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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

I swear, I definitely don't care that much about the power of fictional characters but I hope that in the new arc the realms are once and for all stated to be universes because this is the XXth time some convoluted and pointlessly weird cosmology is brought to nerf this series
Like, the whole thing is just so farfetched
 
Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye said:
The OP is clearly nerfing the cosmology. It's not just Senna. The entire first part is trying to establish that the realms are only planets.
Click to expand...
If that’s the case then that’s just wrong on so many levels lol. Either way at bare minimum they’d be at least 5B because of Yhwach lifting the wandenreich feat which with the new distance is 5B
 

戸魂界と現世は、それぞれ別個に独立して存在する並列世界である。その異世界の間を行き来するために用いられるのがこの「穿界門」である。その通行の際には、死神のみが携行可能なせんかいもんじごくちょう黒い趨を持つ墓「地獄蝶」が必要とされる。
The Soul Society and this world are parallel worlds that exist separately and independently. It is this "Kaikaimon" that is used to go back and forth between the different worlds. When passing through, a grave "Hell Butterfly" with a black sword that only the god of death can carry is required.

They exists independently which means their dimensions
 
Is there anything in that thread that wasnt debunked? Im pretty sure my argument debunks the basis that AKM built his argument on, also others pointed out some questions that show how SS and WoTL being planets in the context of the movie wont make any sense, idk if there is sth left tbh just someone should organize/summarize the counter arguments in one message
 
YukaSama4 said:
Is there anything in that thread that wasnt debunked? Im pretty sure my argument debunks the basis that AKM built his argument on, also others pointed out some questions that show how SS and WoTL being planets in the context of the movie wont make any sense, idk if there is sth left tbh just someone should organize/summarize the counter arguments in one message
Click to expand...
It can’t be debunked when the OP is ignoring every argument and just counting fra votes.
 
first time doing this so hope it turns out well
Hey friends this is a post about full bring ichigo scaling to mugetsu since im under the impression its not believed
full bring Ichigo and subsequent characters that either fight him should be thought above mugetsu
from here I'll just use fb to refer to fb ichigo, tsuk to reference Tsukishima

1. It is first very important to establish that mugetsu is just ichigos powers it's not special

taken from bleach the rebooted souls -
届かぬ強敵、新たな危機に、眠っていた力が解放され勝利を掴んできた一護。根底にある“護りたい”気持ちが、加速度的に一護の力を高めていく
In the face of an unreachable enemy and a new crisis, Ichigo's dormant power is unleashed and he is able to win. Ichigo's power is accelerated by his underlying desire to protect.

「みんな。力を失った俺に戻させて力をくれた 』
"Hey, guys. I lost my powers, and you let me get them back and gave me strength."

So. the verse considers mugetsu to be Ichigo's dormant power being unleashed, this both tells us that this is NOT in fact true shikai since that would be included in until now. As well as the fact that mugetsu is considered to be part of Ichigo's power.

As you can see this is full bring shikai Ichigo and not full bring, the reason this doesn't matter is because the arc establishes Ichigo's complete fb as = to mugetsu but the fb forms aren't in this guide. He lost his powers, against Aizen; the soul society got them back but amplified so they gave him strength.

Compiling the chapter summaries, we see mugetsu being Ichigo's power to be a trend as well as the fact that Ichigo is getting or has gotten them back. Yhwach furthermore confirms this in the tybw when it shows Ginjo for Ichigo+ getting his powers back. This is post Ichigo admonishing mugetsu after getting his true shikai, so for the lost agent arc to be placed here is saying this is his intentions.

2. Kubo continuously displays mugetsu in the anime to make his intentions even clearer

in the manga originally, we see rukia disappearing, and it is there by implying mugetsu since this is a scene for ichigo right after this has taken place
in the anime we see the full scene of ichigo remembering his powers and see mugetsu and monster aizen multiple times

While starting his training ichigo considers this time no different and that he'll get his powers back which is shown including yes mugetsu
When actually training with Jackie and remembering what made him the warrior, he is he further thinks of mugetsu

finally at the end of the arc when ichigo is revealing that the soul society is spying on him we see Ichigo think of his powers and he thinks say it with me mugetsu


