- 604
- 45
I dont read CFYOW so why didn't Tokinada copy ichimonji shikai ? He couldnt or he didnt want to ?
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion
- Thread starter Zoro21043
- Start date
- 199
- 188
He never got to see Ichimonji in action, if I remember correctly, in the novel it is stated that he saw/copied all the zanpakutou that appeared in the FTK battle and before.
ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn
He/Him- 3,933
- 3,410
You are correct.
- 20,350
- 30,636
I'm just gonna say, Nanana got a death drawing with the Auswahlen episode, and he didn't die that episode. Renji exists in Jaws of Hell arc, so he ain't perma-dead, but uh he might not come back for the fight against Yhwach which would be insane (I think he will come back for that tho).
- 11,965
- 3,306
The only way I can accept this is IF a BIG IF Renji doesn’t show up anymore until the end. Show that he survive with injuries. And have RUKIA replace him in the final battle with a complete Bankai that has a longer timer and able to move. Have Rukia mastered it inside Yukio’s box since he can time chamber time inside of it.
- 16,286
- 17,801
Obviously Renji’s not dead dead, but even the thought that he might be dead while Byakuya survived makes me very upset.
ReaperAndBlues
He/Him- 3,977
- 4,435
Sorry, Anime Fans. Bleach Is Heading Towards a "Deadly" Future, Says Staff
if you know, you know…
Kubo going the Akame Ga Kill route.
- 11,965
- 3,306
Tell me more about… what you mean?
ReaperAndBlues
He/Him- 3,977
- 4,435
Almost everyone dies at the end (at least in the anime)
ReaperAndBlues
He/Him- 3,977
- 4,435
You know, the more and more I rewatch and compare the manga to the anime, I really like the direction they're taking with the characterization. They're making Ichigo more mature and experienced with omitting some of the comedy, like the dialogue between him and Yoruichi at the start of chapter 629 where Yoruichi insulted him comparing him to Yushiro (which would've been in last week's episode), or changing scenes like Ichigo knocking Kon on his ass after he saved his in episode 31. I also liked how the little line about the Soul Pager being added, it's a small plothole that no one cares about, but they still went out of their way to patch it out. Plus, they actually remembered the Soul Pager.
- 1,218
- 419
Sheesh imagine if he was though? We’d have to make separate manga and anime profiles for him at that point lol
- 293
- 330
Could very well be an early series retcon. That scene was at a point in the series where Squad 0 were sent down to handle Menos Grande. I think it's a possibility that Kubo changed his mind on how strong Urahara is supposed to be.
ReaperAndBlues
He/Him- 3,977
- 4,435
Episode 34 is going to adapt the manga from chapter 635 to the beginning of 640 (and by beginning I literally mean the second page of Ajisogi Jizo swallowing Pernida and Mayuri laughing like a cartoonishly evil supervillain. Sadly Kenpachi still gets bitched like in the manga. End poem is from Shunsui (probably the quote he says to Lille at the end of chapter 644) and the next episode title is "DON'T CHASE A SHADOW"
I think 35 is gonna cover the manga from the beginning of 640 to the midway point of chapter 645 when Shunsui introduces himself to Lille Barro. After that, it's either a poem from Katen or a poem from Nanao. Then episode 36 is gonna be "THE THEATRE SUICIDE"
Last edited:
- 1,191
- 261
This is a clear indication of ichigo's techniques's superiority and potentials.
You expect mc to be stronger than his sensei in just firsr arc?
That's also a shounen lol
- 20,350
- 30,636
Can’t wait
Guacamolefletcher
Username Only- 2,232
- 2,470
This weekend, I'm finally gonna be able to watch all the shit I wanted to. I'm boutta binge Bleach for like hours and hours
- 11,965
- 3,306
the manga didn't had parings?
ReaperAndBlues
He/Him- 3,977
- 4,435
Pretty sure the manga did. But the anime went far darker route and went to straight up purge most of the main characters.
- 13,537
- 10,289
What anime original endings do to a series
ReaperAndBlues
He/Him- 3,977
- 4,435
Tokyo Ghoul moment
- 13,537
- 10,289
Well, I mean, Root A was forgotten once Re was adapted, so I guess it's good?
