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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

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That was a good party. I wonder who was the lucky guy.
 
Joking aside, the Ginjo and Tsuki vs Candice fight, and Ginjo vs Tokinada fight, both contradicts the FB scaling as Byakuya and Tokinada are still considered far below base Aizen
 
Joking aside, the Ginjo and Tsuki vs Candice fight, and Ginjo vs Tokinada fight, both contradicts the FB scaling as Byakuya and Tokinada are still considered far below base Aizen
Do you have a scan where they mentioned base Aizen back from Karakura Town and not current Aizen?
 
Do you have a scan where they mentioned base Aizen back from Karakura Town and not current Aizen?
Yeah,
“Tokinada’s spiritual pressure is a far cry from Aizen’s. That’s why I think there must be a limit to his Complete Hypnosis abilities… But even without that power, he’s still a formidable opponent.”
Kyoraku never questioned base Aizen’s KS and never thought that it would have a limit, actually, he only faced it once so he is referring to Karakura time.

Also,
"Tokinada’s spiritual pressure was nowhere near Aizen’s level, and because of that, it was possible for the Shikai transformation itself to be sealed through incredibly strong spiritual pressure."

Unohana said that because of Aizen’s KS, no one in the Gotei or WoTL could defeat Aizen, that would include Yama who has a higher Reiatsu than base Aizen, Kumamura at the beginning of the Karakura fight, said that because of Aizen’s ability, we should defeat his allies and then take our time fighting with him and Yama agreed by proceeding to use his Shikai to seal Aizen with his flames and said that even Aizen won't be able to get out of there for a good period of time.
Even Kisuke who had 100 hundreds of years to prepare didn't question Aizen’s KS, Gin spent many years searching for weakness and the only weakness he found was to put his hand on the tip of KS before Aizen releases it.
So it's clear as the sun that they are talking about base Aizen
 
Yeah,
“Tokinada’s spiritual pressure is a far cry from Aizen’s. That’s why I think there must be a limit to his Complete Hypnosis abilities… But even without that power, he’s still a formidable opponent.”
Kyoraku never questioned base Aizen’s KS and never thought that it would have a limit, actually, he only faced it once so he is referring to Karakura time.
He could be referring to how Aizen has more Reiatsu than Tokinada.
Also,
"Tokinada’s spiritual pressure was nowhere near Aizen’s level, and because of that, it was possible for the Shikai transformation itself to be sealed through incredibly strong spiritual pressure."
This also applies to current Aizen’s level. Shunsui and the others saw his new level of power.
Unohana said that because of Aizen’s KS, no one in the Gotei or WoTL could defeat Aizen, that would include Yama who has a higher Reiatsu than base Aizen, Kumamura at the beginning of the Karakura fight, said that because of Aizen’s ability, we should defeat his allies and then take our time fighting with him and Yama agreed by proceeding to use his Shikai to seal Aizen with his flames and said that even Aizen won't be able to get out of there for a good period of time.
?
Even Kisuke who had 100 hundreds of years to prepare didn't question Aizen’s KS, Gin spent many years searching for weakness and the only weakness he found was to put his hand on the tip of KS before Aizen releases it.
So it's clear as the sun that they are talking about base Aizen
This particular part is referring to the past events. I don’t see the same with the others statements.
 
He could be referring to how Aizen has more Reiatsu than Tokinada.
This also applies to current Aizen’s level. Shunsui and the others saw his new level of power.
No, it doesn't talk about the current Aizen as I already proved, if it's talking about the current Aizen why didn't Shunsui question KS at the time of Karakura?
"Tokinada’s spiritual pressure was nowhere near Aizen’s level, and because of that, it was possible for the Shikai transformation itself to be sealed through incredibly strong spiritual pressure."
I'm going to bring the whole context,
"Kyoka Suigetsu was a zanpaku-to of absolute superior power once it was invoked. However, it had a weakness as a result of that. If the target were to touch the blade before it was invoked, then Complete Hypnosis could not be implemented.
Had Tokinada been Aizen, he might have been able to fulfill the conditions of having those around him see the Shikai the moment it was invoked. However, now that someone other than Aizen was using the blade, another weakness was involved. Tokinada’s spiritual pressure was nowhere near Aizen’s level, and because of that, it was possible for the shikai transformation itself to be sealed through incredibly strong spiritual pressure."