3. Full bring narratively is made = to mugetsu

fb is introduced to Ichigo as equal to his past powers, so Ichigo's thought process is mugetsu
Just to make it clear they are talking about in terms of spiritual pressure hi Ginjo
The chapter raws steadily tease at ichigo getting his powers back with the black robe, showing as well that a level is being worked to
Ichigo himself is thinks his power will make him strong enough to beat kisuke a base aizen tier fighter 17 months ago, which is only concretely capable after entering the dangai
Tsuk claims hes nearing, his past powers this is after devising the plot with ginjo and changing the past so he at least has seen mugetsu once, possibly 3 times if they saw it originally
ichigo self-proclaims it, and from context we know that this would mean he thinks he got mugetsu lvls of strength back
tsuk then claims hes several times above his calcs, which at this point he has seen the fight any of 2-8 times possibly 12 if all the full bringers saw it to and each time participated in it
The manga shows a broken black coffin so he may have broken it himself, he is attributed to being the reason they won after all.

4. Fb ichigo is above mugetsu

So, till now I've been saying how full bring is equal to mugetsu so that is true but it is just the full bring itself
Ichigo trains straight physically and against Ginjo in combat to amplify his stats. This makes him "multiple times" stronger and faster than what tsuk expected
key word expected, tsuk and ginjo planned this and factored in Ichigo tanning and thereby surpassing just baseline mugetsu
However, since we don't really have a way to quantify the difference after 2 from "multiple" it just becomes
Fb is = to mugetsu
fb ichigo is >>> mugetsu

5. But what about the other captains that dont have a statement to have trained?

I got you fam

unmasked-
L'instigateur du complot condamné, la paix est revenue à Soul Society aussi. Chacun se remet à avancer pas à pas Sous la forme d'entraînement, de colère, de frustration face à son propre manque d'expérience...

With the instigator of the plot condemned, peace has returned to Soul Society as well. Each one starts to move forward step by step in the form of training, anger, frustration faced with their own lack of experience...

Lost agent arc itself

6. conclusion

Fb ichigo, tsuk, ginjo and characters scaling to them in this arc should all be thought of above mugetsu

Hope I changed any onlooker's thoughts on fb since fr everything included there's around 50+ scans in one way or another saying Ichigo will get back his power. Thats not an exaggeration btw which does make sense that's the plot of the arc
 
CalmHill said:
first time doing this so hope it turns out well
Hey friends this is a post about full bring ichigo scaling to mugetsu since im under the impression its not believed
full bring Ichigo and subsequent characters that either fight him should be thought above mugetsu
from here I'll just use fb to refer to fb ichigo, tsuk to reference Tsukishima

1. It is first very important to establish that mugetsu is just ichigos powers it's not special

taken from bleach the rebooted souls -
届かぬ強敵、新たな危機に、眠っていた力が解放され勝利を掴んできた一護。根底にある“護りたい”気持ちが、加速度的に一護の力を高めていく
In the face of an unreachable enemy and a new crisis, Ichigo's dormant power is unleashed and he is able to win. Ichigo's power is accelerated by his underlying desire to protect.

「みんな。力を失った俺に戻させて力をくれた 』
"Hey, guys. I lost my powers, and you let me get them back and gave me strength."

So. the verse considers mugetsu to be Ichigo's dormant power being unleashed, this both tells us that this is NOT in fact true shikai since that would be included in until now. As well as the fact that mugetsu is considered to be part of Ichigo's power.

As you can see this is full bring shikai Ichigo and not full bring, the reason this doesn't matter is because the arc establishes Ichigo's complete fb as = to mugetsu but the fb forms aren't in this guide. He lost his powers, against Aizen; the soul society got them back but amplified so they gave him strength.

Compiling the chapter summaries, we see mugetsu being Ichigo's power to be a trend as well as the fact that Ichigo is getting or has gotten them back. Yhwach furthermore confirms this in the tybw when it shows Ginjo for Ichigo+ getting his powers back. This is post Ichigo admonishing mugetsu after getting his true shikai, so for the lost agent arc to be placed here is saying this is his intentions.

