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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

KingogKings777 said:
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This is very sus
 
Hasch said:
-I didn't ignore that, that's the very reason the argument is about pure swordfigting, that both her and Zaraki are weaker than others overall but still recognized as the strongest in melee.

You don't seem to understand my point at all.
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That you plucked an arbitrary definition for Kenpachi out of the air and insist upon arguing it? I very much do understand your argument, I just disagree with it for reasons I’ve already stated.
Hasch said:
-Can never be prime Ikko because he didn't recover his name, Zaraki merely killed him as the seal was being broken. Also what evidence do you have about time not weakening the seal or a sudden power boost not being able to break the seal once applied?
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That’s not how this works lmao. You are the one making the claim it weakens overtime so you need to prove it. As for a boost in power breaking it, that’s my argument smh. Iko’s growth in power from eating Hikone’s fragments made him too strong for Ichibe’s hax, and thus Ichibe, to seal him.
Hasch said:
-Because Ikko was sealed thousands of years ago, and Ywach seemingly broke out of the seal he was under in 1000.
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What did Yhwach break out of in 1000 years?Cuz it sure wasn’t Ichibe’s naming hax.
Hasch said:
This is wrong simply because the databook isn't entirely written by the author, the manga is, in the manga as a swordswoman she simply has better feats than Yamamoto
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I don’t know if you know this but Kubo isn’t the one in charge of Bleach, the publisher (Shueisha) is. He may write for them and be responsible as the primary author but if it is officially licensed and published material with Shueisha’s stamp of approval on it, it is equally canon. Like I said, the manga only takes precedence when the two contradict each other.
Hasch said:
About the Zenkais, the ones before the TYBW where just him drawing his old strenght but that reserve is dry after Unohana, who he barely beat only wih his full power restored, meaning he lost with something like 90% of his full power just minutes before.
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All souls get stronger from adversity and what proof do you have Kenpachi regained his full power? Kid Kenny immediately wounded and overwhelmed her the moment he attacked in the past yet you are claiming he is now equal to Retsu? No. He was constantly nerfing himself in the past to have more fun and prolong the battle so the only thing you can actually say for certain about post-Muken’s strength is that it surpassed Retsu’s and is as much as she could bring forth.
Hasch said:
And he tripped frozen Gerard, so no point on bringing that up, instead try and prove characters get exponentially stronger after every defeat.
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You mean the frozen Gerard who wasn’t affected by the ice and is stronger than the one that smacked around Shikai Kenpachi? Peak argument right there.
Hasch said:
The anime is the one where we actually see the full fight, and is incredible that you say Zaraki wasn't trying when that goes directly against the point of the fight.

Zaraki is going all out using full power and determined to win, his mental blocks based on his fear of killing her are gone, she notices this and so she doesn't fix her wound like she did 1000 years ago.
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The anime … where he won by being physically stronger? The thing you claimed wasn’t the deciding factor for who has the title above? Your own arguments and definitions mean that Kenpachi doesn’t deserve the title even after beating her since it wasn’t him overcoming her skill but just being much stronger … so we can loop right back to Retsu isn’t deserving of the Kenpachi title because she isn’t the strongest or because she isn’t the most skilled.

You are aware that this debate stems from Raven’s CRT to scale Retsu’s AP to/above Yama and Aizen, right? Something you agreed with. Your argument that “Kenpachi” refers to sword skill is just shifting goalposts and headcanon that Retsu was unsurpassed.
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
The story doesn't make sense or not make sense, it's up to the person making the interpretation. It sounds to me like you couldn't make a consistent interpretation of the events, i.e. a skill issue
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Agree with that, The few people that read CFYOW carefully here, know how to scale byakuya, the femritters, grimmjow, shunsui, and so on, and it turns out pretty consistent
so they know how to contextualise Meninas statement.

