Battle for 5th L7C

[XDragnoir]

Ogami can just put Shadow mind in eternal illusions, mirages to break its will or eternal ice doe.

Strong SE attacks can destroy one's will, so i think Mind can resist it? Actually, i think Mind should have more resistances since he can interact with powerful masses of SE, which have all that passives Dashio listed.

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

Now that I think of it...can Ogami see through the complete darkness that Shadow Mind will instantly apply with its mere presence? SM can also turn itself invisible so there's that. Does Ogami have to see the enemy or know where they are in order for him to EE?

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

Ogami can just put Shadow mind in eternal illusions, mirages to break its will or eternal ice doe.

Strong SE attacks can destroy one's will, so i think Mind can resist it? Actually, i think Mind should have more resistances since he can interact with powerful masses of SE, which have all that passives Dashio listed.

Yes really Shadow Mind can be a space-time rift and a mass that radiates with illusions at the same time, but in different places where they happen, since both of those are made out of Shadow Energy, which is its body.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

@Xdragonir

The illusion doesn't get resisted. The mirages (mind hax) might be far more powerful than he has ever resisted.

@Dashio

Complete darkness should get negged by fire because fire produces light. As for invisibility. He doesn't have to know the exact location with some fires. For others he needs to. Beelzebub doesn't need to considering he can just make the fire rain down and EE (physical EE). If he sees that doesn't work, he just slams white flame into the ground and burns him with EE that can burn type 1 nonexistence.

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

I feel like Shadow Mind can Precog its future death and take immediate action though, like simply teleporting to its universe and snipe with superior range.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Can it though?

Why do i get the feeling like this character is more assumptions than feats?

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

It can see through space and time though.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

That seems a bit vague to grant precog.

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

Well Shadow Mind told the Descendant that Shadow is in the future and he wants to create another reality there (1, 2). It also knew how far in the future Shadow was located (10 years in the future) (1, 2).

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Those do not give precog. He just knew Shadow went into the future through the portal, not that he could see the future.

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

Well it knew what he was doing in the future.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

That's kinda implied to be by knowing its intention rather than seeing the future.

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

Hmmmmm. Alright then no Precog I guess.

By the way, is speed equalized or no?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Apparently unequal. So Rei blitzes pretty hard.

Probs should ask XDragomer to equalize speed.

 

[XDragnoir]

@Xdragonir

The illusion doesn't get resisted. The mirages (mind hax) might be far more powerful than he has ever resisted.

@Dashio

Complete darkness should get negged by fire because fire produces light. As for invisibility. He doesn't have to know the exact location with some fires. For others he needs to. Beelzebub doesn't need to considering he can just make the fire rain down and EE (physical EE). If he sees that doesn't work, he just slams white flame into the ground and burns him with EE that can burn type 1 nonexistence.

Physical EE doesn't matter against someone who doesn't has a physical body, and EEing a type 1 NEP doesn't mean anything if you aren't fighting a type 1 NEP, also what it Rei first move in this key?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

That's what i said, he sees that the physical EE does nothing he just yeets the white flame.

EE-ing even type 1 NEP means you erase even nothingness.

About the first move it's...anything really. But usually the blue flame (complete EE and mirages to break people's will).

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

Shadow Mind's signature movess are Mind Control (has done it once in the second game, and a lot of times in the third game) and Possession (which has once been used with Time Stop). Possession works kind of like this: Shadow Mind slips inside of your mind, and with its appearance there your mind becomes this infinite sized pocket dimension that is full of SE. So in Ogami's case wouldn't Belphegor burn this realm and Shadow Mind, along with Ogami's mind aswell?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Belphegor doesn't affect ogami just the powers on ogami. But im gonna say belphegor nulling an infinite size pocket dimension inside of Ogami's mind is beyond its shown capabilities.

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

This is how the infinite pocket dimension looks like by the way. A bridge that has no start and no end. So really i am just curious if Belphegor has the power to burn this infinite dimension. If he can't, then im pretty sure Shadow Mind takes this, but if he can, Shadow Mind loses.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Belphegor can't null this.

But im gonna have to say it's not as assured to be Shadow's win. Ogami can win before Shadow uses possession. Namely by completely erasing shadow or putting shadow in eternal illusions.

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

Since Shadow Mind sees and hears anything where SE is located, I'd figure the time distorition and other anomalies SE accumulations create is something that doesn't seem to affect Shadow Mind's sanity.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Wdym?

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

Imagine this giant pool of Shadow Energy liquid. This liquid passively causes temporal distortions around it, along with other illusions. If Shadow Mind can see and hear the stuff that happens around this pool of Shadow Energy without going insane, that means it is resistant to its own illusions. It is wierd at first glance when you think about it, the way this verse works is bizzare to say the least.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

If that liquid makes people go insane that's just Madness type 3. It also depends on whether the Shadow Mind can get affected by the illusions.

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

This still boils down to what abilities both of these characters start with. If SM starts with Mind Control, which is as easy as it just waving its hand, and Ogami starts with the physical EE, not knowing it doesn't work on SM, then by the time he switches to white flame SM has already haxed.

But again, its starting moves are random, so its either possession or mind control.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Normal mind control won't work i think. Only possession.

Though this does feel like a bit inconclusive since both have ways around the other so it's just a matter of which uses what.

I vote inconc.

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

Pretty much the same for me.

I vote inconc.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Is there a need to make Rei Ogami vs Shadow?

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

Well Shadow's Fate hax and Accelerator Core might be interesting but it might not make that much of a big difference, it would kinda be the same as this fight.

 

[XDragnoir]

There is something i can't understand, is Mind one with all the SE? Or he just can control that energy?

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

It is the sentience of all the SE, and it has been mentioned multiple times in the story that it knows all the secrets (uses) of SE.

 

[XDragnoir]

So, by SBA, shouldn't a great amount of it be in the 4km limit range? Or is it allowed to start outside the 4km range?

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

If a great amount of SE is present in the 4km limit range then the "Fight Rules" apply as a side effect of its presence (law manip). I think Ogami resists the "No ranged weapon and no magic" rule, I'm think that "Random Equipment" rule won't affect him either since his profile doesn't mention any equipment. He comes back from death everytime he dies from the "Hot Ground" and "The player loses on ring out" rules too (they are not Willpower manip as they appear on SM's profile, I just messed up a bit when listing them, they are both Death manip).

Pretty sure "Inverted movement" rule will give him a hard time to say the least though.

Edit: Also, are Ogami's wincon moves thought based, or does he have to do specific movements to use them?

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

Bump.