KS was a Zanpakuto of absolute superior power, it had only one weakness, it's talking about the past, not the current Aizen, but now since someone who is weaker than that Aizen is using it, and he has a far weaker Reiatsu, another weakness has appeared.
Unohana said that because of Aizen’s KS, no one in the Gotei or WoTL could defeat Aizen, that would include Yama who has a higher Reiatsu than base Aizen, Kumamura at the beginning of the Karakura fight, said that because of Aizen’s ability, we should defeat his allies and then take our time fighting with him and Yama agreed by proceeding to use his Shikai to seal Aizen with his flames and said that even Aizen won't be able to get out of there for a good period of time.
Even Kisuke who had 100 hundreds of years to prepare didn't question Aizen’s KS, Gin spent many years searching for weakness and the only weakness he found was to put his hand on the tip of KS before Aizen releases it.
This passage here proves that all characters didn't dare to question base Aizen’s KS, while Kyoraku did question Toki’s, with all this context from Kamakura time supported by,
This particular part is referring to the past events. I don’t see the same with the others statements.
the fact that even Gin and Kisuke were spending years to prepare for Aizen, actually Gin spent many years just to find one weakness in KS that base Aizen uses, but the end it only had one weakness, the other weakness was born when Tokinada’s KS was questioned by Kyoraku, who didn't even dare to do the same with base Aizen, idk why are you even arguing against it, its clear that base Aizen never had that weakness
 
Yeah,
“Tokinada’s spiritual pressure is a far cry from Aizen’s. That’s why I think there must be a limit to his Complete Hypnosis abilities… But even without that power, he’s still a formidable opponent.”
Kyoraku never questioned base Aizen’s KS and never thought that it would have a limit, actually, he only faced it once so he is referring to Karakura time.
This statement is made on page 175, on page 154 it is found out that it works in both ways so if he is weaker than them the ability is weaker. It is a simple conclusion that does not insinuate fkt.
Even more so this is presuming tokinada and aizen are the same as combatants, aizens zanpacto doesn't have a mechanic making it weaker if he is weaker than the person

The question id like to ask you is why would his hax be from a past aizen? Since the only time he should even have the sword to be able to copy it is after fkt, it's not implied to have a time related aspect so?

rest is basically the same as what apple said
 
This statement is made on page 175, on page 154 it is found out that it works in both ways so if he is weaker than them the ability is weaker. It is a simple conclusion that does not insinuate fkt.
It does, the context of the story does prove that FKT Aizen didn't have that weakness.
Even more so this is presuming tokinada and aizen are the same as combatants, aizens zanpacto doesn't have a mechanic making it weaker if he is weaker than the person
headcanon, it's stated that the reason is that Tokinada had a far weaker Reiatsu, not just because his name isn't Aizen.
The question id like to ask you is why would his hax be from a past aizen? Since the only time he should even have the sword to be able to copy it is after fkt, it's not implied to have a time related aspect so?
Sure, I can answer this easily,
“Come to think of it, according to Aura, that woman who’s in league with him, he was supposedly watching the whole battle in the fake Karakura Town.”
He was watching the whole battle in Karakura town.
rest is basically the same as what apple said
Which I debunked.
 
No, it doesn't talk about the current Aizen as I already proved, if it's talking about the current Aizen why didn't Shunsui question KS at the time of Karakura?
You didn’t post the part where Karakura Town was mentioned in context to KS. The other sentence is separate.
I'm going to bring the whole context,
"Kyoka Suigetsu was a zanpaku-to of absolute superior power once it was invoked. However, it had a weakness as a result of that. If the target were to touch the blade before it was invoked, then Complete Hypnosis could not be implemented.
This happened in the past Arc, and is only talking about KS only weakness known to the group.
Had Tokinada been Aizen, he might have been able to fulfill the conditions of having those around him see the Shikai the moment it was invoked.
This is Shunsui talking about how he knows KS works.
However, now that someone other than Aizen was using the blade, another weakness was involved.
This is talking about Tokinada unlocking a second weakness.
Tokinada’s spiritual pressure was nowhere near Aizen’s level, and because of that, it was possible for the shikai transformation itself to be sealed through incredibly strong spiritual pressure."
This doesn’t specify base Aizen as such form doesn’t exist. Base Aizen is a term we fans made up. So logically he would be talking about current Aizen unless stated otherwise.
KS was a Zanpakuto of absolute superior power, it had only one weakness, it's talking about the past, not the current Aizen, but now since someone who is weaker than that Aizen is using it, and he has a far weaker Reiatsu, another weakness has appeared.
Yes.
This passage here proves that all characters didn't dare to question base Aizen’s KS, while Kyoraku did question Toki’s, with all this context from Kamakura time supported by,
KS has not changed. The current difference is that it fused with Aizen’s body.
the fact that even Gin and Kisuke were spending years to prepare for Aizen, actually Gin spent many years just to find one weakness in KS that base Aizen uses, but the end it only had one weakness, the other weakness was born when Tokinada’s KS was questioned by Kyoraku, who didn't even dare to do the same with base Aizen, idk why are you even arguing against it, its clear that base Aizen never had that weakness
Not really.
 