A shame it has the best opening in the series
ReaperAndBlues
He/Him- 3,977
- 4,435
One of the most iconic anime openings of all time
- 13,537
- 10,289
Munou is iconic?
Apollonir.Scale
He/Him- 2,118
- 1,153
I forgot to answer this yesterday.
I don't think all characters can read power levels. If everyone can read, what's left of Pesquisa?
Yammy miscalculates despite having Pesquisa. He couldn't calculate the power of an ordinary person like Tatsuke and asked Uluqiorra "Is that girl strong?"
Grimmjow still believes that he can kill TS Ichigo despite seeing him. If he could read power levels, he would know that it's impossible.
And it's not just Grimmjow. Many characters in the series think that their opponents are weak. Think of the characters who tried to kill Yamamoto and died. If they knew how strong he was, they wouldn't attack out of fear. The same goes for Zaraki.
Just because a character can see spirits doesn't mean they can read reiatsu levels. Unless there is concrete evidence that a character can read power levels (like having Pesquisa, for example), we shouldn't accept it.
According to the wiki, in order to use Pesquisa, it is necessary to close your eyes and enter a meditative state. Since Grimmjow did not close his eyes and enter a meditative state against TS Ichigo, it is not considered that he used Pesquisa and indirectly read his power level. Another way to use it is to read his power by placing your finger on the ground like Nnoitra did. It has also been stated that Uluqiorra is the best Pesquisa user.
I think this is expressed in English as "Not being all out". I don't know how to express it since it's not my native language.
Urahara, I'm sure Ichigo said that because of Ichigo's instant power increase. Why would he need to be Full Power against someone he's already trained with? He says his worst arm got torn off. Besides, if a character is not in combat, that is, if they are "off guard", their stats will drop anyway.
A few examples
1) Tosen gets hit unexpectedly by Hisagi and loses the fight. In that scene, Hisagi thought he was defeated and out of combat. Considering that Tosen has at least 100 times more power than Shikai Hisagi, it's very possible that his durability would drop when he's off guard.
2) There's not a huge power difference between Luppi and Grimmjow. Despite this, Grimmjow one-shotted Luppi. Because Luppi was out of combat and thought Aizen would protect him from Grimmjow.
Urahara also sees Ichigo's Getsuga Tensho for the first time. He didn't expect this level of power.
Unless Urahara says something like "I'm rusty, I'm not as strong as I used to be", we can't say he's weakened. Yoruichi lost her Zanpaktou and started bulking up after the battle with Yammy. But Urahara didn't say he's weakened, nor did he train until Fake Karakura Town.
Edit: And I don't know what "Clyde" means
For Gin, I would say Gin>Harribel. That's because Aizen said let's go to Gin and Tosen after killing Harribel.
Let me present an argument that I haven't presented before.
The 3 arrancar girls next to Harribel use Resurection in the arrancar saga and summon Ayon. In the fight against Quilge, they summon Ayon without Resurection. FKT Ayon>TYBW Ayon. Ayon was beating Quilge. Quilge was weaker than him unless he absorbed him.
Harribel>Resurection Ayon>Wihout Resurection Ayon>Volstandig Quilge~~Fullbringer Bankai Ichigo
I'm currently reading the CFYOW Novel. From what I've heard before, Liltotto is afraid of Harribel. If it's true, the scaling is as follows:
Harribel>Base Liltotto>Meninas>Robert
and Bakuya uses Bankai against Robert. He feels the need to back down against Candice. According to the profiles, Candice got the Ap feat over Byakuya. It was also stated that Liltotto and Meninas were stronger than Candice.
Liltotto is a very powerful character. One of the strongest non-elite quincy
Royd>Gremmy>Bambietta>Quilge>Liltotto
The statement he used for Yammy should not be interpreted as just power. Zaraki stands out with his brute strength, while Byakuya stands out with his nobility. In the CFYOW novel, when Hisagi was compared to other characters, it was said that he was "not as noble as Byakuya" and "does not have Zaraki's brute strength". I do not think it is right to interpret it as just power.
Also, can't such statements be an exaggeration? There is a statement for Grimmjow that he surpasses his own race.
