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She wanted to put Unohana above Aizen and Yamamoto, so no. Aizen’s still stronger than her, the Q&A just means the gap between them is smaller than we previously thought.
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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion
- Thread starter Zoro21043
- Start date
Ped2018
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Oh... Her wanking was bigger than i remembered
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It's crazy the lenghts people go to. Even going as far as saying the fights are not canon because they refuse to even entertain the idea of Renji being strong.
And it's not like he do not have solid justifications either. He trained with D0 and learned his true bankai. It's not like it was Ikkaku scaling to D0 with normal training and a bankai in pieces.
And it's not like he do not have solid justifications either. He trained with D0 and learned his true bankai. It's not like it was Ikkaku scaling to D0 with normal training and a bankai in pieces.
Guacamolefletcher
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that literally would be her not winning, because Aizen would win for sure. That's not what Raven argued
This also perfectly slots into the scaling we had (I passed) addressing Kid Kenpachi and Post-Training Kenpachi. It'd make sense that someone who can No-diff Unohana can defeat fake Yhwach.
ReaperAndBlues
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Raven wanted to scale Unohana above Aizen, not relative, so she didn't win.
Peterdenman156
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I keep noticing that Uryu's voll still do not have the Halo like the others.
ReaperAndBlues
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Could probably be a product of him being a Geschmit Quincy
Bastolan27
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Never speak again; that would literally make Fullbring Bankai Ichigo 2-C, so please stop and accept the Yama L
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translation needed
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Malekith
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Kubo didn't plan these battles in advance, the producers gave ideas, Kubo made the draft as he always has, they brought the battle back, he approved it and everything was fine. The battle not being something he would have added to the manga doesn't mean he didn't supervise and approve what was put into the anime
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“Never speak again” very kind attitude towards debate, why don’t you counter what I say? It’s a discussion and people need to be open minded and see other options as well, not only just fight to be right.
the shaking isn’t 2C, her full power is 2C. I think that’s an important difference we are not acknowledging.
Do you realise Yama has a direct dimension-busting statement written by the author right?…
Yet you seriously think Renj, who couldn’t even scratch Uryu is more deserving of a universal tier? That’s laughably ironic as much as thinking rukia is million times weaker than him. Narrative wise Renji wasn’t even stronger than base Yhwach when he landed with Rukia.
If you genuinely think Bankai Yamamoto or Fullbring Ichigo are less deserving of a 2C tier than Renji, then your understanding of Bleach is severely lacking. CFYOW explicitly stated that Yamamoto dominates, and unless Kubo outright contradicts it, which never happened, this is still likely true.
I’m glad some people liked my comment because yeah I can see how much people which are not familiar with bleach lore scaling are talking here.
And given the only thing I can read is “cope about Renji” more like “cope about Yama”, I’m not even dismissing Renji downscaling from Shutara shaking, simple those people which where superior in the scaling, still scale above.
I’ve been here for a long time, and I challenge anyone to dig through and post proof of how many times I’ve been wrong about Bleach, spoiler: it’s not happening. To tell someone like me to “never speak again” is laughable. But again we can wait time and see who’s right.
Peterdenman156
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Klub Outside
Q660
十の入れ替わりって藍染が決めているのでしょうか？それとも剣ハみたく決闘で勝った方に藍染が数字を与えるとか？
A660
どちらのパターンもあります。
Translation ChatGTP
Q660
Did Aizen change the members of the Espada at his own discretion? Or, like the title of Kenpachi, did Aizen assign the number to the winner of a duel?
A660
Both options are possible.
Q660
十の入れ替わりって藍染が決めているのでしょうか？それとも剣ハみたく決闘で勝った方に藍染が数字を与えるとか？
A660
どちらのパターンもあります。
Translation ChatGTP
Q660
Did Aizen change the members of the Espada at his own discretion? Or, like the title of Kenpachi, did Aizen assign the number to the winner of a duel?
A660
Both options are possible.
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If Kubo as the author and member of the anime's directorship approved it, then it is canon. Furthermore, we don't even know what battles this statement covers.Anime is not canon.Filler scenes.
ReaperAndBlues
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My alternate world headcanon is that Barragan's rating was probably spite, however, databooks disagrees with that, although it would be hella funny if Aizen made him number two out of spite of his defiance. He has proven to be petty at times.
Peterdenman156
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So, what do you think the Top Espada in the Arrancar Arc should be like to make sense?
Hellscream
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Baraggan rank 1, Ulquiorra rank 2, Yammy rank 3, Starrk rank 4
Starrk / yammy can swap places depending on which one you believe is stronger
Ah, maybe i should call baraggan rank 0 instead
Starrk / yammy can swap places depending on which one you believe is stronger
Ah, maybe i should call baraggan rank 0 instead
Bastolan27
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Crazy, can't take a joke
The feat that got her to 2-C in the first place was the shaking coupled with the statement. The only other way is a chain of downscaling that, believe me, will never get accepted by itself, especially since we literally have no idea what the difference between incomplete Vollstandig and complete Vollstandig is
CFYOW doesn't matter, the anime will always take precedence; plus, as 1000 people said before me, the scaling depends on what happens now and if it contradicts something, for all we know, Renji will fight SK Yhwach and if that happens then all of your narrative BS doesn't matter. Heck, narratively, you can make the argument that Renji is supposed to be at this level because he didn't die from SK Yhwach's soul crush, even if he was an illusion, Yhwach thought it plausible that he could be there, while Yama caps at base Yhwach
Crazy, who's acting condescending now?
