thing or if Eon would live forever if not for his aging weakness, but I thought this was notable enough to mention.
 
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Sorry for the constant Eon-related questions (although this one doesn’t have anything to do with powerscaling), but what are y’alls thoughts on Chronians being mutant humans akin to Osmosians? The little we see of Chronia kinda resembles a ruined Earth to me (although maybe I’m stretching a bit), and it being true effectively makes both of Eon’s origins true at the same time and fixes the numerous plot-holes in RAT caused by Eon being just a human.
 
I don't have much to say...

Honestly at this point trying to stick to RAT is kinda the issue here, like I think if you assumed the movie happened in broad strokes and just follow Eon's story from OV to UA seems more logical...or something, I'm just rambling and saying whatever.
 
But speaking of Eon, I saw one concept that I like a lot in that the Ben of Gwen 10 universe becomes a good version of Eon and develops Chronian powers instead of Anodite power.
 
BlastX said:
I don't have much to say...

Honestly at this point trying to stick to RAT is kinda the issue here, like I think if you assumed the movie happened in broad strokes and just follow Eon's story from OV to UA seems more logical...or something, I'm just rambling and saying whatever.
Click to expand...
Like I said this question isn’t really for powerscaling (I don’t think his exact origins change anything about the scaling), but personally I just think Chronians being mutant humans fixes every plot-hole caused by the “retcon”. It explains why he cared about the Chronians, why he called himself a Chronian, how he got his powers (as making him just human means his powers are left unexplained) and also how he was able to make Ben transform into him in the first place (correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the Omnitrix not allow the user to transform into their own species?).

While you could just say “maybe he’s just an honorary member” or something to explain the first two things, that’s kinda a silly explanation and also according to DJW Chronians aren’t even a thing in the animated continuity. If we took that statement as fact then the RAT alluded to in UA is a very different story and kinda not even RAT at all.

Idk I just think saying Eon is both is more elegant, since it allows RAT to work perfectly while not changing anything about the show. Also doesn’t Eon literally say he’s Ben in the movie or was he just talking about the possession thing? I guess I’m just rambling too lol

Also yeah, I’m at least gonna be assuming Eon went through something close to the original movie since iirc Paradox confirmed they are one and the same.

BlastX said:
But speaking of Eon, I saw one concept that I like a lot in that the Ben of Gwen 10 universe becomes a good version of Eon and develops Chronian powers instead of Anodite power.
Click to expand...
That’s a pretty cool concept.
 
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Ghengiroo115 said:
Like I said this question isn’t really for powerscaling (I don’t think his exact origins change anything about the scaling)
Click to expand...
Actually now that I think about it, with enough inconsistencies some people could probably argue that it invalidates any scaling between movie Eon and show Eon. Figuring out how we should sort out Eon’s canonicity is probably a good idea.

As y’all already know I’m on the camp that we just say Chronians are alternate humans, as it’s kind of implied in the movie already and it allows everything in both forms of media to work properly.
 
OK so after looking through a transcript (as I can’t find any clips of it online), here’s the full speech that the “You are me, Benjamin” line comes from:
  • Eon: Have you ever wondered why the Omnitrix only allows you to change for 10 minutes at a time?
  • Ben: Sure. Unfortunately, I lost the instruction manual.
  • Eon: It’s a fail-safe so that the DNA of the alien life-forms trapped within the Omnitrix don’t overwhelm you when they take you over... a fail-safe that can be easily overridden if one knows the Omnitrix as intimately as I do. I came here on a desperate mission to rescue my people.
  • Ben: Yeah, rescue them by taking over our world.
  • Eon: We were a gilded race of warriors. We'd mastered the elements -- gods who grew too strong and destroyed ourselves. With the Hands of Armageddon, we could be reborn on Earth, but in order to do that, I needed to find you.
  • Ben: what are you talking about?
  • Eon: You kept this secret even from your own blood. You are the reason I came back two centuries ago and again countless times. My body grew weaker and weaker with each leap through time. I was looking for you, Benjamin, the boy with the Omnitrix.
  • Ben: You knew?
  • Max: We hoped you'd never find out, that this day would never come.
  • Ben: Why me?
  • Eon: Ah. It’s my DNA that will be released from the Omnitrix. I am the alien life-form that will soon overwhelm you. You are me, Benjamin.
  • Ben: No, you're lying!
  • Eon: My time is almost over. But I will be reborn in you and have great strength and power at the Hands of Armageddon and open a time rift to my dying world, bringing an end to yours. You will no longer be a simple, helpless child, but a god -- not for mere moments, but for an eternity.