2. Kubo continuously displays mugetsu in the anime to make his intentions even clearer

in the manga originally, we see rukia disappearing, and it is there by implying mugetsu since this is a scene for ichigo right after this has taken place
in the anime we see the full scene of ichigo remembering his powers and see mugetsu and monster aizen multiple times

While starting his training ichigo considers this time no different and that he'll get his powers back which is shown including yes mugetsu
When actually training with Jackie and remembering what made him the warrior, he is he further thinks of mugetsu

finally at the end of the arc when ichigo is revealing that the soul society is spying on him we see Ichigo think of his powers and he thinks say it with me mugetsu


3. Full bring narratively is made = to mugetsu

fb is introduced to Ichigo as equal to his past powers, so Ichigo's thought process is mugetsu
Just to make it clear they are talking about in terms of spiritual pressure hi Ginjo
The chapter raws steadily tease at ichigo getting his powers back with the black robe, showing as well that a level is being worked to
Ichigo himself is thinks his power will make him strong enough to beat kisuke a base aizen tier fighter 17 months ago, which is only concretely capable after entering the dangai
Tsuk claims hes nearing, his past powers this is after devising the plot with ginjo and changing the past so he at least has seen mugetsu once, possibly 3 times if they saw it originally
ichigo self-proclaims it, and from context we know that this would mean he thinks he got mugetsu lvls of strength back
tsuk then claims hes several times above his calcs, which at this point he has seen the fight any of 2-8 times possibly 12 if all the full bringers saw it to and each time participated in it
The manga shows a broken black coffin so he may have broken it himself, he is attributed to being the reason they won after all.

4. Fb ichigo is above mugetsu

So, till now I've been saying how full bring is equal to mugetsu so that is true but it is just the full bring itself
Ichigo trains straight physically and against Ginjo in combat to amplify his stats. This makes him "multiple times" stronger and faster than what tsuk expected
key word expected, tsuk and ginjo planned this and factored in Ichigo tanning and thereby surpassing just baseline mugetsu
However, since we don't really have a way to quantify the difference after 2 from "multiple" it just becomes
Fb is = to mugetsu
fb ichigo is >>> mugetsu

5. But what about the other captains that dont have a statement to have trained?

I got you fam

unmasked-
L'instigateur du complot condamné, la paix est revenue à Soul Society aussi. Chacun se remet à avancer pas à pas Sous la forme d'entraînement, de colère, de frustration face à son propre manque d'expérience...

With the instigator of the plot condemned, peace has returned to Soul Society as well. Each one starts to move forward step by step in the form of training, anger, frustration faced with their own lack of experience...

Lost agent arc itself
6. conclusion

Fb ichigo, tsuk, ginjo and characters scaling to them in this arc should all be thought of above mugetsu

Hope I changed any onlooker's thoughts on fb since fr everything included there's around 50+ scans in one way or another saying Ichigo will get back his power. Thats not an exaggeration btw which does make sense that's the plot of the arc
Click to expand...
Yhwach compared TS Ichigo to Mugestu. It just Debunk this whole
 
CalmHill said:
first time doing this so hope it turns out well
Hey friends this is a post about full bring ichigo scaling to mugetsu since im under the impression its not believed
full bring Ichigo and subsequent characters that either fight him should be thought above mugetsu
from here I'll just use fb to refer to fb ichigo, tsuk to reference Tsukishima

1. It is first very important to establish that mugetsu is just ichigos powers it's not special

taken from bleach the rebooted souls -
届かぬ強敵、新たな危機に、眠っていた力が解放され勝利を掴んできた一護。根底にある“護りたい”気持ちが、加速度的に一護の力を高めていく
In the face of an unreachable enemy and a new crisis, Ichigo's dormant power is unleashed and he is able to win. Ichigo's power is accelerated by his underlying desire to protect.

「みんな。力を失った俺に戻させて力をくれた 』
"Hey, guys. I lost my powers, and you let me get them back and gave me strength."

So. the verse considers mugetsu to be Ichigo's dormant power being unleashed, this both tells us that this is NOT in fact true shikai since that would be included in until now. As well as the fact that mugetsu is considered to be part of Ichigo's power.

As you can see this is full bring shikai Ichigo and not full bring, the reason this doesn't matter is because the arc establishes Ichigo's complete fb as = to mugetsu but the fb forms aren't in this guide. He lost his powers, against Aizen; the soul society got them back but amplified so they gave him strength.

Compiling the chapter summaries, we see mugetsu being Ichigo's power to be a trend as well as the fact that Ichigo is getting or has gotten them back. Yhwach furthermore confirms this in the tybw when it shows Ginjo for Ichigo+ getting his powers back. This is post Ichigo admonishing mugetsu after getting his true shikai, so for the lost agent arc to be placed here is saying this is his intentions.

