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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

Arcker123 said:
P1) If something has a name, Ichibe named it
P2) Our universe has a name
C1) Ichibe gave our universe name
P3) For all x, if Ichibei named it, than ichibei has complete influence over it.
C2) Ichibe has complete influence over the universe
P4) If something has complete control over the universe, they are universal
C3) Ichibe is universal
Click to expand...
I always thought of Ichibei having conceptual manipulation type 1, but I was thinking recently of Reio having the best case for it (should I make a thread on it?). But here are the possible options:

1) When Reio created the concepts of life and death, it resulted in World of the Living, the concept of life, and Soul Society, the concept of death. So its possible Reio had a blank canvas of sorts, that then Ichibei gave a name to (hence the phenomena part of the statement).

2) The Black itself is conceptual type 1 in nature (it surrounds everything in the Bleach universe as a whole, acting as a sort of metaphysical aspect), but the Names are type 2 in nature.

3) I am simply overthinking.

What you all think? I think Reio has the best case, but I wanna add to this whole convo. Bare in mind, this is my guesstimates on what is possible, as I ain't 100% sure yet.
 
KillerNerd007 said:
I always thought of Ichibei having conceptual manipulation type 1, but I was thinking recently of Reio having the best case for it (should I make a thread on it?). But here are the possible options:

1) When Reio created the concepts of life and death, it resulted in World of the Living, the concept of life, and Soul Society, the concept of death. So its possible Reio had a blank canvas of sorts, that then Ichibei gave a name to (hence the phenomena part of the statement).

2) The Black itself is conceptual type 1 in nature (it surrounds everything in the Bleach universe as a whole, acting as a sort of metaphysical aspect), but the Names are type 2 in nature.

3) I am simply overthinking.

What you all think? I think Reio has the best case, but I wanna add to this whole convo. Bare in mind, this is my guesstimates on what is possible, as I ain't 100% sure yet.
Click to expand...
Why does Reio have the best case for conceptual type 1? Outside his many transcend everything statements (plus anything related to him as well), he created the concepts of life and death in the primordial universe where none of that existed, which requires him (as a part of the type) to have it be independent from that part of the reality they govern, and also requires to shape the reality of that specific, not many even can effect the Reio without special things (such as Yhwach). Same thing would go to Reio's existence itself.

"Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern, except maybe of other concepts of this nature. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the concept of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of their area of influence, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept."
 
KillerNerd007 said:
Why does Reio have the best case for conceptual type 1? Outside his many transcend everything statements (plus anything related to him as well), he created the concepts of life and death in the primordial universe where none of that existed, which requires him (as a part of the type) to have it be independent from that part of the reality they govern, and also requires to shape the reality of that specific, not many even can effect the Reio without special things (such as Yhwach). Same thing would go to Reio's existence itself.

"Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern, except maybe of other concepts of this nature. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the concept of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of their area of influence, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept."
Click to expand...
Saw your pfp and thought @IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 was back
 
We are so back 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

  • Depending on now Ichigo vs Uryu goes, Casual Shikai Ichigo might be 4-A.
  • Senjumaru can summon hollows, fuse using her with her bankai (like Soya), etc.
  • Senjumaru's Bankai can create a counter measure for each opponent
  • Universal Ichibe
  • Possibly CM 1 Ichibe which might affect those with Soul King fragments
  • Stealing the night from the future will affect his range
  • The PV of OG Bleach is so peak that I started imagining every episodes in that animation. I really hope for a remake after TYBW ends. Cour 3 episode 1 reached my expectations. Pierrot Films weren't joking at all. Kudos to them for their work.
  • New contents just for this episode is peak and peak.
  • Kubo really really really cooked.
 
I have now seen the new anime episode and I thought it was fantastic. Uryū is finally getting the respect he deserves. Ichibe is becoming more broken - both ability and scaling wise. Heck, Yhwach's stuff becomes more explicit and gains new feats, such as burning away Shutara's Bankai linens with The Almighty.

All in all, I really enjoyed the episode.
 
Excellence616 said:
Depending on now Ichigo vs Uryu goes, Casual Shikai Ichigo might be 4-A.
Click to expand...
We already treat Shikai Ichigo as 4-A.

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ichigo Kurosaki (Post-Timeskip)

Ichigo Kurosaki (黒崎くろさき 一いち護ご, Kurosaki Ichigo?) is the son of Masaki Kurosaki and Isshin Kurosaki, a Quincy with the powers of a Soul Reaper. Years after the death of his mother, Ichigo uses his innate spiritual awareness to help local ghosts, and unlocks his potential as a Soul Reaper when...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
Ovy7 said:
Based on the info card, Ichibe also named all events, and he can influence anything he named.
https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/856923869448110090/1292161699063009361/Screenshot_20241005_192736_Google.jpg?ex=6702badc&is=6701695c&hm=480abfe5bfd4e5b9bb2665575ebdfd3f6a13cec9ccb2def69ea6369040f6808e&https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/856923869448110090/1292161699402612756/Screenshot_20241005_192631_Google.jpg?ex=6702badc&is=6701695c&hm=b57cb5e491ec37b9ba2d7d067d5df6da286f98c4ca8e1f9e7913317803f7ae56&
Click to expand...
Hey, wait a second, I just realized something. We know that Ichibe existed before the Three Worlds were split thanks to Can't Fear Your Own World, which means that Ichibe might've named the Three Worlds himself! That could be good support for Low 2-C/2-C Ichibe (and who knows, maybe he named space and time too since they likely didn't exist back then).