It does, the context of the story does prove that FKT Aizen didn't have that weakness.
Are you saying aizen does not have a weakness that allows people to seal his zanpactos activation, if that is what youre saying yes, your correct. The reason kyoka has that weakness NOW is because tok is using it and is weaker than aizen. This does not mean fkt aizen > tok, this mean cfyow aizen > tok
headcanon, it's stated that the reason is that Tokinada had a far weaker Reiatsu, not just because his name isn't Aizen.
No, it's not? Aizen factually does not have such an ability, which in context is why he suspects as much. Since we literally see him change his thought process. He even suggests current GOD aizen could be involved so no.
“Come to think of it, according to Aura, that woman who’s in league with him, he was supposedly watching the whole battle in the fake Karakura Town.”
He was watching the whole battle in Karakura town.
That didnt answer my question, the only time to my knowledge he should be in possession of the sword is post fkt, so why would it be the past and not the current?
KS was a Zanpakuto of absolute superior power, it had only one weakness, it's talking about the past, not the current Aizen, but now since someone who is weaker than that Aizen is using it, and he has a far weaker Reiatsu, another weakness has appeared.

This passage here proves that all characters didn't dare to question base Aizen’s KS, while Kyoraku did question Toki’s, with all this context from Kamakura time supported by,
This literally only means post tybw, they are in cfyow, kyoka did not have this weakness until cfyow when tok copied it. Again, this does not mean fkt, ive already addressed the idea of people question ks.
 
You didn’t post the part where Karakura Town was mentioned in context to KS. The other sentence is separate.
Wrong, Kumamura's statement was there in Karakura when they were going to fight Aizen, same as Unohana’s, other statements mean Aizen pre-Karakura fight didn't have that weakness which also means he was above Tokinada.
This happened in the past Arc, and is only talking about KS only weakness known to the group.
Oh, so you are saying that all the soul reapers + Kisuke and others didn't know that Aizen had that extra weakness but you suddenly did only because you follow the FB scaling? come on man don't waste my time with this weak response
This is Shunsui talking about how he knows KS works.
I wasn't even talking at that part, I just brought the whole context, doesn't mean every single word there is relevant bro lol
This is talking about Tokinada unlocking a second weakness.
Thank you, so that weakness was unlocked by Tokinada because he has a weaker Reiatsu, Aizen never had that weakness.
This doesn’t specify base Aizen as such form doesn’t exist. Base Aizen is a term we fans made up. So logically he would be talking about current Aizen unless stated otherwise.
Amazing info bruh, that's why I'm using the context because context is proving that Aizen never had that weakness at all in the whole show.
Good, so it doesn't talk about the current Aizen.
KS has not changed. The current difference is that it fused with Aizen’s body.
...how is that relevant to the topic at all?
Not really.
very much its.
Are you saying aizen does not have a weakness that allows people to seal his zanpactos activation, if that is what youre saying yes, your correct. The reason kyoka has that weakness NOW is because tok is using it and is weaker than aizen. This does not mean fkt aizen > tok, this mean cfyow aizen > tok
No, Aizen never had that weakness because he has a higher Reiatsu, meaning even base Aizen is > Toki since he didn't have it
No, it's not? Aizen factually does not have such an ability, which in context is why he suspects as much. Since we literally see him change his thought process. He even suggests current GOD aizen could be involved so no.
Huh? you are saying that it's not because of Reiatsu?
"Tokinada’s spiritual pressure was nowhere near Aizen’s level, and because of that, it was possible for the shikai transformation itself to be sealed through incredibly strong spiritual pressure."

Funny how you guys are ready to ignore many statements and context just to get your scaling accepted.
the statement says because of (that) ~> his reiatsu being nowhere near Aizen’s level it could be sealed, not because his name isnt Aizen.
That didnt answer my question, the only time to my knowledge he should be in possession of the sword is post fkt, so why would it be the past and not the current?
It did answer your question, let me explain how:
“Tokinada’s spiritual pressure is a far cry from Aizen’s. That’s why I think there must be a limit to his Complete Hypnosis abilities… But even without that power, he’s still a formidable opponent.”
“Yes, I can’t believe he has the ability to copy others’ zanpaku-to…” Nanao said, as Hisagi recalled Tokinada’s face with irritation. “We can’t assume that he can use every ability. He is the head of the Visual Department. It’s possible he can only use abilities he has witnessed himself.”
“Come to think of it, according to Aura, that woman who’s in league with him, he was supposedly watching the whole battle in the fake Karakura Town.”
“It seems he is well prepared then. The Visual Department was the first to report on Rukia and Ichigo too.

