Battle for 5th strongest Low 7-C; Ainz Ooal Gown vs Kurumi Tokisaki

[Random-Helper323]

Standard Battle Assumptions

Low 7-C Kurumi used, obviously

Ainz can use Perfect Warrior and the Staff of Ainz Ooal Gown

Start 4km apart, due to Ainz's spell range

Speed equalised

Ainz Ooal Gown:

Kurumi Tokisaki:

Inconclusive:

Edit: If it's a stomp I'll swap Kurumi for Tohka and swap Ainz for Shalltear, and make it just a normal versus thread.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I already gave my opinion of this on the thread.

Not only does Ainz straight up not qualify for the Low 7-C tier, Kurumi also stomps him via immortality and just zerging him.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Deceived suggested making the thread, and it seemed opinions were mixed on whether Ainz could participate. If it turns out people in general don't consider Ainz viable for Low 7-C in the thread, then I'll just change it to a regular versus thread, and if Kurumi wins then that's a double kick to the metaphorical privates for Ainz. Apologies for asking you to repeat yourself, but if you list the specific hax and means for Kurumi to win, I'll count your vote. I don't think I can count it based on something said in a different thread.

 

[DaReaperMan]

There isn't a vote to count its a stomp, as in can't be added at all.

And opinions were only separate because of Ainz's profile looking kind of Terrible.

Not only does Ainz straight up not qualify for the Low 7-C tier, Kurumi also stomps him via immortality and just zerging him.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Well, immortality alone isn't enough to call it a stomp when Ainz has several hax that kill despite immortality. We'll see what other people think of it.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Well, immortality alone isn't enough to call it a stomp when Ainz has several hax that kill despite immortality. We'll see what other people think of it.

Ah yes, the SINGULAR ability that doesn't even negate type 6 immortality. Ainz can negate type 4 immortality, that's it. And Ainz has a large, but limited mana supply. As in, he can run out of juice and get ****** over by a High 7-A hit. And also Ainz can't deal with fate manipulation.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Can I ask you to please calm down? That attitude is unnecessary, and I'm listening to you and do value your input; you don't need to be aggressive to get me to pay attention. Look, we'll wait and see what others think. I'm having a bad enough week already. I'm literally here to distract myself from the things that have been happening in the last few days and will likely happen in the next few weeks, including possible violence against myself and my family. So can we please calm it down? Again, let's wait and see what other people think. If it's a stomp, fine. If it's a decent match, fine. Let's wait and see.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Sorry, it's just frustrating when people look at the ability and not what type it is, there's 8 types of immortality to be able to negate, negging one don't mean you neg the rest.

I'd note I normally do what I do in the rest of the comment is mostly just informing about the character in a neutral way besides the curse, which really is just saying he'd get screwed

 

[Random-Helper323]

Thank you. I'm pretty rusty on the Wiki's system. It's been a long time since I was here last. And if Ainz only negates immortality type 4, then his page probably shouldn't say his spells kill enemies even if they have immortality, without specifying the limitations. To be honest, that was the part that made me think he could take it.

Edit: the Death Manipulation page seems a bit strange too. Some things seem to be listed as Death Manipulation when they aren't really the same as forcing death on something. It makes it a vague hax without context.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Thank you. I'm pretty rusty on the Wiki's system. It's been a long time since I was here last. And if Ainz only negates immortality type 4, then his page probably shouldn't say his spells kill enemies even if they have immortality, without specifying the limitations. To be honest, that was the part that made me think he could take it.

It uh, it does state specifically only type 4 though

"Immortality Negation (Type 4; Ainz can use the Instant Death spell True Death, which negates resurrection"

 

[Random-Helper323]

It states it up there, does it? Apologies. The part about the spells was what I mostly read, and the spell list just vaguely said immortality.