I'm hoping that next episode features the Soul King flashback I've been hearing rumors about, so we can see what actually happened back then.
 
Tyri456 said:
Casual Ichigo is the one against fodder, Uryu is not fodder anymore
Click to expand...
Agreed, but that is assuming TS Ichigo still cap at 4-A in the anime. If he is buffed ,he could be casual and fight a incomplete voll 4-A Uryu, trying to reason with him and go serious on Uryu later on when Uryu complete the master of his powers.
 
So we went from only the Schutzstaffel getting a buff from Aushwählen in the manga. To Uryu, Hasschwalth, & Schutzstaffel all getting two buffs (Auswählen, Almighty) in the anime. Cool. And from the looks of it

Pre-Auswählen Uryu/Haschwalth can somewhat keep up with Sealed Power Squad 0 blocking their attacks and all but can’t defeat them like Post-Auswählen Vollständig Schutzstaffel. But they should roughly be around the same level of power.

Post-Auswählen Uryu/Haschwalth are unknown but based on how their Pre-Auswählen selves were somewhat close to Sealed Power Squad 0 level I assume they are stronger than Post-Auswählen Vollständig Schutzstaffel.

Post-Almighty Uryu is shown to be able to match attacks from Full Power Bankai Senjumaru. And in the manga it’s shown that Haschwalth can fight Uryu so I assume they are pretty much on the same level.

Assuming they are always using Blut when fighting. Scaling up to this point with a mix of manga info and some assumptions here and there

Post-Almighty Vollständig Uryu >> Full Power Bankai Squad 0 >= Post-Almighty Base Uryu/Haschwalth > Post-Almighty Vollständig Schutzstaffel > Post-Auswählen Base Uryu/Haschwalth > Post-Auswählen Vollständig Schutzstaffel >= Sealed Power Squad Zero >= Pre-Auswählen Base Uryu/Haschwalth > Pre-Auswählen Vollständig Schutzstaffel >> Pre-Auswählen Base Schutzstaffel

This is just my scaling of what I think that I made for fun with some assumptions btw. Not the actual scaling that should be used on the profile. Also still not sure where the Schutzstaffel‘s Base after each amp or their Sklaverei Vollständig, nor Lille/Gerard Vollständig 2nd Form would scale in this chain as we don’t have enough new info from the anime. Though I’d take a guess and say Lille and Gerard would be around Vollständig Uryu level with their Vollständig 2nd Form.

What do you guys think the complete scaling will be like for the top 6 Quincies and Squad 0?

Also shouldn’t Bankai Senjumaru be like 5x the shaking three realms feat? Since that’s something they could do casually even without the need of Bankai according to Senjumaru.

And Ichibē doesn’t seem to have a sealed power state so shouldn’t he just have one key that’s 4-A for being the de facto leader of Squad 0 and thus stronger than the other members at full power?
 
Last edited:
I wouldn't mind if Kubo says Ichibei is transcendent level

Like Condom Aizen or Rockstar Aizen level

Dude is a whole ass primordial entity who apparently named everything ( including the current universe )

Would make sense for him to be God Tier
 
Peter1129 said:
He is implied to be though. Like in the manga Yhwach couldn’t sense any reiatsu from his brush when he released his Shikai. Although it’s more likely that Kubo dropped the whole concept of transcendents after the Arrancar Saga. Cause based on statements and what Ichibe said in the anime about Ichigo surpassing a soul reaper it’s pretty much confirmed that True Shikai Ichigo is a transcendent now. And yet everybody can still sense his reiatsu even when he’s serious.
Click to expand...

Given how inconsistent transcendence seemed in TBYW Manga ( as you pointed out ) the best explanation I could think of as to why Yhwach couldn't sense Ichibei's Shikai was likely moreso due to its conceptual nature or whatever
 
Like lmao

******* SOIFON could somehow sense the Reio's reiatsu in the manga

Butterfly Aizen level Soifon confirmed 🙏
 
Honestly in my opinion the ones that probably are in fact transcendent at the time of TYBW are

Soul King
Yhwach
Mimihagi
Ichigo
Aizen
Ichibe

Pretty self explanatory why they are transcendent. And the ones that can be argued to be transcendent would be

Uryu
Haschwalth
Vollständig 2nd Form Lille
Vollständig 2nd Form Gerard
Full Power Squad 0

Uryu it’s because he’s most likely gonna be on True Shikai Ichigo’s level even in Base by this point. Haschwalth can fight Uryu not to mention at night he has Almighty so he’s pretty much arguably transcendent as well. Lille in his 2nd form has the whole light of god stuff going on which kinda implies he’s transcendent as well. Gerard I just assume he’s essentially a 2nd Lille since he’s the only other Schutzstaffel with a Vollständig 2nd form. Full Power Squad 0 it’s because their bodies were all changed to the Oken so I assume they can’t really be considered normal shinigami’s anymore which kinda fits the definition of transcendent that Aizen said about surpassing the limits of a shinigami.

Like I personally think being stronger than Bankai Yamamoto who is the peak of a shinigami would mean a character is now stepping into the realm of transcendents.
 
@Peter1129

My only issue with Transcendent level S0 is that didn't Shunsui sense Bankai Senjumaru's power when she released it?

And Isshin and Kisuke, characters FAR stronger than Shunsui could not sense even Condom Aizen's power level due to being far too strong for them to?

And Condom Aizen is like the weakest transcendent by far?
 
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