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Battle for the 4th strongest 6-A - Edelweiss vs Commissioner R

It's tier based. Physically weaker characters cannot fully scare or lower the willpower of a physically superior or comparable character in GoH.

Well, Greed can only die one way, and that's self EE. Unless Edel has EE herself, Greed will just kill Edel before it achieves it's fate.
 
Except that your explanation only works if Edelweiss removed Stella's fated death entirely. If she was brought to the very brink of it but wasn't auto-killed, she was still at the very edge of her fated death even if it wasn't being actively enforced. There's also the part about how Stella believing that she should die means that she just wouldn't have tried to dodge or block.

About the quote, you do realize that Desperados have a shitton of stuff designed to make their opponents not able to effectively fight, which would pretty easily **** over anyone who isn't also a Desperado or has massive plot armor, right? Like, you still haven't given any evidence of this literally killing people, just that people who fight Desperados and that aren't Desperados themselves are ****** which is pretty clear considering the other shit they have.

The stealth insult was unnecessary btw.
 
Sir Ovens said:
It's tier based. Physically weaker characters cannot fully scare or lower the willpower of a physically superior or comparable character in GoH.
Well, Greed can only die one way, and that's self EE. Unless Edel has EE herself, Greed will just kill Edel before it achieves it's fate.
Click to expand...
Edel is physically superior to R.

Then edel can't make greed fated to eat itself because?

@H13

Not really, if edel stops enforcing her fate of death, then her fate goes back to her normal one. The fate of death is only enforced for as long as desperados show bloodlust. If they stop showing bloodlust the effect doesn't exist anymore (unless they will it but that's another issue). Think of this, if i strangle someone (and he can hold his breath for 2 mins), and i keep him for 1 min and 59 seconds. If i keep it, he'll die, if i don't he'll be fine, cus im basically not making it so that "he dies right now" anymore. Similarly if edelweiss stops willing for Stella do die now, then she won't die now.

"a shitton of stuff designed to make their opponents not able to effectively fight"

How does that translate to stella literally feeling death in their fate and that their fate will pull her to "the end of what she has imagined". It's different if it's just strength or fighting capability. Stella had higher fighting capability than Or Gaule, he was still affecting her up until she became a desperado.

About that, yeaha ok, my bad there, it's just annoying when you make claims. Much better when you actually ask for clarification like you're doing right now.
 
That's not how that works, and that comparison doesn't work. This is like aging someone to a minute before they would naturally die, but stopping. They aren't just going to keep going like normal, they're going to act as though they're a minute from dying of old age.

The fact that their fear hax rather specifically makes people feel like they are about to die and wasn't resistible by Stella.

Fair enough
 
This doesn't work by aging though. If she stops willing it, then people don't die. Idk why it's so hard to understand when the scan shows this exact thing "The causality blade was gonna take her life, then edelweiss stopped willing it and the causality disappeared". Why would she die, if the very way she was being forced to die disappeared? Anyway this is how it works, i don't intend on explaining it anymore.

That's not what the fear hax does, it shows people how they actually imagine dying, and that very same thing happens. Case and point, stella was being cut by an abstract thing like causality. Edelweiss has no power that would allow her to cut people with causality, it all happened because that's how stella saw herself dying.
 
How is Edel stronger? R scales to 1.4196069e+25, while Edel scales to 6.934258e+24.

Also I'm under the impression that the fate hax isn't instant and that someone with an intense drive to kill humanity like R wouldn't be scared off by Edel until he has fulfiled his purpose.
 
Edel has almost 2 stomp scales above that feat. And even then that is in verse mechanics, it doesn't apply here. Otherwise sirzechs would stomp half the site because in DxD you can't affect stronger beings with just about anything.

Fate hax depends on how he sees himself dying, it's not instant death but it's instant fate hax but it doesn't really matter due to how fate hax works by nature. Also fate hax only happens if he actually can push himself through the fear and will hax, forgot to mention that. Also why would r be able to do it? Has he dealt with that level of fear hax before?
 
I reread GoH and have come to the conclusion that R's Greed is not sentient. It was made before Okhwang decided to split his immortality into 3 parts. Edel's visions wouldn't affect Greed because it wouldn't understand, much less care. Also, I've found several instances where Greed just appears under the opponent and absorbs them so that will work finely when Edel tries to paralyse R.
 
The vision wouldn't affect greed sure. The fate will though.

So r can't do anything because of passives and will even force greed not to act against edel.

Greed will be unable to do anything because of the fate hax if it doesn't lead to him self nuking. And that's assuming r can't tell greed to stop or force him to do so which you would need to prove.