 

[DaReaperMan]

The spell section is basically a quick rundown on Ainz's spells, not going into the details on precisely what hax or type it actually is

 

[Random-Helper323]

Kurumi's page says she needs to transfer herself to her clone to use her immortality. If she's killed quickly, can she still do it? Is it possible to kill her before she transfers and have her stay dead? Ainz pretty much always opens with Grasp Heart, which is pretty quick.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Considering her Acausality 3 exists nah.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Hm... Okay, let's wait and see what others think of the match up still. Might as well wait for input. If it's a stomp, I can swap Kurumi for a different character like Tohka.

 

[DaReaperMan]

It'd be much better to swap Ainz out for another character, as he's really hard to get fair matches out of at the best of times

 

[Random-Helper323]

You reckon swapping Kurumi for Tohka and Ainz for Shalltear or Albedo would be an okay match up?

 

[hippoishungry]

Weaknesses: Time manipulation requires the use of her lifespan, although except for time travel, this isn't really a problem in combat, her clones are weaker than herself, has a "Main Body" that if killed will kill all the other Kurumis.

ainz could probably win if the main body is present

 

[DaReaperMan]

You reckon swapping Kurumi for Tohka and Ainz for Shalltear or Albedo would be an okay match up?

Most likely, though I'd go with Shalltear since we've actually seen her fight more.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Most likely, though I'd go with Shalltear since we've actually seen her fight more.

True. And Shalltear has armour and I think a few more hax too. We'll still have to see what happens.

ainz could probably win if the main body is present

Is that likely? Is there any limit to how many clones she can make? Or can she, and would she, just sit back and watch her clones swarm him like a conjuration build in an Elder Scrolls game? Also, how many clones could Ainz believably handle?

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Am a person who watched the anime in the past, my memory is a bit shaky, and am somewhat relying on her VS Wiki page, but she can create hundreds of clones that have all of her experiences, memories, abilities, etc and it is in character for her to sit back and let her clones do the work from a distance away... There is a slight issue of clones 'sometimes' doing their own shit - but the only thing that one renegade clone did was go on a date with the series protag and die, so... this tidbit is pointless and is just written out for ***** and giggles!

I also don't think there isn't a limit of how much clones Kurumi can spawn, thus, even if Ainz kills her first bunch of clones she can instantly throw another bunch of clones at him over-and-over until he dies.

 

[Random-Helper323]

How far away would she normally fight from? Banshee Shriek has a 200m radius according to the page. If the fight starts only 100m apart that might be a viable way to attack her. And under standard battle Assumptions it should be the real her that's present and she shouldn't have clones already present. She has to summon them. So she might be vulnerable before that.

Edit: the fight currently starts 4km apart due to Ainz's spell range, but if someone thinks that range is silly we can change it to 20m due to Kurumi's range.

 

[hippoishungry]

tbh i was moreso wondering if she had her main body in a different universe that she could spawn more clones from due to this:

Even if you kill Kurumi in the past, she will always exist in the present and throughout multiple timelines,

cause if her main body is in the same universe as ainz he could time stop and kill all of the clones with his various hax

 

[RitsuØ1]

tbh i was moreso wondering if she had her main body in a different universe that she could spawn more clones from due to this:

cause if her main body is in the same universe as ainz he could time stop and kill all of the clones with his various hax

Kurumi can also use Time Stop against Ainz if they are both in the same universe. So yeah. My vote is going to Kurumi if this isn't already a stomp.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Spoiler: How Ainz Wins

Ainz casts: [The Goal Of All Life Is I Win]

Kurumi Stomps.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Okay, let's assume they start in front of each other and Ainz opens with Grasp Heart, Paralyse or Time Stop, while Kurumi opens with time stop, a space tearing bullet or bringing out a clone. How effective is each of those tactics for each character?

If it's a stomp I'll swap Kurumi for Tohka and Ainz for Shalltear, and make it just a normal versus thread.

 

[Phoenks]

Ainz doesn't even qualify for Low 7-C lol he's physically 9-A

 

[DaReaperMan]

Okay, let's assume they start in front of each other and Ainz opens with Grasp Heart, Paralyse or Time Stop, while Kurumi opens with time stop, a space tearing bullet or bringing out a clone. How effective is each of those tactics for each character?

