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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

“Characters don't always have to destroy a universe to be considered at that level. The statements come from the most reliable and knowledgeable sources who are there just to give exposition about the fight. Even the narrator, the closest being to word of god, confirmed these statements. There is no single throwaway statement in this case, but these statements are reiterated many times which clearly shows the intention of the writer"

Pretty fun that this actually fit perfeclty Yhwach more than Beerus lol.
 
Tyri456 said:
“Characters don't always have to destroy a universe to be considered at that level. The statements come from the most reliable and knowledgeable sources who are there just to give exposition about the fight. Even the narrator, the closest being to word of god, confirmed these statements. There is no single throwaway statement in this case, but these statements are reiterated many times which clearly shows the intention of the writer"
Click to expand...
The irony here is the funniest thing of the day
 
Arc, after writing that section about the raw text from Vol 3:
Barack_Obama_drops_the_mic.gif
 
why when we rely on a statement it will be refused because of the argument "feats >>>> statements" and when we use a feat it will be refused by the argument "outlier"
its either the outlier argument or the feats>>>>statements for bleach lol
 
Arcker123 said:
Outlier is overused, A feat being higher does not make it an outlier
Click to expand...
if you was here during the BSWW (Bleach speed wiki war), or even during the arancar/TYBW arc revision, the outlier argument was brought up countless times just because people don't believe that bleach can reach this level lol I'm surprised that they are asking now for feats when they were ignoring them before as outlier
 
YukaSama4 said:
if you was here during the BSWW (Bleach speed wiki war), or even during the arancar/TYBW arc revision, the outlier argument was brought up countless times just because people don't believe that bleach can reach this level lol I'm surprised that they are asking now for feats when they were ignoring them before as outlier
Click to expand...
Too high for my headcanon so unusable
 
Arcker123 said:
Extrapolating on this, the only time a feat should be labeled "outlier" is if it has contradictions
Click to expand...
So much this. People apparently don't know what an outlier is.

From what I have seen, people seem to think the strength displayed in the previous arcs are what makes something an outlier or not, despite that not being how that works.

If new feats are done after training, attaining a new state of existence or transformation, and don't have any inconsistencies, then the size of the difference doesn't matter. The legitimacy of the feat does.

And that's how things are done in other franchises too. I used a Dragon Ball reference, but I could have also mentioned DMC and Bayonetta which have an equal, if not a greater difference between the tiers between a large jump to universal level.

Like, look at DMC's reasonings for being universal (Note: I am NOT arguing this feat isn't legit, it seems very legit).

"Attack Potency: Universe level (The weakening of his seal, even before he was fully revived, was causing the Demon World and the Human World to fuse together and reverting the universe to its original state where the two worlds were once one single dimension)"

A being performing the feat of fusing multiple worlds, described as universes, together to revert creation to its original state through his power, but was stopped before he could complete the task by the protagonist. All supported by countless character or guide statements.

Sound familiar? Why are statements determining this feat being done is legit for 3-A, but Yhwach's isn't? I just don't get it.

And Dante alters between Wall level to Mountain level before this. The gap is bigger than Yhwach's and Ichigo's.


I am so tired of this double standard. Why is this not consistent whatsoever?
 
Last edited:
Will the staff point out what they agree or disagree with when they vote? need to know if they actually read and understood the the argument not just voting out of bias.
 
Warren_Valion said:
A being performing the feat of fusing multiple worlds, described as universes, together to revert creation to its original state. All supported by character or guide statements.

Sound familiar? Why are statements determining this feat being done is legit for 3-A, but Yhwach's isn't? I just don't get it.

And Dante alters between Wall level to Mountain level before this. The gap is bigger than Yhwach's and Ichigo's.
Click to expand...
Arguing the gap is "too high" is just pointless incredulity, at what point does a feat/gap become "too high"
 
And let’s be honest here. Many fictional verses here are normally scrutinized so much that they have to fight tooth and nail, go every step of the mile, and fight up-hill battles, just to climb one tier. I won’t name specific examples, but the people reading this know the verses im talking about. Some of the people who have left our site unfortunately give complaints about this very thing. A lot of the time, we make our standards tight and make some of these series fight harder battles to get upgrades the more they try shooting for higher tiers. But that seems to only be half-heartedly applied. Here we are faced with one of the biggest tier climbs to be seen on this site in a while, and our standards should allow statements by itself to be granted this tier climb? An upgrade that we normally would never accept without being far more cautious? Giving far more expectations? Giving far more requirements? Far more skepticism? We all need to be asking ourselves that. We need to be asking if our standards can turn a cheek, and make exceptions like this. We need to ask ourselves, point blank, if this evidence is still enough for an upgrade to this extent before giving the final verdict.

And here we are, this is the famous appellative argument for trying to refuse the scale hahah, you can't help but laugh reading this
 
USklaverei said:
And let’s be honest here. Many fictional verses here are normally scrutinized so much that they have to fight tooth and nail, go every step of the mile, and fight up-hill battles, just to climb one tier. I won’t name specific examples, but the people reading this know the verses im talking about. Some of the people who have left our site unfortunately give complaints about this very thing. A lot of the time, we make our standards tight and make some of these series fight harder battles to get upgrades the more they try shooting for higher tiers. But that seems to only be half-heartedly applied. Here we are faced with one of the biggest tier climbs to be seen on this site in a while, and our standards should allow statements by itself to be granted this tier climb? An upgrade that we normally would never accept without being far more cautious? Giving far more expectations? Giving far more requirements? Far more skepticism? We all need to be asking ourselves that. We need to be asking if our standards can turn a cheek, and make exceptions like this. We need to ask ourselves, point blank, if this evidence is still enough for an upgrade to this extent before giving the final verdict.