In other words, stomp.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
This doesn't work by aging though. If she stops willing it, then people don't die. Idk why it's so hard to understand when the scan shows this exact thing "The causality blade was gonna take her life, then edelweiss stopped willing it and the causality disappeared". Why would she die, if the very way she was being forced to die disappeared? Anyway this is how it works, i don't intend on explaining it anymore.

That's not what the fear hax does, it shows people how they actually imagine dying, and that very same thing happens. Case and point, stella was being cut by an abstract thing like causality. Edelweiss has no power that would allow her to cut people with causality, it all happened because that's how stella saw herself dying.
Click to expand...
You seem to have started with your own conclusion here. "The power is valid because people die unless she specifically wills it." The attack brings them to the edge of their fated death, as the age example brings someone to the edge of their natural lifespan. The difference in the two examples is literally only in the words used, and even then it's basically just a pallet-swapped version of Edel's thing. Also, the sword is literally Edelweiss' physical ******* sword and you have given absolutely no reason to believe otherwise. Also also, thanks for forfeiting.

Except that it is very clearly what it does considering the various scans of those powers that you yourself have posted over time. Proof maybe? Because otherwise I could give someone like Ron Shobu death hax over literally 0 feats or statements of this outside of a phrase that literally means nothing without good evidence, which you have repeatedly failed to give. You yourself say that Edelweiss has no "sword of causality" powers, so it is literally her sword. You have given no evidence that Stella was literally being forced to not block outside of the fear hax. You have objectively failed to support the ability being there.

Anyways, no Greed won't be affected because it literally does not have a mind with which to imagine its death. Even if it did the death it imagines is eating itself after consuming the rest of the world, which means that Edel just fated herself to get eaten by it aka she dead. Also, R literally is sentient Greed so he can control it.
 
That's not how fate works. She's not choosing fate yhwach style. She is literally manifesting people's imagination. If she stops willing it it stops working. Again it's shown in the feat itself.

It was explained that that's the death she was imagining. Edel's sword is not causality and why would it dissapear? Edel specifically didn't have a sword in her hand. Specially stated that their fate is death. Etc.

>Greed can't imagine

>Will imagine death killing edel.

So r will control greed and force it not to act
 
>not reading my post and acting like a smug ass about it

Mmmkay. Come back when you actually read my post.

Also no, R won't because he yeets himself to a pocket dimension that Edel can't get to and pops out to attack her. Even if R dies, which is what you're saying he will, Greed just goes berserk.
 
Your post was "she brings them to the edge of their fate". Which is not what she does as i've explained it again. You're applying mechanics from headcanon to her ability. Manifesting how one "believes they will die" is not "she makes ppl reach the end of their fate" otherwise Stella would die of old age not cus of causality blades, we would have seen her get older.

R won't be able to act due to passive fear and willpower passives. And i stated above that "fate hax comes into play if the opponent shrugs off the fear hax (assuming they don't just actively will the fate hax like Ikki)". Since R can't fight the fear hax, the fate hax won't take effect.
 
I'm sorry, what? The willpower manip being tier based carries over to this match due to verse equalization. Mira Yoo, who was relatively on par with Ilpyo Park, was still scared shitless when he flexed his willpower because of the AP difference. Bongchim Nah walking into a room made someone completely seize up because of the sheer AP gap.

Even if R was killed, Greed would just consume everything. And by your own admission, if Greed doesn't see a death for itself, it wouldn't be fate haxed.
 
>Scared because of AP

That's not really a thing. It's not fear hax if they're scared because of AP in the first place. By that logic i have fear hax on a class mate if i have a knife in my hand. Being scared of someone's AP isn't fear hax, iirc there was a thread revising that a while ago.

Why would R be killed? He can't get past the fear hax. Also considering how Greed can act without command means it's not fully mindless. It can still think. But even then doesn't stop Edel from just fate haxing him actively.
 
I'm sorry, but fear hax being tiered based isn't covered by verse equalization. Otherwise Goku would resist the hax of every character below him in AP because that's how it works on DB.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Also considering how Greed can act without command means it's not fully mindless. It can still think. But even then doesn't stop Edel from just fate haxing him actively.
Click to expand...
Greed can't think. That's like saying a machine can think. It has one purpose, and that is to consume everything, and eventually, itself. It is not something that can be reasoned with. And I explicitly recall you saying that whatever death you envision becomes fate haxed into reality. Greed can't envision anything, it's not even alive.
 