Now from what I see, the “You are me, Benjamin” line could go either way. Based on the context of what he just said prior it could just be referring to Ben eventually becoming him, however him using the present tense and Ben accusing him of lying implies that Eon is actually saying he is Ben here. He also mentions being very intimate with the knowledge of the Omnitrix, which wouldn’t make much sense unless he had one himself. Of course with the benefit of hindsight we can easily say that these were hints that he’s an alternate version of Ben all along, however deciding on the original intention might still be important.

Something else interesting to me though is how he describes himself and his race. He continuously calls the Chronians “gods who grew too strong” and stuff of the like, suggesting that his full power really could be Way Big tier or more like the Hands of Armaggedon argument implies. While we obviously don’t know Eon’s past, we do know he had an Omnitrix at some point and most likely knows about Way Big level characters anyway from his ventures across time. I think this might be enough to make him “likely High 5-A” instead of just “possibly High 5-A”.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
OK so after looking through a transcript (as I can’t find any clips of it online), here’s the full speech that the “You are me, Benjamin” line comes from:
  • Eon: Have you ever wondered why the Omnitrix only allows you to change for 10 minutes at a time?
  • Ben: Sure. Unfortunately, I lost the instruction manual.
  • Eon: It’s a fail-safe so that the DNA of the alien life-forms trapped within the Omnitrix don’t overwhelm you when they take you over... a fail-safe that can be easily overridden if one knows the Omnitrix as intimately as I do. I came here on a desperate mission to rescue my people.
  • Ben: Yeah, rescue them by taking over our world.
  • Eon: We were a gilded race of warriors. We'd mastered the elements -- gods who grew too strong and destroyed ourselves. With the Hands of Armageddon, we could be reborn on Earth, but in order to do that, I needed to find you.
  • Ben: what are you talking about?
  • Eon: You kept this secret even from your own blood. You are the reason I came back two centuries ago and again countless times. My body grew weaker and weaker with each leap through time. I was looking for you, Benjamin, the boy with the Omnitrix.
  • Ben: You knew?
  • Max: We hoped you'd never find out, that this day would never come.
  • Ben: Why me?
  • Eon: Ah. It’s my DNA that will be released from the Omnitrix. I am the alien life-form that will soon overwhelm you. You are me, Benjamin.
  • Ben: No, you're lying!
  • Eon: My time is almost over. But I will be reborn in you and have great strength and power at the Hands of Armageddon and open a time rift to my dying world, bringing an end to yours. You will no longer be a simple, helpless child, but a god -- not for mere moments, but for an eternity.

Now from what I see, the “You are me, Benjamin” line could go either way. Based on the context of what he just said prior it could just be referring to Ben eventually becoming him, however him using the present tense and Ben accusing him of lying implies that Eon is actually saying he is Ben here. He also mentions being very intimate with the knowledge of the Omnitrix, which wouldn’t make much sense unless he had one himself. Of course with the benefit of hindsight we can easily say that these were hints that he’s an alternate version of Ben all along, however deciding on the original intention might still be important.

Something else interesting to me though is how he describes himself and his race. He continuously calls the Chronians “gods who grew too strong” and stuff of the like, suggesting that his full power really could be Way Big tier or more like the Hands of Armaggedon argument implies. While we obviously don’t know Eon’s past, we do know he had an Omnitrix at some point and most likely knows about Way Big level characters anyway from his ventures across time. I think this might be enough to make him “likely High 5-A” instead of just “possibly High 5-A”.
Click to expand...
Dayum.. I have no words. The award for the best analysis goes to you, milady.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
OK so after looking through a transcript (as I can’t find any clips of it online), here’s the full speech that the “You are me, Benjamin” line comes from:
  • Eon: Have you ever wondered why the Omnitrix only allows you to change for 10 minutes at a time?
  • Ben: Sure. Unfortunately, I lost the instruction manual.
  • Eon: It’s a fail-safe so that the DNA of the alien life-forms trapped within the Omnitrix don’t overwhelm you when they take you over... a fail-safe that can be easily overridden if one knows the Omnitrix as intimately as I do. I came here on a desperate mission to rescue my people.
  • Ben: Yeah, rescue them by taking over our world.
  • Eon: We were a gilded race of warriors. We'd mastered the elements -- gods who grew too strong and destroyed ourselves. With the Hands of Armageddon, we could be reborn on Earth, but in order to do that, I needed to find you.
  • Ben: what are you talking about?
  • Eon: You kept this secret even from your own blood. You are the reason I came back two centuries ago and again countless times. My body grew weaker and weaker with each leap through time. I was looking for you, Benjamin, the boy with the Omnitrix.
  • Ben: You knew?
  • Max: We hoped you'd never find out, that this day would never come.
  • Ben: Why me?
  • Eon: Ah. It’s my DNA that will be released from the Omnitrix. I am the alien life-form that will soon overwhelm you. You are me, Benjamin.
  • Ben: No, you're lying!
  • Eon: My time is almost over. But I will be reborn in you and have great strength and power at the Hands of Armageddon and open a time rift to my dying world, bringing an end to yours. You will no longer be a simple, helpless child, but a god -- not for mere moments, but for an eternity.

