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Beerus Upgrade Part 2

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Ss3micah said:
That would just justify Hakai being a 4-D hax (which it was already beforehand so not really any change)
Im not seeing the reason why Hakai would have a 2-B potency and/or range thou when it specifically lacks feats of both
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If it scales above 2B hax, then it wouldn't just be 4D hax, it would be 2B hax specifically. At least, the way I understand it. It doesn't really need feats of 2B range. That's why we differenciate between DC and AP
 
Tarang123 said:
Don't we still have it so that Beerus' Hakai scales above Arale's toon force and stuff, which probably still scales to this level?
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From what I understand that’s not the case. Beerus’ profile says he can erase Arale, but that doesn’t mean he scales to her Plot hax AP.

And Beerus being immune to her TF is just hax resistance.
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
From what I understand that’s not the case. Beerus’ profile says he can erase Arale, but that doesn’t mean he scales to her Plot hax AP.

And Beerus being immune to her TF is just hax resistance.
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From what I remember, this specific thread was there to argue that his hax would work regardless of whether she used her Toon Force, which would imply a higher scaling of hax than her own abilities.

Though I'm fine with it not being the case. I'm not really sure that the argument holds much weight when you take into account the fact that raw power can overcome the Hakai (or at least, an alternate form of it with the same properties), which would equate to arguing 2B Base Goku or 2B for characters on GoD Candidate Toppo's level
 
Tarang123 said:
I believe the argument was that his hakai works regardless of her toon force hax, therefore it scales higher than the hax itself, rather than just Arale herself. It's based on that one statement from Goku which was interpreted to argue that Arale's toon force wouldn't work on Beerus and that he'd just destroy her regardless. Assuming this is true, I think it could be a plausible 2B for hax, albeit it does bring up a few concerns regarding the powerscaling
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Existence erasure is hax. It doesn't matter for tier for the most part. A 9-A can erase a 2-B if the 2-B doesn't have any resistance.

But I understand that Dragonball has this verse mechanic, where hax doesn't work on stronger enemies, so I guess this can be used to say that it won't be a problem in other battles up to 2-B.

Maverick_Zero_X said:
And Beerus being immune to her TF is just hax resistance.
Click to expand...
He'd just resist the specific abilities she used on him if she used them at all. From what I saw in the comic, her toonforce has a lot of abilities, and I don't think she used plot hax in that episode.

Vietthai96 said:
Can we just stop the thread??, anyway since Ant mentioned about my bad grammar on profile, can someone check and fix it?? Thank you very much
Click to expand...

I will check.
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Existence erasure is hax. It doesn't matter for tier for the most part. A 9-A can erase a 2-B if the 2-B doesn't have any resistance.

But I understand that Dragonball has this verse mechanic, where hax doesn't work on stronger enemies, so I guess this can be used to say that it won't be a problem in other battles up to 2-B.


He'd just resist the specific abilities she used on him if she used them at all. From what I saw in the comic, her toonforce has a lot of abilities, and I don't think she used plot hax in that episode.



I will check.
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they’re basically saying Beerus should have 2-B Ee for the same reasons as Beerus used to have low 1-C before just now it’s downgraded to 2-B and not Low 1-C like before if that makes sense
 
godofice said:
they’re basically saying Beerus should have 2-B Ee for the same reasons as Beerus used to have low 1-C before just now it’s downgraded to 2-B and not Low 1-C like before if that makes sense
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The only reason that scaling works is because of how this site does Reality-Fiction transcendence. Without it, no such scaling can occur.
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Existence erasure is hax. It doesn't matter for tier for the most part. A 9-A can erase a 2-B if the 2-B doesn't have any resistance.
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Well depends on if that 2-B character does or does not have a special state of existence like AE1 or HDE or but generally yeah
Iamunanimousinthat said:
But I understand that Dragonball has this verse mechanic, where hax doesn't work on stronger enemies, so I guess this can be used to say that it won't be a problem in other battles up to 2-B.
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Im still unsure of that being a sufficient reason but I'll accept 2-B EE is everyone else is okay with it. Personally Im unsure
 
Vietthai96 said:
Can we just stop the thread??, anyway since Ant mentioned about my bad grammar on profile, can someone check and fix it?? Thank you very much
Click to expand...
On Beerus's page:

Toon Force (Goku stated that Arale's Toon Force would not work on him) -- shoudl suffice. no need to mention 4D

However for this:

Cosmic Awareness, Existence Erasure, Non-Physical Interaction, Aura, Void Manipulation & Limited Spatial Manipulation (With the Power of Destruction, God of Destruction can erase everything from existence, from living beings, souls, spirits to physical objects, energy[3] attacks. Scaling to Toppo, who warped the environment of the World of Void with Energy of Destruction. The power is so potent that it can erase[4] beings like Dr. Mashirito and likely even Arale Norimaki both of whom resist extremely powerful narrative erasure)

I would actually hold off on this. It is not apparent if narrative erasure ever occurred at all. While the clip used here, shows the author whiting out the comic strip, it should be noted, that the Dr. Slump world was never shown to be erased or shown that anything happened to it. Also, in that same episode, the author seeked the help of one of the characters to erase Arale.
 
Ss3micah said:
Are you saying Beerus should or should not have 2-B EE?
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I am saying that in the special case of Dragonball, where the verse mechanic is that hax doesn't work on stronger characters, battlers can use this feat to claim Beerus can hurt stronger enemies with his Hakai.