other people, just read blindly some phrases, try to scale quincy girls to zaraki and Ichigo because of that, and have no idea of what they are talking about.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
Given the difference in power, Ichigo shouldn't even have used any kind of Getsuga. I think with literally one finger he could easily kill them all. Candice's first attack and that first getsuga canceling each other out is pretty weird.
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we also seem to forget that like... Ichigo doesn't know that many techniques. His only real ranged attack is the getsuga tensho. It's easier for him to fire a weak GT from a distance than to move there and stab her
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
we also seem to forget that like... Ichigo doesn't know that many techniques. His only real ranged attack is the getsuga tensho. It's easier for him to fire a weak GT from a distance than to move there and stab her
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He can make long-range attacks without getuga. Do you remember what he did to Ginjo? A normal ranged attack. He could do the same with the femritters but this time using his finger or he could swing his dick and **** them from a distance.
 
Tyri456 said:
Agree with that, The few people that read CFYOW carefully here, know how to scale byakuya, the femritters, grimmjow, shunsui, and so on, and it turns out pretty consistent
so they know how to contextualise Meninas statement.

other people, just read blindly some phrases, try to scale quincy girls to zaraki and Ichigo because of that, and have no idea of what they are talking about.
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I've read all the novels thoroughly and i know exactly where everyone scales for the most part.

Nothing contradicts her scaling to zaraki sure she broke some fingers punching hikone a few dozen meters but that's only cuz of his steel skin and blute which has steel like hardness. He hit ichigo a much stronger opponent and didnt break any fingers Because he's not using heirro or blute. Keep in mind this was base meinias who is much weaker after losing her holy form.
 
Reio35 said:
When Candice charged up to her V2 holy form we see her absorb buildings around ichigo and he wasn't even fazed
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Maybe intentional? Seem like they lost the desire to steal from shinigami because of the hollowfication stuff no? Unless they don't have direct control over what they can absorb idr. Ik they used the medallion to steal bankais but being corrupted by hollow is still a valid fear
 
AnonymousBlank said:
That you plucked an arbitrary definition for Kenpachi out of the air and insist upon arguing it? I very much do understand your argument, I just disagree with it for reasons I’ve already stated.
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Would be arbitrary without all the statements and feats that give the context. Again is not hard to connect the dots.


AnonymousBlank said:
That’s not how this works lmao. You are the one making the claim it weakens overtime so you need to prove it. As for a boost in power breaking it, that’s my argument smh. Iko’s growth in power from eating Hikone’s fragments made him too strong for Ichibe’s hax, and thus Ichibe, to seal him.
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Weakens over time because of the statements that nothing last forever in bleach including kido and because of Ywach's example, any evidence of the oposite?

Any evidence nameless Ikko in he present is stronger than in the past, when he might have been defeated and then sealed?


AnonymousBlank said:
I don’t know if you know this but Kubo isn’t the one in charge of Bleach, the publisher (Shueisha) is. He may write for them and be responsible as the primary author but if it is officially licensed and published material with Shueisha’s stamp of approval on it, it is equally canon. Like I said, the manga only takes precedence when the two contradict each other.
Click to expand...

Wrong, official =/= canon.


AnonymousBlank said:
All souls get stronger from adversity and what proof do you have Kenpachi regained his full power? Kid Kenny immediately wounded and overwhelmed her the moment he attacked in the past yet you are claiming he is now equal to Retsu? No. He was constantly nerfing himself in the past to have more fun and prolong the battle so the only thing you can actually say for certain about post-Muken’s strength is that it surpassed Retsu’s and is as much as she could bring forth.
Click to expand...

No, is said the point is for him to regain his old, full power, which he achieved, hence why the next step was Shikai, all his mental blocks are gone and he can hear Nozarashi.

Prove that all characters get exponentially stronger after every beating.

AnonymousBlank said:
You mean the frozen Gerard who wasn’t affected by the ice and is stronger than the one that smacked around Shikai Kenpachi? Peak argument right there.
Click to expand...

The one that half death base Zaraki tripped and just from flling had his helmet cracked, after that same ice negged Hoffnung.