Now from what I see, the “You are me, Benjamin” line could go either way. Based on the context of what he just said prior it could just be referring to Ben eventually becoming him, however him using the present tense and Ben accusing him of lying implies that Eon is actually saying he is Ben here. He also mentions being very intimate with the knowledge of the Omnitrix, which wouldn’t make much sense unless he had one himself. Of course with the benefit of hindsight we can easily say that these were hints that he’s an alternate version of Ben all along, however deciding on the original intention might still be important.

Something else interesting to me though is how he describes himself and his race. He continuously calls the Chronians “gods who grew too strong” and stuff of the like, suggesting that his full power really could be Way Big tier or more like the Hands of Armaggedon argument implies. While we obviously don’t know Eon’s past, we do know he had an Omnitrix at some point and most likely knows about Way Big level characters anyway from his ventures across time. I think this might be enough to make him “likely High 5-A” instead of just “possibly High 5-A”.
Click to expand...
I feel that would be enough for Tier 4, but it probably be an outlier for Eon.
 
BlastX said:
I feel that would be enough for Tier 4, but it probably be an outlier for Eon.
Click to expand...
Tbh I had the opposite thoughts. Prime Eon being Tier 4 wouldn’t necessarily be an outlier as he scales to no-one in RAT, and since Eon was very close to having timeline altering power in UA he should’ve been way higher than Tier 4 then regardless. My issue is that the strength statements are a bit too vague on their own, so I imagine at best they’d just support a “High 5-A, possibly/likely higher” rating for Prime Eon or something like that.
 
OK guys, am I stupid or does Chronia actually look like Earth?

Winkel_triple_projection_SW.jpg
 
It’s a shame this image on the Ben 10 wiki is super pixelated, would’ve been a good image for his clone since it’s a full-body render. Eon wears the same outfit across the entire movie though so I think we just need one image with a good enough view of his design. This image should work fine enough assuming I get a good shot for one of his other appearances.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
It’s a shame this image on the Ben 10 wiki is super pixelated, would’ve been a good image for his clone since it’s a full-body render. Eon wears the same outfit across the entire movie though so I think we just need one image with a good enough view of his design. This image should work fine enough assuming I get a good shot for one of his other appearances.
Click to expand...
Replace the "static"s with "vignette"s in the URLs next time, but anyway I think the reason why they're so pixelated is because they're so small
 
vsbattles.com

Ben 10 CRT:"Absolute Upgrade"

Ultimate Kevin Upgrade This should be easy. Ultimate Kevin is composed by all the aliens of the active playlist of the Ultimatrix at the time, including the Ultimates that were already used, this means he has To’kustar DNA just like his 12 year old mutation, so Ultimate Kevin should scale to...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
BTW, Ultimate Agreggor should be Low 5-B in his low end since he's 434 exattons while the baseline for Low 5-B is 433 exattons and Omniverse Kevin 11 should be Low 5-B+ since he passed the 29 Zettatons threshold which is Low 5-B+...granted if the recent downgrade passes it won't matter anymore.
 
Also why are the Tier 4 ratings in the verse page listed as 20.08 TeraFOE and 10.53 ZettaFOE? that's literally 4-A and 3-C yet they're listed as 4-B and 4-A respectively when that warrants at the very least the +.
 
BlastX said:
BTW, Ultimate Agreggor should be Low 5-B in his low end since he's 434 exattons while the baseline for Low 5-B is 433 exattons and Omniverse Kevin 11 should be Low 5-B+ since he passed the 29 Zettatons threshold which is Low 5-B+...granted if the recent downgrade passes it won't matter anymore.
Click to expand...
Ultimate Aggregor is already Low 5-B on his profile, not sure why he’s only 5-C on the verse page. True about OV Kevin 11 though, if my downgrade doesn’t pass through then whoever edits Kevin’s profile next should fix that.
 
My bad I didn't check his second key, I just assumed his first key was Ultimate Aggregor for some reason.
 
Y’know I wonder what happened to the Mechamorphs that merged into the rock that turned into the Helix Tower. Like are they permanently just the Helix Tower now, or did they somehow separate without causing the rock to de-upgrade? The former is more likely based on how their powers are shown to work, but it’s a little funny if they’re just stuck there forever.
 
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Ghengiroo115 said:
Y’know I wonder what happened to the Mechamorphs that merged into the rock that turned into the Helix Tower. Like are they permanently just the Helix Tower now, or did they somehow separate without causing the rock to de-upgrade? The former is more likely based on how their powers are shown to work, but it’s a little funny that they’re just stuck there forever.
Click to expand...
Mechamorphs can separate their body parts into being and non being.
 
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