2. Kubo continuously displays mugetsu in the anime to make his intentions even clearer

in the manga originally, we see rukia disappearing, and it is there by implying mugetsu since this is a scene for ichigo right after this has taken place
in the anime we see the full scene of ichigo remembering his powers and see mugetsu and monster aizen multiple times

While starting his training ichigo considers this time no different and that he'll get his powers back which is shown including yes mugetsu
When actually training with Jackie and remembering what made him the warrior, he is he further thinks of mugetsu

finally at the end of the arc when ichigo is revealing that the soul society is spying on him we see Ichigo think of his powers and he thinks say it with me mugetsu


3. Full bring narratively is made = to mugetsu

fb is introduced to Ichigo as equal to his past powers, so Ichigo's thought process is mugetsu
Just to make it clear they are talking about in terms of spiritual pressure hi Ginjo
The chapter raws steadily tease at ichigo getting his powers back with the black robe, showing as well that a level is being worked to
Ichigo himself is thinks his power will make him strong enough to beat kisuke a base aizen tier fighter 17 months ago, which is only concretely capable after entering the dangai
Tsuk claims hes nearing, his past powers this is after devising the plot with ginjo and changing the past so he at least has seen mugetsu once, possibly 3 times if they saw it originally
ichigo self-proclaims it, and from context we know that this would mean he thinks he got mugetsu lvls of strength back
tsuk then claims hes several times above his calcs, which at this point he has seen the fight any of 2-8 times possibly 12 if all the full bringers saw it to and each time participated in it
The manga shows a broken black coffin so he may have broken it himself, he is attributed to being the reason they won after all.

4. Fb ichigo is above mugetsu

So, till now I've been saying how full bring is equal to mugetsu so that is true but it is just the full bring itself
Ichigo trains straight physically and against Ginjo in combat to amplify his stats. This makes him "multiple times" stronger and faster than what tsuk expected
key word expected, tsuk and ginjo planned this and factored in Ichigo tanning and thereby surpassing just baseline mugetsu
However, since we don't really have a way to quantify the difference after 2 from "multiple" it just becomes
Fb is = to mugetsu
fb ichigo is >>> mugetsu

5. But what about the other captains that dont have a statement to have trained?

I got you fam

unmasked-
L'instigateur du complot condamné, la paix est revenue à Soul Society aussi. Chacun se remet à avancer pas à pas Sous la forme d'entraînement, de colère, de frustration face à son propre manque d'expérience...

With the instigator of the plot condemned, peace has returned to Soul Society as well. Each one starts to move forward step by step in the form of training, anger, frustration faced with their own lack of experience...

Lost agent arc itself
6. conclusion

Fb ichigo, tsuk, ginjo and characters scaling to them in this arc should all be thought of above mugetsu

Hope I changed any onlooker's thoughts on fb since fr everything included there's around 50+ scans in one way or another saying Ichigo will get back his power. Thats not an exaggeration btw which does make sense that's the plot of the arc
Click to expand...
There was no nuke or shockwave destroying mountains, so no Fullbring isn’t stronger than Dangai. Oh, wait. I could say the same about the final arc or the hell arc too. 🤔
 
YukaSama4 said:
I just noticed, AKM said the dimensions weren't inside the Dangai, but re-watching the scene, we are clearly shown that they were there:

countless spiritual explosions were confirmed inside Dangai, we can see those explosions actually happening right between SS and WoTL, and there is not any other thing between them, meaning they were actually inside the Dangai.
right?
Click to expand...
Not only this but Kisuke’s explanation to the guys with Toshiro shows that the realms would be pulled into the Dangai.

Another thing I noticed was that his OP says that the shot of the realms and the orange thing between them is viewed from inside the Dangai …… but then AKM later said that the orange thing between the realms is the Dangai?
 
@CalmHill currently, the FB scaling opponents and supporters have made an alliance to protect uni Bleach, you are trying to disturb that alliance.
AnonymousBlank said:
Another thing I noticed was that his OP says that the shot of the realms and the orange thing between them is viewed from inside the Dangai …… but then AKM later said that the orange thing between the realms is the Dangai?
Click to expand...
If I got extra time today I will make a post that sums up all the points in the thread that were directly refuting the OP in an organized way so everyone can read it and put his thoughts there, that would be better ig
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
Bruh...welp if it exist it better be used.
Click to expand...
I think this is the statement:
“I had Tsukishima change my past, but...in that past, there was a half-
Soul Reaper human who tried to help remove the Fullbringers’ Hollow
powers... In that timeline, Tsukishima killed the half-Soul Reaper and all
our friends.”
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
Or we will have to make do with what we have.
Click to expand...
I mean, I don't think it will work, as AKM is just twisting the meanings behind statements as he is doing that right now
 
What the hell, we have seen common Outer space on Gremmy vs Kenpachi.
Garganta is completely opposite.

