- 4,444
- 4,508
Whatever you say.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion
- Thread starter Zoro21043
- Start date
Arcker123
He/Him- 8,078
- 6,167
Yhwach lifting the wandenreich was calced at low 5-B
Arcker123
He/Him- 8,078
- 6,167
The soul cycle argument is headcanon and should be disregarded as such. Arc compiled several scans stating reio's reiryuoku stabilizes the realms with no mention of soul cycle (Also wasn't soul king a borderline vegetable, having trouble seeing why he could manipulate infinite souls if he cant even move)
- 8,427
- 3,144
I disagree, but I do not want to debate this, personally. But I am curious.
Why does the stabilization feat matter when the main feat in question is Yhwach's destruction of the three realms?
In my response, I specified that if the destruction of what is sustained has to be instant to qualify, which I have my problems with but whatever, then fine, disqualify the Soul King's feat, but also disqualify Michael's feat too.
That the main argument is Yhwach's shit, not Reio's.
- 8,159
- 2,185
That DMC feat description is literally Yhwach’s feat. If Bleach loses their rating then they should lose it too seeing as that feat was never completed and wasn’t instant.
- 8,159
- 2,185
They clearly didn’t read Arcs post. Literally debunks the logic it was done with Almighty via the raws... So in other words literally their raw energy that is used to scale their other stats.
- 601
- 190
I would also like to reiterate about Duedate's question is that, once again, the Soul Cycle has nothing to do with what the Soul's King's stabilizes, it is a completely different factor that also affects the cosmology but is not controlled by SK, again the ones who's literal main purpose is to keep the Soul Cycle in check are the Shinigami themselves, the SK doesn't do anything with it.
Soul King's one purpose is to stabilize the realms and prevent their natural collpase without him, he is not meant to prevent the natural collpase + the soul cycle going out of balance simultaneously.
Soul King's one purpose is to stabilize the realms and prevent their natural collpase without him, he is not meant to prevent the natural collpase + the soul cycle going out of balance simultaneously.
Arcker123
He/Him- 8,078
- 6,167
No offense to him but if he is allowed to vote, why can't all of us
- 4,444
- 4,508
Mainly because both have been put into question over the course of the entire thread, even in all the final post, Soul King's stabilization is still brought up so I figured it was still considered important.
- 4,444
- 4,508
Staff only threads are always open to retired staff.
- 6,243
- 2,668
i mean did u expected them to read their responses? at most i say they read a lil and if at all since imo they already have their decision made before they read it
- 8,159
- 2,185
Why is it still being argued that this doesn’t scale to their stats. One is even asking for quotes of them saying their attacks use more power than passively holding the worlds.
Yhwach’s dead body has enough energy to hold the world forever. Why is this being argued this energy is most of his power. It’s blowing my mind right now.
Yhwach’s dead body has enough energy to hold the world forever. Why is this being argued this energy is most of his power. It’s blowing my mind right now.
- 18,861
- 27,528
Let's steel man the souls thing real quick.
If an imbalance of souls can collapse the universe, that would logically mean that the imbalance of souls is likely 3-A, it does not mean that causing an imbalance is 3-A, just once you get it imbalanced the cycle becomes a destructive 3-A torrent (if I hold cut the ropes holding a bridge, I scale to the ropes, not the collapse of the bridge).
So the Quincies pose a threat to the ropes of this bridge.
Meanwhile the Reio controls the entire bridge in this analogy in which I steel man. So if Reio can control an entire cycle that is 3-A what's the difference then? Why does it matter if he prevents destruction via hugging the cycle or the realms, if both can destroy the universe then any way you cut it Reio is holding back universal destructive power. Breaking the balance would just be like sticking your foot out and tripping Reio so he drops it. Creating an imbalance doesn't discredit anything.
And again idk why it's the he either stabilizes one or the other, or it's stabilizing both inherently makes the feat less impressive. Like it doesn't matter. Let's say I have 1 million souls, where they in total can destroy the universe, I can either destroy the souls one at a time (what the Quincies were doing not inherently anything), or control the entirety of them (what is being argued Reio does). Would controlling and maintaining 100% of a universal destructive energy not be universal still?