ReaperAndBlues
He/Him- 3,977
- 4,435
I forgot you were talking about the other. Got it confused with Unravel. It's been a minute have mercy
Excellence616
He/Him- 6,971
- 5,112
Any Soul can read power level. Even weak Souls like Tatsuki can sense power level except Transcendent
Yammy is a dummy
He just wants to fight. He doesn't care if he dies. Bro loves to fight.
Anyone who tried daring Yamamoto either they were being cocky or came to send a message
Guacamolefletcher
Username Only- 2,232
- 2,470
If he wasn't all out, he could've literally unsuppress himself, and no sold it. He made no indication of this, the databook makes no indication of this, and if anything implies the opposite. This is an unsupported and contradicted conclusion.
He wasn't offguard, he was literally standing there seeing it coming. He literally had time to go "scream: benihime"
He can sense power, and he has time to sense it and unsuppress himself. also people can feel power without having to actively look for it.
There is no stated power connection between TYBW Ayon and FKT Ayon, so you can't make that argument.
Except, via direct scaling, Fullbring Bankai Ichigo >>>>>>>> SAFWY Zaraki >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harribel
That's not what the statement is saying, and there is no other way of interpreting it. Nobility doesn't factor into being stronger than other people here. Being able to put a dent in Byakuya is an issue of strength, and he fulfills the criteria, meaning he's worthy of the position which means he's the strongest out of all of them.
- 20,350
- 30,636
Pesquisa is just an enhanced spiritual sensory technique of the Arrancar/their version of the reikaku (spirit ribbons that Ichigo utilizes in the first arc). Also, the existence of Pesquisa does not disprove the notion that characters can read power levels. Your argument here is pure incredulity.
Yammy explicitly is not utilizing his Pesquisa in that situation, hence why Ulquiorra says as such. Also, later in the arc Yammy explicitly senses Ulquiorra and Ichigo's battle.
If you know anything about Grimmjow, or have read CFYOW (which is accepted as canon here), you'd know that it is in character for Grimmjow to pick fights with people even if he instinctually knows he cannot win. That much is stated verbatim in CFYOW. So, this is a nonpoint, as regardless of if Grimmjow believes it's impossible or not, he'd pick the fight regardless.
This might be difficult to comprehend, but characters can be flawed, and in particular that flaw can be arrogance. Not every single character is a soulless, logical, mechanical robot. Look at Byakuya vs Zommari for example, the entire point of that fight is the difference between their two prides, Zommari is immensely arrogant because of his hax, mistakeningly believing he can defeat Byakuya. Point being, the arrogance of characters, who by definition are fallable, does not entail your conclusion.
Luckily we don't claim that because a character can sense spirits they can read reiatsu level. We have explicit feats of characters sensing reiatsu levels and reading them.
The Bleach wiki is wrong. Also, Ulquiorra being the best at Pesquisa (provide that scan please), and Nnoitra being able to do so via touching the ground, doesn't mean that only Ulquiorra can read reiatsu levels or that only if you touch the ground you can do so. Both of these points don't entail any conclusion in support of your premise.
Nope, it's actually stated and implied to be the opposite. It's just stated that Kisuke had to actually try to block the Getsuga.
Prove that claim. You're asserting Urahara is off guard or that his power level stays stagnant throughout the series without providing any evidence of that whatsoever. If you're just going to posit and unsubstantiated claim, I can dismiss it with an equally unsubstantiated interpretation. We know characters can grow rusty after many years out of combat, like Yoruichi, and given Kisuke has been in exile, not doing any strenuous combat, we have due reason to believe he isn't at his peak at the start of the series, and can thus grow stronger over time.
Furthermore, Kisuke being ~Ulquiorra level months before he fights Aizen by no means makes him not Aizen level. Kisuke can simply have gotten stronger. YOU need to prove that Kisuke months before the fight with Aizen is the same level of strength as the Kisuke that fought Aizen.
Prove that means he's off guard. You can be fighting seriously and be surprised at your opponent's power.
We actually don't need Urahara to explicitly say he's rusty to assume he's weaker. If there's nothing that indicates his power level stays the same over time, then better feats over time indicate he got stronger. You're attempting to shift the burden of proof away from yourself, but that's just not going to happen. Also, prove he didn't train for the fight against Aizen, since we explicitly know he was preparing for that fight which indicates the opposite conclusion.