So he can use the abilities that he witnessed himself ~> then they say he was in Karakura so that explains how he could use all those abilities.
This literally only means post tybw, they are in cfyow, kyoka did not have this weakness until cfyow when tok copied it. Again, this does not mean fkt, ive already addressed the idea of people question ks.
You didn't lmao.
 
@YukaSama4 let me get this right. The current argument is that Tokinada had less reiatsu than Base Aizen, therefore, Tokinada’s KS unlocked a new weakness.

Cool. Cool. Cool.

Let me explain why this doesn’t work and brings a problem in the scaling.

Base Aizen had x2 Reiatsu of a captain, and Unonaha said the same of Bankai Ichigo after the Ulquiorra fight and he could sense transcendent Aizen’s Reiatsu without entering Dangai training at this stage.

Fullbring Arc, we have statements of Ichigo regaining the powers he once had.

His Fullbring Shikai and Bankai are then empowered from having everyone’s Reiatsu given to Ichigo.

Using this scaling Hueco Mundo Arc Bankai Ichigo is stronger than everyone in the fullbring arc and every form of Ichigo until he unlocks Shin Shikai dual blades.

Makes no sense, unless you want to argue Ulquiorra Segunda Etapa was the strongest Arrancar and could solo people like EOS Byakuya, Hitsugaya and Kenpachi.
 
No, Aizen never had that weakness because he has a higher Reiatsu, meaning even base Aizen is > Toki since he didn't have it
Dude kyoka doesn’t have a Machenic making it weaker by extension of another. That’s specifically the draw back for tokinada.
Huh? you are saying that it's not because of Reiatsu?
"Tokinada’s spiritual pressure was nowhere near Aizen’s level, and because of that, it was possible for the shikai transformation itself to be sealed through incredibly strong spiritual pressure."

Funny how you guys are ready to ignore many statements and context just to get your scaling accepted.
the statement says because of (that) ~> his reiatsu being nowhere near Aizen’s level it could be sealed, not because his name isnt Aizen.
That is not my argument idk what you aren’t getting.
Shunsui thinks there is a weakness because TOKS ability makes the ability weaker if he is weaker that is the prerequisite
And we aren’t ignoring anything your literally ignoring the lost agent arc.
So he can use the abilities that he witnessed himself ~> then they say he was in Karakura so that explains how he could use all those abilities.
No, nano right before says I can’t believe he can copy abilities and they then say he can’t have every.
The conversation then shifts to amount by saying fkt which had most of the captains
Shunsui even said “even without that power he’s a formidable opponent”
tok can use abilities he’s seen, which is why shunsui says he’s well prepared.
They are quite literally, possibly excluding fkt aizen since shunsui says “even without”
You didn't lmao.
Even more so this is presuming tokinada and aizen are the same as combatants, aizens zanpacto doesn't have a mechanic making it weaker
Especially since this is demonstrated to shunsui with Yama
 
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Base Aizen had x2 Reiatsu of a captain
Nope, that scan proves that Aizen has at least x2 Reiatsu of a captain, not just x2 mulitplication.
Therefore Ichigo having x2 power of a captain doesn't mean he is equal to base Aizen which was later proved by feats, your counterargument is null.
Dude kyoka doesn’t have a Machenic making it weaker by extension of another. That’s specifically the draw back for tokinada.
I already brought a statement that the weakness was unlocked because Tokinada had a weaker Reiatsu.
Shunsui thinks there is a weakness because TOKS ability makes the ability weaker if he is weaker that is the prerequisite
And we aren’t ignoring anything your literally ignoring the lost agent arc.
You are literally ignoring the context, if Shunsui never question Aizen’s KS, and later he does question Toki’s because Toki is far weaker than Aizen, it certainly means base Aizen is above Tokinada.
No, nano right before says I can’t believe he can copy abilities and they then say he can’t have every.
Bro, Nanao is just not believing that because its impressive, and also even then I never said Tokinada has every ******* ability in the whole verse, so Idk what's your point.
The conversation then shifts to amount by saying fkt which had most of the captains
Shunsui even said “even without that power he’s a formidable opponent”
tok can use abilities he’s seen, which is why shunsui says he’s well prepared.
They are quite literally, possibly excluding fkt aizen since shunsui says “even without”
That's a false interpretation actually, but even tho, it answers your question that since he saw them during FKT he could use them, so your point is null.
Even more so this is presuming tokinada and aizen are the same as combatants
Its basically saying that this weakness was unlocked because Tokinada is weaker than Base Aizen, I don't get why you aren't admitting it tho, Aizen never had that weakness because he was stronger than Tokinada, accept it and understand that your scaling doesn't fit into the story with, thanks to CFYOW
 
