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Hi, as ive stated on a few threads before, I am going to be attempting to upgrade the general Low 1-C tiering for pretty much the rest of the Bayonetta pages (minus the Angels of Paradiso, Demons of Inferno, Joy and Base Luka). Their Speeds should also scale to Bayonetta and others as Infinite for the obvious 'not being blitzed' reason.
This includes:
All of Bayonettas Summons on this wiki thus far (Minus their sin forms which are already Low 1-C)
The Four Cardinal Virtues (These guys are bosses of the first game, and helped slaughter the Umbra Witches. These summons also work vice-versa to Bayonetta's summons, but for Balder and were shown directly being able to fight them.)
Loki (Part of Aesir's power)
Rosa (Can fight side-by-side with Bayonetta, regarded as the strongest witch of the Umbra Clan, a variant was capabale of matching Bayonetta in 3 etc.)
Base Rodin (Why isnt he already Low 1-C?)
Not 100% sure about:
Gracious and Glorious
Glamor
Insidious
1. Bayonetta derives her power from her Summons, and consistently uses them as her main heavy hitters
As we know, Umbra Witches create contracts with Infernal Demons for their power, and can summon them at any time. While Umbra Witches definitely have 'power' like that on their own, it is pretty much a given for a powerful witch to be able to summon an infernal demon as we know in Cereza and the Lost Demon. With this being said, why are the Demons capped at High 6-A? Which is insanely low compared to the Low 1-C's who actively use and rely on them in combat.
The main factor is her Contract with Madama Butterfly, whom is her main partner and summon, that "the demon would impart upon her enormous power and great wisdom." With this and the fact her Wicked Weaves are always the attacks that leave the most damage (which directly uses Madama's strength), then it should be obvious this is her level of power.
The weapons Bayonetta and Jeanne use also derive from their demons, and are their own main way of attacking, specifically the ones in Bayonetta 3. These weapons are even made of the demon's power such as Alruna or G-Pillar.
I personally think that Demons even have a higher damage output than standard Umbran Witches without their wicked weaves, as we note in difficulties like Infinite Climax where even the fodder angels/demons do a ton more damage to Bayonetta. She is primarily a fighter that focuses on dodging and not being hit, which is evident in the gameplay, and when she does get hit, we see she never really no-sells it without a problem. This is not to say she is not durable, or superior to her summons in general, but the fact that Inferal Demons are still a physical threat to her should definitely put them to this tier.
They work together, as we see in this Bayonetta 3 cutscene where Cereza suggests a more 'attentive approach' against Pannus when Madama Butterfly's own physical strength just allows them to duplicate. With this, Bayonetta is able to bypass their duplication easier to defeat them, and its because she does not have Madama's output that allows them to split outright.
New techniques such as Demon Slave and Demon Masquerade are also shown as inherit buffs to Bayonetta, which both rely on the power of her demons. Again, this wouldnt be the case if she was only calling on High 6-A levels of power, and its confirmed the Demons buff Bayonetta rather than the other way around.
2. Her Summons can hurt and defeat opponents on this level in this verse
Listing a few examples of this:
3. Just because they have been one shot while summoned does not mean they dont scale.
The only real opposition i've seen that they don't scale is because of how easily we have seen Bayonetta's summons die in a single attack, to the likes of Balder, Balder again in Bayonetta 2, Aesir, Strider etc. Despite this, I don't think this at all disproves their level of powers being proportionate and instead just lesser to a small degree.
High 6-A minimum (Debunked)
In Cereza and the Lost Demon, the description for Affinity (the main fodder foot soldier angels in Bayonetta games):
"A common angel from the third sphere of the angel hierarchy, summoned by Púca.
Affinity are considered the closest existence to humans among the angels; their halo is said to be able to guide the misled when they descend from Paradiso. Though they are seated on the lowest sphere of the angel hierarchy, their strength still far exceeds human comprehension. An average person would likely be unable to so much as touch one. The divine weapons that these angels wield possess considerable power, able to shatter the earth's surface with a single strike.
This Affinity, however, is not an actual angel, but an illusion formed by piecing together the collective consciousness of past witches who entered Avalon. It is required to stay close to Púca in order to survive, but its strength is proportionate to that of a real Affinity. Púca has recently found great use for it in removing unwanted disturbances to his plans."
As per this wiki's Standard Reference for the common feat, this would be High 6-A, and thus make it the new minimum for the likes of Paradiso. The only thing that will lower than them in the verse are regular humans and fairies (with the exception likely being Lukaon)
Bayonetta's Resistance to Fate Manipulation/Existence Erasure
Given the whole ending of the game was Bayonetta going against Singularity's ability to alter Phenomena, and creating her own truth by literally outstripping his ability, then surely it should be stated on her profile? Idk how this was missed. Given she also came back from Singularity's Existence Erasure and doesnt die immediately to the clouds of erasure, i'd say we can also give her this
I only wanted to make this thread rather quickly so forgive lack of scans or detail, but imo it is wildly obvious that the things that Bayonetta derives her power from and relies upon the most should also fit into the Low 1-C criteria with her, or at least High 2-A if people really dont like matching them to other high tiers.
Resistance to Cosmic Radiation & Extreme Cold
Given shes survived in space multiple times, such as against Jubileus and Singularity
This includes:
All of Bayonettas Summons on this wiki thus far (Minus their sin forms which are already Low 1-C)
The Four Cardinal Virtues (These guys are bosses of the first game, and helped slaughter the Umbra Witches. These summons also work vice-versa to Bayonetta's summons, but for Balder and were shown directly being able to fight them.)
