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Base Goku (Buu Saga) upgrade

Didn't Goku improve his Super Saiyan transformation during the Cell Arc? So it wouldn't necessarily be a 50x multiplier anymore.

Backscaling from his performance later on the Buu Arc seems a bit much.
 
Damage3245 said:
Didn't Goku improve his Super Saiyan transformation during the Cell Arc? So it wouldn't necessarily be a 50x multiplier anymore.
Click to expand...
4th Grade SSj1 form its an improvement to a standard SSj1 form yes, however that because it consume less stamina and it put less stress on the body.

The form itself doesn't grant a higher multiplier compare to the SSj1, which its the major different compare to the 2nd Grade and 3rd Grade SS1 forms.

2nd Grade and 3rd Grade SS1 are the ones who grant an additional power increase to the standard SSj1, but this by sacrifice stamina, speed and mobility.

Which its why Goku decided to focus on improving the standard SSj1 form, which ended up with him archiving 4th Grade.
 
Last edited:
Stefano4444 said:
4th Grade SSj1 form its an improvement to a standard SSj1 form yes, however that because it consume less stamina and it put less stress on the body.

The form itself doesn't grant a higher multiplier compare to the SSj1, which its the major different compare to the 2nd Grade and 3rd Grade SS1 forms.

2nd Grade and 3rd Grade SS1 are the ones who grant an additional power increase to the standard SSj1, but this by sacrifice stamina, speed and mobility.

Which its why Goku decided to focus on improving the standard SSj1 form, which ended up with him archiving 4th Grade.
Click to expand...
I believe that's the main gist, yes.
 
Damage3245 said:
Didn't Goku improve his Super Saiyan transformation during the Cell Arc? So it wouldn't necessarily be a 50x multiplier anymore.

Backscaling from his performance later on the Buu Arc seems a bit much.
Click to expand...
Goku only improved its stamina drain. Goku said it himself that going through higher grades of SSJ isn't right and instead he should focus only on stamina drain reduction to master the form, which he does after he finishes the training
 
Okay, fair.

By the way, I noticed that Goku is Large Star level+ as a Super Saiyan for scaling to Shin, but Shin's profile has him scaling to "At least Large Star level".

There is an inconsistency here.
 
Damage3245 said:
Okay, fair.

By the way, I noticed that Goku is Large Star level+ as a Super Saiyan for scaling to Shin, but Shin's profile has him scaling to "At least Large Star level".

There is an inconsistency here.
Click to expand...
It should be changed, because Shin's calc was re-done in the same blog to be a hair's thread away from Large Star level+.
 
Damage3245 said:
Okay, fair.

By the way, I noticed that Goku is Large Star level+ as a Super Saiyan for scaling to Shin, but Shin's profile has him scaling to "At least Large Star level".

There is an inconsistency here.
Click to expand...
Cell and buu saga scaling is screwed, sorry. Shin is large star+ due to his own feat and cell saga Goku scales to him, despite that cell saga Goku is not large star+.
 
KLOL506 said:
It should be changed, because Shin's calc was re-done in the same blog to be a hair's thread away from Large Star level+.
Click to expand...
That would still make it Large Star level.

Also, the nature of the feat itself seems ambiguous. I'm not really seeing where the scaling for Shin's durability comes from from this off-screen creation feat.
 
Damage3245 said:
That would still make it Large Star level.

Also, the nature of the feat itself seems ambiguous. I'm not really seeing where the scaling for Shin's durability comes from from this off-screen creation feat.
Click to expand...
You would have to ask the Dragon Ball experts about that, then. But I'm guessing that universal energy shenanigans would make the feat scale to Shin's AP and durability via ki, but again, the DB experts could prolly elaborate more than that.

Also the feat would need to be recalc'd. R136a1's size is now 39.2 solar radii and has a solar mass ranging from 184 to 260 with an averaged value of 215 shown.
 
KLOL506 said:
You would have to ask the Dragon Ball experts about that, then. But I'm guessing that universal energy shenanigans would make the feat scale to Shin's AP and durability via ki, but again, the DB experts could prolly elaborate more than that.