“Had Tokinada been Aizen, he might have been able to fulfill the conditions of having those around him see the shikai the moment it was invoked. However, now that someone other than Aizen was using the blade, another weakness was involved. Tokinada’s spiritual pressure was nowhere near Aizen’s level, and because of that, it was possible for the shikai transformation itself to be sealed through incredibly strong spiritual pressure.”

Excerpt From
Bleach: Can’t Fear Your Own World, Vol. 3
Tite Kubo, Ryohgo Narita
This material may be protected by copyright.
 
I already brought a statement that the weakness was unlocked because Tokinada had a weaker Reiatsu.
The reason why it was born 1st is he is not aizen so he does not have kyoka 2 his zanpacto makes it so he can use kyoka 3 because of its mechanics him being weaker than aizen creates a weakness.
I already brought a statement that the weakness was unlocked because Tokinada had a weaker Reiatsu.
the reason why it was born was because of tok being weaker than aizen and by proxy having a limit put on it by his zanpacto, it cannot both exist before and only come to existence now.
You are literally ignoring the context, if Shunsui never question Aizen’s KS, and later he does question Toki’s because Toki is far weaker than Aizen, it certainly means base Aizen is above Tokinada.
Aizen does not have tokinadas sword and as a result does not have its strengths and weakness, we see shunsui even think about that happening and he starts to shudder.

Stop trying to equate tok to aizen when kyoka didnt have this weakness

Bro, Nanao is just not believing that because its impressive, and also even then I never said Tokinada has every ******* ability in the whole verse, so Idk what's your point.
my point is trying to link fkt to aizen in a power sense falls through when the reason it is being presented is because of quantity of ability, so your continued use to try and link base aizens power and toks doesnt work.
That's a false interpretation actually, but even tho, it answers your question that since he saw them during FKT he could use them, so your point is null.

No its not lmao, they literally are talking about quantity of hax he has at his disposal which is why nano is in disbelief, and then they talk about him being able to see abilites and finally mention fkt which directly has most of the soul societs military force in it. Not only this the way its presented seems to exclude aizen in the first place.

Its basically saying that this weakness was unlocked because Tokinada is weaker than Base Aizen, I don't get why you aren't admitting it tho, Aizen never had that weakness because he was stronger than Tokinada, accept it and understand that your scaling doesn't fit into the story with, thanks to CFYOW
tok is not aizen, tok can only use kyoka with this sword, IF this was unlocked because he was weak this would've ALWAYS been a weakness that could never be applied because aizen was stronger than those around. However, that is false because it came into conception in cfyow. Aizen, I hope you do remember was a lt and before that a random that awakened a sword. These versions of aizen are not stronger than tokinada however by your logic they are
 
seems like they decided to use the same reasoning as the comics vine user that said garganta is outerspace

even tho we know in outer space they can die and in garganta no stars nor anything exist
so is the argument currently that the garganta is inside the wotl and ss ?
 
that garganta is basically space

and that only thing on the dimensions are the planets

as for the sun, moon, stars etc. idk, might be they now saying that they are not real or something
In that statement they are using a smilie so are we getting 5d ichigo akm approved? Bleach feasting 🍽
 
Nope, that scan proves that Aizen has at least x2 Reiatsu of a captain, not just x2 mulitplication.
Therefore Ichigo having x2 power of a captain doesn't mean he is equal to base Aizen which was later proved by feats, your counterargument is null.
X2 i meant twice the Reiatsu of a Captain. Both Aizen and Ichigo were said to have twice the Reiatsu of a Captain. My point still stands.
 
While im unsure about timelines, the anime and kubo actually do confirm bleach has multiple alternate worlds. If you remember the art for ichigo and gang in a desert. That is an world where ichigo and the gang are named slightly different and rukia is a genie

Senna is designed as the child of renji and rukia from a parallel universe.

Bbs actually uses this idea a fairly large amount iirc they have shown 4-5 ? I’m not really invests in bbs sadly
 
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