Loki (Part of Aesir's power)
Rosa (Can fight side-by-side with Bayonetta, regarded as the strongest witch of the Umbra Clan, a variant was capabale of matching Bayonetta in 3 etc.)
Base Rodin (Why isnt he already Low 1-C?)
Not 100% sure about:
Gracious and Glorious
Glamor
Insidious
1. Bayonetta derives her power from her Summons, and consistently uses them as her main heavy hitters
As we know, Umbra Witches create contracts with Infernal Demons for their power, and can summon them at any time. While Umbra Witches definitely have 'power' like that on their own, it is pretty much a given for a powerful witch to be able to summon an infernal demon as we know in Cereza and the Lost Demon. With this being said, why are the Demons capped at High 6-A? Which is insanely low compared to the Low 1-C's who actively use and rely on them in combat.
The main factor is her Contract with Madama Butterfly, whom is her main partner and summon, that "the demon would impart upon her enormous power and great wisdom." With this and the fact her Wicked Weaves are always the attacks that leave the most damage (which directly uses Madama's strength), then it should be obvious this is her level of power.
The weapons Bayonetta and Jeanne use also derive from their demons, and are their own main way of attacking, specifically the ones in Bayonetta 3. These weapons are even made of the demon's power such as Alruna or G-Pillar.
I personally think that Demons even have a higher damage output than standard Umbran Witches without their wicked weaves, as we note in difficulties like Infinite Climax where even the fodder angels/demons do a ton more damage to Bayonetta. She is primarily a fighter that focuses on dodging and not being hit, which is evident in the gameplay, and when she does get hit, we see she never really no-sells it without a problem. This is not to say she is not durable, or superior to her summons in general, but the fact that Inferal Demons are still a physical threat to her should definitely put them to this tier.
They work together, as we see in this Bayonetta 3 cutscene where Cereza suggests a more 'attentive approach' against Pannus when Madama Butterfly's own physical strength just allows them to duplicate. With this, Bayonetta is able to bypass their duplication easier to defeat them, and its because she does not have Madama's output that allows them to split outright.
New techniques such as Demon Slave and Demon Masquerade are also shown as inherit buffs to Bayonetta, which both rely on the power of her demons. Again, this wouldnt be the case if she was only calling on High 6-A levels of power, and its confirmed the Demons buff Bayonetta rather than the other way around.
2. Her Summons can hurt and defeat opponents on this level in this verse
Listing a few examples of this:
3. Just because they have been one shot while summoned does not mean they dont scale.
The only real opposition i've seen that they don't scale is because of how easily we have seen Bayonetta's summons die in a single attack, to the likes of Balder, Balder again in Bayonetta 2, Aesir, Strider etc. Despite this, I don't think this at all disproves their level of powers being proportionate and instead just lesser to a small degree.
- There are many cases of verses that scale their lesser demons/enemies to the high tiers of power, such as SMT, even though theres an obvious power gap, this just needs to be stated on the profile.
- The Demons are only temporarily summoned, and even if they die while summoned in Purgatorio, they regenerate really quickly which can suggest they are not as strong while outside of Inferno. Their presence is also reliant of Bayonetta's magic, so if that at all keeps dwindling, then its likely the demon dwindles in power while being used by her.
- They don't actually stay dead, and regenerate within Inferno. This is even seemingly the same as Paradiso and the Cardinal Virtues since we see Fortitudo again in Bayonetta 3 (and as we know, pure residents of Paradiso and Inferno (at least the ones that weren't originally human like Madama Butterfly) have no multiple variants). We should definitely rework and label their regenerative abilities too at some point.
"A common angel from the third sphere of the angel hierarchy, summoned by Púca.
Affinity are considered the closest existence to humans among the angels; their halo is said to be able to guide the misled when they descend from Paradiso. Though they are seated on the lowest sphere of the angel hierarchy, their strength still far exceeds human comprehension. An average person would likely be unable to so much as touch one. The divine weapons that these angels wield possess considerable power, able to shatter the earth's surface with a single strike.
This Affinity, however, is not an actual angel, but an illusion formed by piecing together the collective consciousness of past witches who entered Avalon. It is required to stay close to Púca in order to survive, but its strength is proportionate to that of a real Affinity. Púca has recently found great use for it in removing unwanted disturbances to his plans."
As per this wiki's Standard Reference for the common feat, this would be High 6-A, and thus make it the new minimum for the likes of Paradiso. The only thing that will lower than them in the verse are regular humans and fairies (with the exception likely being Lukaon)
Bayonetta's Resistance to Fate Manipulation/Existence Erasure
Given the whole ending of the game was Bayonetta going against Singularity's ability to alter Phenomena, and creating her own truth by literally outstripping his ability, then surely it should be stated on her profile? Idk how this was missed. Given she also came back from Singularity's Existence Erasure and doesnt die immediately to the clouds of erasure, i'd say we can also give her this
I only wanted to make this thread rather quickly so forgive lack of scans or detail, but imo it is wildly obvious that the things that Bayonetta derives her power from and relies upon the most should also fit into the Low 1-C criteria with her, or at least High 2-A if people really dont like matching them to other high tiers.
Resistance to Cosmic Radiation & Extreme Cold
Given shes survived in space multiple times, such as against Jubileus and Singularity
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im lazy)