Idk if this addresses Duedate's point as I could be misinterpreting his point entirely. But then again as everyone said, it doesn't matter what Reio is we still have Yhwach's statements supported by Prime Reio's feat.
"several of the non-valuable points being repeated in the process that were already discussed and addressed" ~akm
Yessir, you're right, that's on me, I should've only responded to the points you deem important and unconcluded, I should've been able to read your mind and know which points they were, that's all me, my apologies.
Sarcasm aside, it has been fun strengthening my Bleach debating skills and knowledge, and as many of y'all have you can always contact me on discord to discuss or debate Bleach scaling.
Who knows maybe I'll make a universal Bleach CRT down the line (also working on some Naruto god tier stuff that I might shoot the ***** with), I do have new and better arguments, but that's for a later time.
They refused to entertain the teachings of Jesus because he spoke a feared truth. I never expected it to get read in it's entirety but composed it nonetheless, the majority of people (not majority of staff) agree with me because of it, so I think on some level it's useful.
For all curious I think DDM summarized staff opinion well "opposition makes good points but I still don't see it scaling to physicals unless directly told so". I think this won't be far off from the final verdict.
It appears I activated the trap card of "after reading these I agree with Kukui FRA" my life points are dropping to 0.
I'll take my small W of having the most liked post on the thread as of the last time I viewed it tho
I still think in a neutral environment (where staff opinion isn't inherently > user opinion) I can out debate any staff member on Bleach tho, my ego is undamaged lmao.
If an imbalance of souls can collapse the universe, that would logically mean that the imbalance of souls is likely 3-A, it does not mean that causing an imbalance is 3-A, just once you get it imbalanced the cycle becomes a destructive 3-A torrent (if I hold cut the ropes holding a bridge, I scale to the ropes, not the collapse of the bridge).
So the Quincies pose a threat to the ropes of this bridge.
Meanwhile the Reio controls the entire bridge in this analogy in which I steel man. So if Reio can control an entire cycle that is 3-A what's the difference then? Why does it matter if he prevents destruction via hugging the cycle or the realms, if both can destroy the universe then any way you cut it Reio is holding back universal destructive power. Breaking the balance would just be like sticking your foot out and tripping Reio so he drops it. Creating an imbalance doesn't discredit anything.
And again idk why it's the he either stabilizes one or the other, or it's stabilizing both inherently makes the feat less impressive. Like it doesn't matter. Let's say I have 1 million souls, where they in total can destroy the universe, I can either destroy the souls one at a time (what the Quincies were doing not inherently anything), or control the entirety of them (what is being argued Reio does). Would controlling and maintaining 100% of a universal destructive energy not be universal still?
Idk if this addresses Duedate's point as I could be misinterpreting his point entirely. But then again as everyone said, it doesn't matter what Reio is we still have Yhwach's statements supported by Prime Reio's feat.
"several of the non-valuable points being repeated in the process that were already discussed and addressed" ~akm
Yessir, you're right, that's on me, I should've only responded to the points you deem important and unconcluded, I should've been able to read your mind and know which points they were, that's all me, my apologies.
Sarcasm aside, it has been fun strengthening my Bleach debating skills and knowledge, and as many of y'all have you can always contact me on discord to discuss or debate Bleach scaling.
Who knows maybe I'll make a universal Bleach CRT down the line (also working on some Naruto god tier stuff that I might shoot the ***** with), I do have new and better arguments, but that's for a later time.
If you're talking about debunking the notion that Yhwach doesn't scale to destruction feats, I think my doc debunks that notion.
You don't when it's stated you stabilize with raw power and never stated via hax.
Almost like Kenpachi implies that your passive feats <<< your stats.
For all curious I think DDM summarized staff opinion well "opposition makes good points but I still don't see it scaling to physicals unless directly told so". I think this won't be far off from the final verdict.
It appears I activated the trap card of "after reading these I agree with Kukui FRA" my life points are dropping to 0.
I'll take my small W of having the most liked post on the thread as of the last time I viewed it tho
Arcker123
He/Him- 8,078
- 6,167
- 8,159
- 2,185
They still think Stabilization is the main feat for anyone besides weakened SK.