You keep making claims without substantiating them whatsoever. A piece of advice, when you make a claim, you need to provide evidence for that claim.
He's notorious for shitty Bleach takes.
Why does the Tres Bestias Resurreccion make Ayon stronger? And what basis do you have to compare Ayon after a 2 year time skip? This is a baseless claim.
I'm not going to address your scaling chain since it's all predicated on a false premise. Until you prove FKT Ayon > TYBW Ayon, the above is all useless ramble.
Not really sure what you're trying to say here. But Zaraki being notable for being a berserker while Byakuya is notable for his aristocracy doesn't mean anything for Yammy.
Statements can be exaggeration. However, you need to provide due reasoning to assume a statement is exaggerated. You can't just handwave a statement because stuff can be hyperbolic unless you provide evidence for it being hyperbolic.
- 11,965
- 3,306
I don’t know about the finale being Bazz-B vs Jugram. Is not something that can top Cour 2 ending. Unless, we see a lot of what happened 1,000 years ago and we see Yhwach’s defeat against Yamamoto instead of small clip flashbacks and Bazz-B and Jugram’s perspectives. I don’t think it would be enough as many casual viewers don’t care about Bazz-B and Jugram. But that’s just my point of view. Anyone want to tell me otherwise? I just don’t feel the vibe. I hope is something so awesome that my low expectations are blown out of the water. Really hope so.
- 20,350
- 30,636
I thoroughly enjoy the Friends saga, but I'm a massive Jugram fan so there's that. I think an extended in depth flashback that has loads of Quincy and Soul King lore would be an awesome finale. I remember back in 2015/16 thinking this arc needed a turn back the pendulum style flashback, and I think the anime can turn Friends saga into that.
Guacamolefletcher
Username Only- 2,232
- 2,470
I think it's interesting that BazzB and Jugram are very very likely a similar age to Unohana, and far far far older than Ukitake and Shunsui. I feel like people don't point this out.
Also the fact that we know they were Sternritters, and some of the Quincy we saw Yamamoto bring back were their underlings or something like that. At least, we know that they died while Bazz-B and Jugram didn't, so it'd be interesting to know why and how they survived.
great response, lol
Also, tip:
please don't use the Bleach wiki as sources. It's great for finding the places of fights and shit like that, cause they're good with citations sometimes, but the mods are bad with lore.
Last edited:
PerezosoUlixes
He/Him- 58
- 101
Isn't Clyde the same guy that scales Ulquiorra to the feats of Hell movie's Full Hollow Ichigo?
Also I remember him saying that Yamamoto has trascendental power levels by Ukitake statements about his Shikai
- 1,191
- 261
Some guys here think otherwise and it's hella funny
Seems fine except liltotto is the strongest among bambis.
Ayon absorbed quilgie should be above bambis as well.
But royd > gremmy > rest of the sternritter is fine.
Apollonir.Scale
He/Him- 2,118
- 1,153
Which is stronger, the Summon formed by 3 characters with ressurection or the Summon formed by the same 3 characters with their base forms? You are the one who needs to prove that summons like Ayon can become stronger over time, my friend. I gave you the ressurection example to explain why FKT Ayon>TYBW Ayon. So can you show me something other than an assumption that can prove TYBW Ayon>FKT Ayon?
Also, if we say that Ayon's power did not increase or decrease, it will still be Harribel>Ayon>Volstandig Quilge. This also refutes the Low Tier Quincy>Espada idea.
Could you please write down these abilities for me? And do Ginjo and Tsukishima have at least one of these abilities to read power levels? If they evaluate the Ichigo forms Orohime saw in his memory and say that Fullbringer Ichigo is stronger, then Orohime must also have an ability to read power levels and use it.
Apollonir.Scale
He/Him- 2,118
- 1,153
So why Fullbring Bankai Ichigo>Safwy Zaraki?
ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn
He/Him- 3,933
- 3,410
Not only that, he genuinely believes that if Segunda Etapa Ulquiorra was dropped into the Fake Karakura Town arc, the only who could beat him is Yamamoto. He also believes that Ulquiorra would wipe the floor with most of the Stern Ritters.
Yeah... his takes aren't great.Also I remember him saying that Yamamoto has trascendental power levels by Ukitake statements about his Shikai
Similar threads