Is very dumb to think that half death base Zaraki is stronger than his Bankai lol


AnonymousBlank said:
The anime … where he won by being physically stronger? The thing you claimed wasn’t the deciding factor for who has the title above? Your own arguments and definitions mean that Kenpachi doesn’t deserve the title even after beating her since it wasn’t him overcoming her skill but just being much stronger … so we can loop right back to Retsu isn’t deserving of the Kenpachi title because she isn’t the strongest or because she isn’t the most skilled.

You are aware that this debate stems from Raven’s CRT to scale Retsu’s AP to/above Yama and Aizen, right? Something you agreed with. Your argument that “Kenpachi” refers to sword skill is just shifting goalposts and headcanon that Retsu was unsurpassed.
Click to expand...

Didn't say more skilled, I said strongest in a sword fight, which he became worthy of by defeating her as told by Isane.

Regardless of anything, Retsu defeated base Zaraki at 90% of his full power.
 
Hasch said:
Any evidence nameless Ikko in he present is stronger than in the past, when he might have been defeated and then sealed?
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Nameless Ikomikidomoe is High 6-A, higher with Third Release, Ikomikidomoe regained his name after absorbing Soul King fragments and became High 4-C

So

Reio Fragments empowered Iko>>>>>>>Third Release Current Nameless Current Iko=Past Ikomikidomoe.

CFYOW Kenpachi is the strongest Shinigami and that includes Bankai Yamamoto and Ichibei. The 6 months gap of Zaraki's power between CFYOW and TYBW is huge. Kenpachi is almost like Ichigo. He is growth rate is abnormal but not as abnormal as Ichigo. Even if Ichibei was there at that very moment he would lose. People use the statements that Ichibei duty is to protect the Soul King. Tokinada goal for Hikone was to replace the Soul King who Yhwach was in that story.
 
Last edited:
Excel616 said:
Nameless Ikomikidomoe is High 6-A, higher with Third Release, Ikomikidomoe regained his name after absorbing Soul King fragments and became High 4-C

So

Reio Fragments empowered Iko>>>>>>>Third Release Current Nameless Iko>>>>Current Nameless Iko=Past Ikomikidomoe.

CFYOW Kenpachi is the strongest Shinigami and that includes Bankai Yamamoto and Ichibei. The 6 months gap of Zaraki's power between CFYOW and TYBW is huge. Kenpachi is almost like Ichigo. He is growth rate is abnormal but not as abnormal as Ichigo. Even if Ichibei was there at that very moment he would lose. People use the statements that Ichibei duty is to protect the Soul King. Tokinada goal for Hikone was to replace the Soul King who Yhwach was in that story.
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The three people who can no diff Hikone and Ikomikidomoe all have one thing in common.
 
They are thinking of Leaving bcs they are being attacked by people on twitter and them dragging their work,its actually pretty sad to see. The Lastest episode on imdb has a 7.4 rating and other ratings have dropped since, Rukia episode from 9.8 to 9.2
Kennz episode a 9.8 to 9.4 and so forth.
 
Excel616 said:
Nameless Ikomikidomoe is High 6-A, higher with Third Release, Ikomikidomoe regained his name after absorbing Soul King fragments and became High 4-C

So

Reio Fragments empowered Iko>>>>>>>Third Release Current Nameless Iko>>>>Current Nameless Iko=Past Ikomikidomoe.

CFYOW Kenpachi is the strongest Shinigami and that includes Bankai Yamamoto and Ichibei. The 6 months gap of Zaraki's power between CFYOW and TYBW is huge. Kenpachi is almost like Ichigo. He is growth rate is abnormal but not as abnormal as Ichigo. Even if Ichibei was there at that very moment he would lose. People use the statements that Ichibei duty is to protect the Soul King. Tokinada goal for Hikone was to replace the Soul King who Yhwach was in that story.
Click to expand...

Why would you assume nameless Ikko is the same as past Ikko when the thing grows in power trough the novel as does Hikone?