It should be, something like, "erased beings stronger than him" on his page. etc. maybe even a note explaining the verse mechanic too.
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
I would actually hold off on this. It is not apparent if narrative erasure ever occurred at all. While the clip used here, shows the author whiting out the comic strip, it should be noted, that the Dr. Slump world was never shown to be erased or shown that anything happened to it. Also, in that same episode, the author seeked the help of one of the characters to erase Arale.
Click to expand...
I should note to you that Author has consistently been shown being able to use Comic Strips to manipulate characters and the world on numerous occasions without fail. The Author clearly had the intent to the characters as he wanted to set the stage to make a new series and utilized his powers for the that purpose, all context points to that being the definite fact. The characters not being affected by this either because his hax decided to spontaneously not work (which would have been the first time ever across dozens of episodes) or they simply were unaffected by the Erasure.

We can't ignore consistency nor context and then lean to an interpretation that is not only insufficient but also ignores the established rules of the verse up until that point especially in a world as wacky and logic breaking as Dr. Slump
 
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Ss3micah said:
I should note to you that Author has consistently been shown being able to use Comic Strips to manipulate characters and the world on numerous occasions without fail. The Author clearly had the intent to the characters as he wanted to set the stage to make a new series and utilized his powers for the that purpose, all context points to that being the definite fact. The characters not being affected by this either because his hax decided to spontaneously not work (which would have been the first time ever across dozens of episodes) or they simply were unaffected by the Erasure.

We can't ignore consistency nor context and then lean to an interpretation that basically ignores the established rules of the verse up until that point.
Click to expand...
Which version of the author tried to erase dr slump? The 5D or the 3D avatar
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
I disagree with 2-B EE. Hakai’s current designation as just layered is more accurate.
Click to expand...
Iamunanimousinthat said:
I am saying that in the special case of Dragonball, where the verse mechanic is that hax doesn't work on stronger characters, battlers can use this feat to claim Beerus can hurt stronger enemies with his Hakai.

It should be, something like, "erased beings stronger than him" on his page. etc. maybe even a note explaining the verse mechanic too.
Click to expand...
Anyways, clearly maverick disagrees with 2-B EE
 
godofice said:
Which version of the author tried to erase dr slump? The 5D or the 3D avatar
Click to expand...
Not sure why your asking a question I answered for you before
3-D and stop trying to scale anything to 5-D cause their is no scaling
As Iamunanimousinthat has pointed out and as I agreed, Arale doesn't scale to them at all
 
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Iamunanimousinthat said:
Existence erasure is hax. It doesn't matter for tier for the most part. A 9-A can erase a 2-B if the 2-B doesn't have any resistance.

But I understand that Dragonball has this verse mechanic, where hax doesn't work on stronger enemies, so I guess this can be used to say that it won't be a problem in other battles up to 2-B.
Click to expand...
That isn't the point being made. The point was that this upgrade was based on the notion that Beerus's EE bypasses Arale's hax which works on a 2B level. This would mean that said hax work on a 2B level as well.

As well as that, in Dragon Ball, it's made fairly obvious that if you are stronger, overcoming the Hakai isn't as much of a big deal. And if the user of the Hakai is stronger, its effect is greater, hax be damned. Best example being Vegeta overcoming Toppo's Hakai energy after an energy boost, or Frieza getting wrecked by Toppo's hakai which was above Sidra's hakai.
 
Ss3micah said:
Not sure why your asking a question I answered for you before
3-D and stop trying to scale anything to 5-D cause their is no scaling
As Iamunanimousinthat has pointed out and as I agreed, Arale doesn't scale to them at all
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when I think of author I think of fictional transcendence so I have to make sure especially in the scan it looks like the author is viewing them on a page and erasing them out but i just want to clarify
 
godofice said:
when I think of author I think of fictional transcendence so I have to make sure especially in the scan it looks like the author is viewing them on a page and erasing them out but i just want to clarify
Click to expand...
I clarified it with before and my answer won’t change and once again their is no 5-D scaling
 
Tarang123 said:
That isn't the point being made. The point was that this upgrade was based on the notion that Beerus's EE bypasses Arale's hax which works on a 2B level. This would mean that said hax work on a 2B level as well.

As well as that, in Dragon Ball, it's made fairly obvious that if you are stronger, overcoming the Hakai isn't as much of a big deal. And if the user of the Hakai is stronger, its effect is greater, hax be damned. Best example being Vegeta overcoming Toppo's Hakai energy after an energy boost, or Frieza getting wrecked by Toppo's hakai which was above Sidra's hakai.
Click to expand...
The scaling to hax was only because of Reality-Fiction Transcendence. Without it, there is no need to scale to AP.
godofice said:
I’m confused kinda can you explain it more
Click to expand...

Under current R>F standards, lower tiers cannot affect higher tiers. This is why a AP scaling was proposed with it. Without it, there is no need to scale to AP because lower tier characters can hax higher tier characters.
Vietthai96 said:
Can we stop with all the in DB hax weakness is do not work with stronger being, i'm tired of that shit
Click to expand...

If that's the case, then there is no scaling to tiers here.
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
The scaling to hax was only because of Reality-Fiction Transcendence. Without it, there is no need to scale to AP.


Under current R>F standards, lower tiers cannot affect higher tiers. This is why a AP scaling was proposed with it. Without it, there is no need to scale to AP because lower tier characters can hax higher tier characters.


If that's the case, then there is no scaling to tiers here.
Click to expand...
are you saying there’s no point of putting 2-B because low 1-C was only put cuz it was a dimensional higher like 5D?
 
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