If it's a stomp I'll swap Kurumi for Tohka and Ainz for Shalltear, and make it just a normal versus thread.

If it's Kurumi's main body Ainz thinks and she drops dead.

 

[Random-Helper323]

If it's Kurumi's main body Ainz thinks and she drops dead.

That actually does make for a problem for her if they start the fight like a fighting game, facing each other. Range seems like a major factor here. First off Kurumi wouldn't likely be starting with her clones already there, or with her real body absent. If it was a fight with preparation yeah or if Ainz only met one of her clones, but that's not how versus threads generally work. So it should be her real body on the battlefield. With that, the question is whether we use Ainz's spell range and say they start 4 kilometres apart, or use Kurumi's range and say they start 20 metres apart. If it's the latter we're basically talking a wild west quick draw battle, but if it's the former, that might give Kurumi a chance to bring clones into it and send them after Ainz, although it also gives Ainz a chance to to prepare his spells. Of course, with speed equal they can both cross that distance as quickly as you or I can take a step, so it might still be a quick draw battle, likely Grasp Heart versus spatially destructive bullets or clones. Do both resist time stop?

Maybe I shouldn't have used Ainz in a versus thread. I can see how any battle with him is at best a "first strike wins" and at worst a stomp one way or the other.

 

[hippoishungry]

Okay, let's assume they start in front of each other and Ainz opens with Grasp Heart, Paralyse or Time Stop, while Kurumi opens with time stop, a space tearing bullet or bringing out a clone. How effective is each of those tactics for each character?

If it's a stomp I'll swap Kurumi for Tohka and Ainz for Shalltear, and make it just a normal versus thread.

if both of them start in front of each other, ainz should win most times:

kurumi requires to shoot her target with a bullet in order to stop their time, whereas ainz's time stop is instant. ainz also resists a time stop, while kurumi doesn't (at least going from her profile).

all of kurumis bullets are projectiles, which means that they take time to travel to their target. on the other hand, ainz's grasp heart doesn't have to travel any distance. in any case, ainz has a ring that will resurrect him at least once, so he will win pretty much any quick draw.

kurumis clones are pretty much her main wincon here, but given that ainz is several kilometers out of her range, he has plenty of time to activate his instant death spells before being in kurumis range and if he decides to use time stop at any time he can defeat kurumi and all of her clones that she has summoned without any resistance.

 

[Random-Helper323]

How quickly can Kurumi bring out a clone, and how likely is she to lead with it? And how does it fare if Ainz is 4km away, and rushing forward to use Grasp Heart? Again keeping in mind speed is equalised so she can't just run away, and even Ainz's speed by default is supersonic+, scaling above Albedo's Mach 3.275 feat, meaning he scales above 1.12529 kilometres per second. Fast enough to easily cross that distance in at most 3.55 seconds.

 

[Phoenks]

How quickly can Kurumi bring out a clone, and how likely is she to lead with it? And how does it fare if Ainz is 4km away, and rushing forward to use Grasp Heart? Again keeping in mind speed is equalised so she can't just run away, and even Ainz's speed by default is supersonic+, scaling above Albedo's Mach 3.275 feat, meaning he scales above 1.12529 kilometres per second. Fast enough to easily cross that distance in at most 3.55 seconds.

To answer your first questions

Kurumi can create clones instantly and she is very likely to use it early on.

 

[Random-Helper323]

So Kurumi likely leads with clones. It'd have to be at least two clones, preferably more, before Ainz reached her to make a big difference. And if Ainz sees the clones appear he'll know to target the original body. Best way to counter that is bring out as many clones as possible so he can't tell which is the original. Of course, then he might use his area effect death spells and target all of them. But if Kurumi can leave the field she can then watch her clones tear Ainz apart.

 

[God900]

There is nothing he can do against Kurumi's type 3 Acasuality.