Prime gets his rating from creating everything with his nigh-omnipotent power, Weakened for stabilizing, and Yhwach was going to merge the worlds into 1 just like Mundus.
Prime gets his rating from creating everything with his nigh-omnipotent power, Weakened for stabilizing, and Yhwach was going to merge the worlds into 1 just like Mundus.
- 18,861
- 27,528
It's aight the real ones know what's up, read my docs, come to me with questions or to debate me on it, it attracts the audience I want it to.
Arcker123
He/Him- 8,078
- 6,167
I sorta get the argument about whataboutism but why should some verses be held to a higher standards than others, as warren stated, Goku is not only 3-A but several hundreds of times above baseline off of statements, Why can't bleach, with just as many statements be 3-A
- 8,427
- 3,144
The feat I linked wasn't Mundus', it was Agrosax.
Mundus' feat was only considered 3-A via WoG, but someone found tweets of the creator making trolley posts to power scalers asking these questions, so the legitimacy was revoked.
- 8,159
- 2,185
My mistake.
Still they’re saying they don’t agree with it scaling to stats. Did they forget the entire reason Kukui even argued it in in his posts? He argued The Almighty had some sort of separate tiering using the novel and the manga.
Arc literally debunks this with the Japanese raws that state Reio did it with his literal “Almighty” power. He even shows the difference between Kanji involving the use of “Almighty”. They’re still going on about how it doesn’t scale when the core of that argument was debunked.
One of them even says stabilization rating would be on Ichigo’s profile as well. Which literally makes 0 sense whatsoever seeding as he’s never stabilized anything and the 2nd point within the document even says so.
Still they’re saying they don’t agree with it scaling to stats. Did they forget the entire reason Kukui even argued it in in his posts? He argued The Almighty had some sort of separate tiering using the novel and the manga.
Arc literally debunks this with the Japanese raws that state Reio did it with his literal “Almighty” power. He even shows the difference between Kanji involving the use of “Almighty”. They’re still going on about how it doesn’t scale when the core of that argument was debunked.
One of them even says stabilization rating would be on Ichigo’s profile as well. Which literally makes 0 sense whatsoever seeding as he’s never stabilized anything and the 2nd point within the document even says so.
Last edited:
- 287
- 283
"PrOvE YhWach's DeAd BoDy CaNt UsE tHe AlMiGhty"
Arcker123
He/Him- 8,078
- 6,167
Every argument that "it doesn't scale" can be debunked by arc's doc so much it hurts
- 16,998
- 12,134
He isn't dead but he isn't alive either. Actually Yhwach was supposed to get Type 5 Immortality for that very reason a few years back.
- 267
- 147
Not going to agree or disagree with this entire proposal of downgrades/upgrades, but if you created an entire page explaining how certain kinds of feats are going to be evaluated, then you should not be evaluating feats for a certain verse on a case-by-case basis.
You should check that feat to see if it meets (or matches) the criteria for the guideline that is written for a specific kind of feat relative to other similar feats from different verses.
You should check that feat to see if it meets (or matches) the criteria for the guideline that is written for a specific kind of feat relative to other similar feats from different verses.
- 8,159
- 2,185
It’s literally right there clear as day as to why it scales.
Arcker123
He/Him- 8,078
- 6,167
This on so many levels, bleach is being held to ridiculously high standards no other verse is applied to
- 95
- 26
"And he would still need the pool of energy to stabilize everything"
Is it that hard to see sk, Yhwach possesses an endless amount of energy that they can use attacks of that caliber along with maintaining the cosmos simultaneously which they do by existing? Like lol
Is it that hard to see sk, Yhwach possesses an endless amount of energy that they can use attacks of that caliber along with maintaining the cosmos simultaneously which they do by existing? Like lol
- 267
- 147
I was about to mention that infamous Star Wars planet level feat (Infant of Shaa), and whether containing an artifact that was about to go off could also be a stabilization feat, since you are merely defusing the artifact before it went off instead of containing the explosion after the artifact actually exploded.
Arcker123
He/Him- 8,078
- 6,167
Goku can be several hundreds of times baseline universal off of statements but bleach can’t be universal with just as many statements