Also again there's no evidence or reason for Zaraki to become exponentially stronger between TWBW and CFYOW, or to think Ichibei would lose when the reason the 0 squad didn't move is because they didn't care if Hikone became king.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
God I hate bleach fans, honestly it’s prolly HST fans in general, they all suck
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Arc7Kuroi said:
Like just enjoy the anime 😭 it’s a good adaptation so what if they take an extra week break here and there
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Review bombing is cringe, and so is being a hater just because animation isn't ready exactly when you want it done. The fact that some people think you can get animation, compositing, etc. done as good as it's done in the TYBWA quickly and cheaply is beyond me.
 
as for the twitter stuff, sakai sensei was saying that if they continue they could cause people to leave and lower the quality, for those that are being assholes they are getting clowned by everyone else and the tweet of Sakai sensei is full of support. another on the team simply said "u have the right to complain etc. but from now on if i see i comment like that i will block" (paraphrasing)

the JJK team is going thro hate too, with one of them wondering why they even keep going working on anime in general or the jjk anime.
 
Hasch said:
Also again there's no evidence or reason for Zaraki to become exponentially stronger between TWBW and CFYOW, or to think Ichibei would lose when the reason the 0 squad didn't move is because they didn't care if Hikone became king
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Have you read CFYOW?
 
Excel616 said:
Nameless Ikomikidomoe is High 6-A, higher with Third Release, Ikomikidomoe regained his name after absorbing Soul King fragments and became High 4-C

So

Reio Fragments empowered Iko>>>>>>>Third Release Current Nameless Iko>>>>Current Nameless Iko=Past Ikomikidomoe.
Click to expand...
This is lie. Third Release iko is stated to have power= to if not surpassing barrgan. Third Release iko loss to espada combining their strongest attacks. After being defeated he stated if he had his true name or past power he would have beaten them with ease

Cfyow 3 right before hikone uses resurrection.

"Ikomikidomoe’s gigantic form was at last mostly destroyed and had turned into a statue that could only groan his resentments. “Curse you! If I just had my name! If I could just get back my true name, what I could do to you…!”
Excel616 said:
CFYOW Kenpachi is the strongest Shinigami and that includes Bankai Yamamoto and Ichibei. The 6 months gap of Zaraki's power between CFYOW and TYBW is huge. Kenpachi is almost like Ichigo. He is growth rate is abnormal but not as abnormal as Ichigo. Even if Ichibei was there at that very moment he would lose. People use the statements that Ichibei duty is to protect the Soul King. Tokinada goal for Hikone was to replace the Soul King who Yhwach was in that story.
Click to expand...
You clearly haven't read cfyow. Zaraki is overrated as hell. Base hikone at the time had power= to if not greater than barrgan. This is because hikone and Ikomikidomoe power levels mirror one another. So base supressed kenpachi is about barrgan to starrk level at most in cfyow. Kenpachi's without his eye path is probably a 10× amp since it's comparable to hikones resurrection which is a 10× amp.

Ichibei fought prime true name Ikomikidomoe

"Even a small Fragment of the Reio seemed to have given Ikomikidomoe immense power, to the point that the Manako Osho’s zanpaku-to ability had been weakened and he had apparently regained his true name that had been overwritten"

He regained his true name/power. Now i agree kenpachi is probably stronger than Ichibei with his shikai at least but hikone is not above ichibei as he fought true name Ikomikidomoe
 
Hasch said:
Why would you assume nameless Ikko is the same as past Ikko when the thing grows in power trough the novel as does Hikone?
Click to expand...

Hasch said:
Also again there's no evidence or reason for Zaraki to become exponentially stronger between TWBW and CFYOW, or to think Ichibei would lose when the reason the 0 squad didn't move is because they didn't care if Hikone became king.
Click to expand...
Yup ichibei literally said he didn't care if hikone was soul king and yeah theirs no evidence whatsoever that zaraki is far stronger than he was in the war arc
 
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