A machine can't think, that's why it can't act without our help. We have to give directions and control what it has to do for it to act. So false equivalency. But then again as stated R can control greed, so both get incaped by the fear hax.

Yes the passive form of the fate hax is "how you imagine yourself dying in that fight will become reality as long as the Desperado you're facing is bloodlusted". The active form is "[Insert name of Desperado] says something and you're forced to abide". Which is what Ikki used on Iris and Nene on Stella.
 
Again, R resists fear hax. In GoH, power = fear hax. Ilpyo could fear hax an entire stadium full of people and didn't affect Mori because he was physically on par with him. The fear hax doesn't work on anyone stronger, that's just how it is.

If R does not control Greed, it eats. Controlling Greed requires willpower, and if one lacks the willpower, Greed will be unleashed.

So far I have not seen Edel fate haxing an inanimate object before. That's what Greed is. Moreover, if the active Fate hax is law manip, Greed eats.
 
Power = Resistance to everything in Dragon Ball and DxD, doesn't get equalized. Again being scared of someone who is stronger than you is not fear hax. You're scared of someone who's like 10 foot tall. Doesn't give him fear hax.

Yeah so? Nobody is killing R so he'll still control Greed to avoid the fight.

Why would active fate hax be law manip? And second, equalizing it like that is false equivalency. Everything that is bound to do something, act etc has a fate because "it is fated to do a certain action". Don't compare an not alive experiment to a chair.
 
It doesn't work the same way you're describing it. No one was scared of Ilpyo until he willed it. Mori just passively resisted it. R does the same.

You don't understand. Jegal Taek didn't die after being beaten by Mori, yet his Greed took over and started trying to devour everything. Greed looses control when the user isn't strong willed enough to contain it. Fear haxing R (If it even works) would make him unworthy of holding Greed, and he will be consumed by Greed, as well as everything else.

I said if it was law manip. Even then, has Edel ever fate haxed anything like Greed? Could the fate hax even save her from the world being engulfed by it the moment it is fully unleashed? I need feats of such fate hax affecting a planetary range.
 
Not really, it is as you said just fear hax from being strong. Which is nulled by the very nature of how it works. "Im scary cus im strong" "Well im stronger so why would i give a shit?". People can release the "pressure of strength" if they will it, it's not uncommon in fiction. Doesn't equalize to "i will resist Nihilus' mind hax because im stronger than him in AP".

R wouldn't be just feared of anything, he will just do everything he can to avoid fighting edel. You got any cases for how greed would act in this case?

>Fate hax on a planetary range

Dude, you do know that doesn't apply to your case right? Greed is a dude as big as a planet, he's not on the other side of the planet. Your logic is saying "to touch the earth you need planetary range touch because earth is everywhere on the planet" yes, it is everywhere on the planet, even right next to me, i don't need range to affect it if it's so close, no matter how big it is. And Edel fate haxes people who literally transcend fate and causality, greed ain't escaping anytime soon, unless you can prove that being "greed" gives any form of fate resistance at all.
 
Mind hax =/= Fear hax. GoH characters don't scare people by being stronger, they will it. You resist it if your will is equal or greater than the guy willing it. It just so happens that a person's will = AP in GoH, that's how it works. And it just so happens that R's will is one of the greatest in GoH. To affect R with her fear hax, she would have to have a greater resolve than him, which means that she would have to have greater resolve than a man who wants to kill every human on Earth and won't stop until he achieves that.

Once Jugok lost the will to fight, Greed was unleashed and started eating everyone in the room they were in. When Jegal was defeated and rendered unconscious, Greed ate him and revived him. When Mori went Monkey King and Jegal knew he couldn't beat him, Greed took over and started eating everything.

My point was, can Edel fatehax anything on such a grand scale that would prevent her from being devoured? I doubt she has has dealt with anything that has Greed's level of potency or fate haxed anything from completely expanding and devouring everything.
 
Everything is a case by case basis. Fearhax is especially one of them. Given how fear works, you'd have to prove it works on people stronger than you/people who have no reason to be scared of you.
 
Fear hax is a subset of mind hax.

>A person's will

I mean Edel's will literally broke through causality, fate and logic (cus that's what desperados are). R doesn't have will beyond that.

Losing the will to fight =/= R telling Greed not to act.

That's not a point though. Whether someone is a small as an ant or as big as a galaxy, doesn't affect his fate. We don't measure fate by how many cubic meters it takes up in space, it's an abstract idea of "the actions someone will/is destined to take". Size of the target is meningless.
 