And here we are, this is the famous appellative argument for trying to refuse the scale hahah, you can't help but laugh reading this
Click to expand...
Was this on the thread "this wiki confuses me"
 
USklaverei said:
And let’s be honest here. Many fictional verses here are normally scrutinized so much that they have to fight tooth and nail, go every step of the mile, and fight up-hill battles, just to climb one tier. I won’t name specific examples, but the people reading this know the verses im talking about. Some of the people who have left our site unfortunately give complaints about this very thing. A lot of the time, we make our standards tight and make some of these series fight harder battles to get upgrades the more they try shooting for higher tiers. But that seems to only be half-heartedly applied. Here we are faced with one of the biggest tier climbs to be seen on this site in a while, and our standards should allow statements by itself to be granted this tier climb? An upgrade that we normally would never accept without being far more cautious? Giving far more expectations? Giving far more requirements? Far more skepticism? We all need to be asking ourselves that. We need to be asking if our standards can turn a cheek, and make exceptions like this. We need to ask ourselves, point blank, if this evidence is still enough for an upgrade to this extent before giving the final verdict.

And here we are, this is the famous appellative argument for trying to refuse the scale hahah, you can't help but laugh reading this
Click to expand...
Is this honestly asserting bleach was given special treatment
 
USklaverei said:
And let’s be honest here. Many fictional verses here are normally scrutinized so much that they have to fight tooth and nail, go every step of the mile, and fight up-hill battles, just to climb one tier. I won’t name specific examples, but the people reading this know the verses im talking about. Some of the people who have left our site unfortunately give complaints about this very thing. A lot of the time, we make our standards tight and make some of these series fight harder battles to get upgrades the more they try shooting for higher tiers. But that seems to only be half-heartedly applied. Here we are faced with one of the biggest tier climbs to be seen on this site in a while, and our standards should allow statements by itself to be granted this tier climb? An upgrade that we normally would never accept without being far more cautious? Giving far more expectations? Giving far more requirements? Far more skepticism? We all need to be asking ourselves that. We need to be asking if our standards can turn a cheek, and make exceptions like this. We need to ask ourselves, point blank, if this evidence is still enough for an upgrade to this extent before giving the final verdict.

And here we are, this is the famous appellative argument for trying to refuse the scale hahah, you can't help but laugh reading this
Click to expand...
I mean it's human nature to see something non-intuitive and be skeptical, so I can't exactly blame this line of thinking. However, on the flip side not everything is or has to be intuitive, and that really is an appeal to incredulity.

Arcker123 said:
Is this honestly asserting bleach was given special treatment
Click to expand...
I am Bleach's special treatment here 👀
 
AKUTO123 said:
Does anyone trust the staff to make the right decision? 🤔
Click to expand...
I mean you don't have to use vsbw scaling, tbf I don't think there is a right decision, personally I think you can realistically argue anywhere from Planetary to Low-Complex Multi, I just find the most reasonable tiering to be Uni to Low-Multi.
 
USklaverei said:
And let’s be honest here. Many fictional verses here are normally scrutinized so much that they have to fight tooth and nail, go every step of the mile, and fight up-hill battles, just to climb one tier. I won’t name specific examples, but the people reading this know the verses im talking about. Some of the people who have left our site unfortunately give complaints about this very thing. A lot of the time, we make our standards tight and make some of these series fight harder battles to get upgrades the more they try shooting for higher tiers. But that seems to only be half-heartedly applied. Here we are faced with one of the biggest tier climbs to be seen on this site in a while, and our standards should allow statements by itself to be granted this tier climb? An upgrade that we normally would never accept without being far more cautious? Giving far more expectations? Giving far more requirements? Far more skepticism? We all need to be asking ourselves that. We need to be asking if our standards can turn a cheek, and make exceptions like this. We need to ask ourselves, point blank, if this evidence is still enough for an upgrade to this extent before giving the final verdict.

And here we are, this is the famous appellative argument for trying to refuse the scale hahah, you can't help but laugh reading this
Click to expand...
This is the thing I hated more as an argument (And I hated a lot of wrong stuff used as an arguemnt in that thread), this is straight up disohensty and appelaing to disbelief, also discredit multiple statements despite being from the mangaka itself multiple times and completely ignoring the author intent of Yhwach being an ultimate threat that would have rewritten the cosmos.
 
Yes, this is literally him setting aside the arguments and trying to appeal for it to be accepted.
It looks like those boys at school who, when they don't like a person, start to make a speech to try to take away his credibility.
 
Warren_Valion said:
So much this. People apparently don't know what an outlier is.

From what I have seen, people seem to think the strength displayed in the previous arcs are what makes something an outlier or not, despite that not being how that works.

If new feats are done after training, attaining a new state of existence or transformation, and don't have any inconsistencies, then the size of the difference doesn't matter. The legitimacy of the feat does.

And that's how things are done in other franchises too. I used a Dragon Ball reference, but I could have also mentioned DMC and Bayonetta which have an equal, if not a greater difference between the tiers between a large jump to universal level.

Like, look at DMC's reasonings for being universal (Note: I am NOT arguing this feat isn't legit, it seems very legit).

"Attack Potency: Universe level (The weakening of his seal, even before he was fully revived, was causing the Demon World and the Human World to fuse together and reverting the universe to its original state where the two worlds were once one single dimension)"

A being performing the feat of fusing multiple worlds, described as universes, together to revert creation to its original state. All supported by character or guide statements.

Sound familiar? Why are statements determining this feat being done is legit for 3-A, but Yhwach's isn't? I just don't get it.

And Dante alters between Wall level to Mountain level before this. The gap is bigger than Yhwach's and Ichigo's.


I am so tired of this double standard. Why is this not consistent whatsoever?
Click to expand...
I thought this was Bleach lol, is this true? it is exaclty same thing.
 
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