Crazy, Can't take a joke
Keep coping, Yama caps at 7-B. Lmao Lmao
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Bastolan27
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What I mean is that the statement by itself is not a feat that would get her to 2-C, so the only feat is the shaking plus the statement together. One or the other by itself won't do shit
ReaperAndBlues
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You two goobers quit it while you're ahead. This butting heads is only gonna get either of you in hot water once you go too far.
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I don’t think any pre skip character like Base Aizen should scale to post RG Renji especially with his new feats. It’d turn into a whole plethora of people scaling to 2C. Urahara for being his equal, Quilge via Urahara not being able to harm his while his Blut Vene is being used. FB Bankai Ichigo(which I wouldn’t mind) for clowning on Quilge. You could even use Liltotto’s statement of expecting VS Candice to be a good fight for FB Bankai Ichigo based on the data they had to upgrade the Bambi’s to 2C.
Just wait till the cour is over. Arc is right that there’s still a lot of things that can happen that’ll explain stuff and I trust his judgment on where to scale people
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What? No it doesn't. Yamamoto is stated to be stronger than the characters present (besides Kenpachi) and the heads of the Four Great Noble Houses, but Renji is a) not present for any of Bleach: Can't Fear Your Own World and b) he's not the head of one the Noble Houses.
Hellscream
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Renji is not stronger than yamamoto lol, get your head out of the clouds
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If he is or isn't stronger than Renji isn't the point, the point is that using Can't Fear Your Own World to argue that Yamamoto is stronger than Renji doesn't work.
Guacamolefletcher
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He said both are possible, however, given what has been stated, it's unequivocally them being ranked on their literal attack potency. I don't think I can post it here, but I wrote like a several thousand word dissertation on why this is the case, based on the sum of statements we were given. I made it in another wiki, but it's not "for another wiki," it was for a place where you can post your own work and it's still distinctly yours.
This is a very popular headcanon, but unfortunately it's not true.
No. Ulquiorra 5, Harribel 4, Baraggan 3, Starrk 2, Yammy 1.
This is the incorrect mindset
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Hellscream
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Yes.
Harribel is the weakest of all the mentioned characters.
Ulquiorra's segunda etapa was not counted towards the actual rankings of the espada, so it's essentially another 5-10x boost.
And even with that, none of the characters mentioned before are getting past baraggan's hax
Guacamolefletcher
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This is factually untrue, because it's explicitly stated in a databook that even with the power he displayed, he was still only worthy of being the 4th espada
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Do you have a scan of that?
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If the anime doesn’t provide some connective scaling for Yama to be above Renji, then yes Renji is stronger. So atm considering Renji scales in an absolute vacuum in the anime, as of this past episode Renji beats the dog out of Yama. Before you say “but Yama is stronger than Byakuya!!!”, Renji currently beats the dog out of Byakuya too lmao.
But for all you people who can’t stop crying about Renji getting some spotlight. There is a very real world in which we have sumn like this: Shikai Yama/base Aizen tier characters > RG Byakuya > RG Renji ~ Uryu < Uryu with Blut (5-10x) ~ Shutara. And in that case you’d have a handful of characters being about an order of magnitude weaker than Squad 0 Bankai level characters. If that does happen, all I’ll say is Gremmy scaling to his galaxy room, would become so much more consistent. So, honestly, all of y’all that have been fiending for the higher tier Gremmy and Yama scaling all these years, should be thanking Renji. Since if it happens, it’ll happen because of Renji lmao.
Hellscream
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What databook would that be?
ReaperAndBlues
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Factually false. SAFWY confirms that the Espada are accurately ranked and even Ulquiorra himself stated that there were three Espada that were stronger than him.
Guacamolefletcher
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Yes, but I don't have access to it right now. I swear this is gonna sound like the ultimate "source: I made it up" moment ever, but I have it in my scan server, and only have discord downloaded on another PC
Hellscream
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You mean the ranking based on reiatsu, not overall combat ability?
So you'd have Ulquiorra, who's first release is capable of putting him at the 4th place, and believe his second release wouldn't boost that status?
Would you mind proving Ulquiorra was including his secondary transformation in the rankings, which he deliberately kept hidden from Aizen?
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I don't want to get into a huge debate about this but I will just say that it seems self-evident that statement was made without taking into account Yammy's Resurrección or Ulquiorra's second Resurrección. At the time Ulquiorra was ranked 4th and he would've just been referring to there being a 3rd, 2nd and 1st Espada above him.
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