Also the feat would need to be recalc'd. R136a1's size is now 39.2 solar radii and has a solar mass ranging from 184 to 260 with an averaged value of 215 shown.
Click to expand...
Isn't calcing it based off of that a really highball approach for an unspecified creation feat? Why not just calc creating the Sun?
 
Damage3245 said:
Didn't Goku improve his Super Saiyan transformation during the Cell Arc? So it wouldn't necessarily be a 50x multiplier anymore.
Click to expand...
Perfect Super Saiyan just has better stamina and it is accepted as being as strong as normal super saiyan
Damage3245 said:
Backscaling from his performance later on the Buu Arc seems a bit much.
Click to expand...
That would imply it's bigger than a 50x multiplier. Star Level Buu Saga Goku is beyond just a low ball, it's pretty much downplaying the character's power.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Because shin can create any star in the universe, meaning he has to be able to create the biggest star not just stars as big as the sun.
Click to expand...
Can I see the statement for Shin creating any star in the Universe?

Also, if we're being strictly accurate, shouldn't we use the measurements that were available at the time when the chapter was originally published if that is the case?
 
Damage3245 said:
Also, if we're being strictly accurate, shouldn't we use the measurements that were available at the time when the chapter was originally published if that is the case?
Click to expand...
This is a really good point. I was about to mention this, but there's no reason for Akira Toriyama to have had recent studies or measurements in mind when writing this stuff back in the mid-90s.
 
Damage3245 said:
Can I see the statement for Shin creating any star in the Universe?

Also, if we're being strictly accurate, shouldn't we use the measurements that were available at the time when the chapter was originally published if that is the case?
Click to expand...
It's not a statement. Shin is a god of creation and is responsible for creating celestial bodies in the universe, which includes stars, and this would have to include the largest stars as well.
 
www.kanzenshuu.com

Translations | Chōzenshū 1 – We Asked Akira Toriyama! 2013

The first Chōzenshū Q&A session with Dragon Ball original author Akira Toriyama
www.kanzenshuu.com www.kanzenshuu.com
In the film Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods, coming out in March 2013, a new god, the “God of Destruction”, appears. In this [book], Kaiō-sama and Kaiōshin-sama are described as “Gods of Creation”, but do they have the power to create things like planets?

Rather than Kaiōshin-sama making planets, he is able to provide the impetus for them to be born. Also, he will sometimes divide up one planet and increase the number of planets. He will even do things like create life-forms, or transplant them from another planet, but his basic job is to watch over the numerous planets. Because the number of planets is so very large, the four Kaiō-sama help him out as well. They intervene if it appears that the world’s balance will crumble, but normally, they merely act in an advisory role for new life-forms, and don’t get involved. In order to provide a balance to the constantly increasing number of planets, the God of Destruction destroys [them], but he does not act on Kaiōshin’s orders; he destroys according to his own individual judgment. Except, he is capricious, so he will destroy even an important world without a second thought, or when he finds it bothersome, let someone else act as an agent of destruction.​
Click to expand...
 
Nullflowerblush said:
www.kanzenshuu.com

Translations | Chōzenshū 1 – We Asked Akira Toriyama! 2013

The first Chōzenshū Q&A session with Dragon Ball original author Akira Toriyama
www.kanzenshuu.com www.kanzenshuu.com
Click to expand...
13b1ca546d9e2d2c22c2e9170746d0ff.gif
 
Actually, I don't remember anymore about the CRT. Did it have any links or evidence for the "stars" part?
 
Theendzero13 said:
Things ain't looking so pretty for shin
Click to expand...
Relax, he'll still be At least High 4-C via being stronger than Piccolo, just that we axe the "create celestial bodies" part. And the +.

Guess everyone gets ramped up to "At least" then.

Goku gets the following: At least 4-C, at least High 4-C with SSJ1 (Since his High 4-C is superior to Shin, and 50x below that would still make his Buu Saga base 4-C tier well above the Cell Saga base 4-C tier), 4-B with SSJ2
 
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