The real cal howard said:
Everything is a case by case basis. Fearhax is especially one of them. Given how fear works, you'd have to prove it works on people stronger than you/people who have no reason to be scared of you.
Click to expand...
Yes but they're not scared of you, they're scared because they feel death from the person. Strength is useless when you understand that you'll die in that fight.

And i already said R is 1.4 x 10^25 while Edel is >> Nene Saikyou >> Nasseem >> Tendou Harima who performed a 7 x 10^24j feat as a part of 4 other things he was doing at the same time.

The difference is less than 2x and Edel scales way beyond the calc. R doesn't have the higher AP here.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Fear hax is a subset of mind hax.
>A person's will

I mean Edel's will literally broke through causality, fate and logic (cus that's what desperados are). R doesn't have will beyond that.

Losing the will to fight =/= R telling Greed not to act.

That's not a point though. Whether someone is a small as an ant or as big as a galaxy, doesn't affect his fate. We don't measure fate by how many cubic meters it takes up in space, it's an abstract idea of "the actions someone will/is destined to take". Size of the target is meningless.
Click to expand...
That's completely subjective. Fear hax does not always come from mind hax.

R's will pacifies a creature that has the power to eat concepts across dimensions and doesn't eat him. Regardless, both R and Edel's feats would be unquantifiable either way. R's will feat would be his undying hatred for human beings and his resolve to kill them all.

Why. Would. R. Tell. Greed. Not. To. Fight? I don't get this. If there's an opponent in front of R and R isn't actively trying to return them to the soil, Greed would take that as weakness and be unleashed. R being scared would make him loose control of Greed by default.

You don't get my point. No matter how much Edel fate haxes, there are still a set of events that occur before said fate is achieved, right? How is Edel going to stay alive before Greed's fate is achieved? Unless you tell me Stella lost the fight the instant Edel fate haxed her, you still have yet to refute this point.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
The difference is less than 2x and Edel scales way beyond the calc. R doesn't have the higher AP here.
Click to expand...
Then she isn't 6-A, Earl, she's just straight up High 6-A. Hell, if R sneezed just a little harder, he would be High 6-A too. He's High 6-A with stolen Borrowed Power because they increase his AP by an unidentifiable amount.
 
Pretty sure we don't upscale to higher tiers unless it's similar to R's case where he's literally borderline 6-A.

How strong is the creature and how much will it needs to contain are 2 different things. And undying hatred i don't see how it is in any way all that strong.

Because the fear makes people "avoid the fight". Greed acting would start the fight, that's why R would stop him.

At the instant Edelweiss was going to be shot between in the eyes, the fingers on the trigger were frozen in place. It was as if Kurono's heart had exploded from fear. She had landed on the ground, and only just barely pointed the gun barrels, but even so her fingers didn't move.

What was stopping her was none other than Kurono's own instincts. Because if she moved her fingers just a little, the battle was start instantly, and she knew she couldn't win this fight.

Not really, i can understand confusion on this part, imma explain in parts:

1. The "several events need to happen".

  • Nah, they don't "need" to happen. What is happening is "the imagined death is playing out". Stella getting cut wasn't a normal event that was just happening, it was stella's death being manifested. It just so happened that Stella's imagined death wasn't an instant decapitation (either that or Edel was actually holding back the bloodlust not to kill her, im still working on deducing which one it was)
2. The set of events and stuff only exist in the passive version of the fate hax. The thought based one is instant:

The distance was shortened at a speed that wasn't comparable to when he was fighting Stella.

Stella held the sword as she urged herself with a feeling of impatience that she had to defeat this enemy as soon as possible,

― Don't move.

― ――!?

The few words of Nene, that possessed dignity and felt like they reprimanded her, stole the movement of her whole body.


The explanation for what happened:

And the words of the other day that Stella suddenly understood.

The words of Saikyou Nene.

Nene's words tied to her when she tried to charge at《Haboob》.

An invisible pressure.

That was also the result of her『intention』being swallowed deeply by her causality.


There is also ikki using it to prevent Iris from leaving:

Iris wanted to stop Stella from leaving but she was stopped by Ikki's power to influence fate as a Desperado.
 
Though now that i think about it. Edel isn't the only one who can contend for the spot. There are ppl like Nene Saikyou who should be more meta considering she has actual hax outside of desperado ones. Seeing as there will be at least 5 more ppl in this same tier range (who don't have a profile yet) it should probs be "characters from Rakudai".
 
Not really. It just depends. Depends on the fanbase of the opposing character. So for edel, she has her good moments but when she's up against kars, r and soon to come, yhwach things can get bad.

Hopefully this fight is settled though.
 
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