Screenshot-20211127-134853-Brave.jpg
 
TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
Good thing we have statement from YH saying true shikai was on the same level as the power he used to defeat aizen
Click to expand...
Both can play that game, we have statements of Renji > Dangai level of power. His own and Unohana’s but sure Nanana is stronger since he can knock out Muken Aizen. 😮
 
AppleLord said:
Both can play that game, we have statements of Renji > Dangai level of power. His own and Unohana’s but sure Nanana is stronger since he can knock out Muken Aizen. 😮
Click to expand...
Renji's own statement can't be taken seriously by itself. Training to fight someone on Aizen's level doesn't mean he actually reached that level of power or could win in a fight against someone as strong as Aizen... What a character wants to do isn't necessarily what they're capable of.
 
Knocked muken Aizen out with hax and not really cause the black suit made his reiatsu holes visible and the chair suppressed him.
 
Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye said:
You must have missed when Damage downgraded it to like island level or something like that.
Click to expand...
Can you link that calc by chance? Because as far as I know it’s Cyber’s calc that’s currently accepted, it just needs to include the new distance as well. Though I haven’t really been keeping up with any ap things so I could be wrong
 
Reio35 said:

戸魂界と現世は、それぞれ別個に独立して存在する並列世界である。その異世界の間を行き来するために用いられるのがこの「穿界門」である。その通行の際には、死神のみが携行可能なせんかいもんじごくちょう黒い趨を持つ墓「地獄蝶」が必要とされる。
The Soul Society and this world are parallel worlds that exist separately and independently. It is this "Kaikaimon" that is used to go back and forth between the different worlds. When passing through, a grave "Hell Butterfly" with a black sword that only the god of death can carry is required.

They exists independently which means their dimensions
Click to expand...
And parallels, separated, contained in the same realm but they don't SF
 
The funny part is that when I remember the first time Imade and Arc debated Kukui and staff in that thread about Yhwach, everyone was like "oh why don't we see tremors in other galaxies, why we don't see stars getting destroyed"
Now they argue that the planets that were going to get destroyed but it doesn't matter how no one in said planets felt what they should actually be feeling if the planets were pushed towards each other
 
YukaSama4 said:
The funny part is that when I remember the first time Imade and Arc debated Kukui and staff in that thread about Yhwach, everyone was like "oh why don't we see tremors in other galaxies, why we don't see stars getting destroyed"
Now they argue that the planets that were going to get destroyed but it doesn't matter how no one in said planets felt what they should actually be feeling if the planets were pushed towards each other
Click to expand...
083b76195b36ba8c5ffc51bc6b9e11a1.jpg
 
Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
Yhwach compared TS Ichigo to Mugestu. It just Debunk this whole
Click to expand...
no, he doesn't, he says this is the power ichigo was supposed to have however, this is in reference to his blood amp since yhwach was going to convert ichigo to his side. Or it can even be Ichigo resolving himself but none of these imply a form, I can say this is full bring just as I can say mugetsu if I apply the logic.

Look back at the chapter he gets true shikai. Right before the big the sword is me, Ichigo references mugetsu and how this is not what hes going to be doing showing it's not that and shouldn't be thought as that. And told to us later this is not by confirming it was the lost agent arc that got his powers back, which we knew since Ichigo told us.

YukaSama4 said:
currently, the FB scaling opponents and supporters have made an alliance to protect uni Bleach, you are trying to disturb that alliance.
Click to expand...
We can have uni bleach and fb> mugetsu
 
Damage3245 said:
Renji's own statement can't be taken seriously by itself. Training to fight someone on Aizen's level doesn't mean he actually reached that level of power or could win in a fight against someone as strong as Aizen... What a character wants to do isn't necessarily what they're capable of.
Click to expand...
So the author who loves statements and tries to provide little feats including going to the trouble of having Soul Society insert barriers in the human world to limit AoE somehow makes Renji say something irrelevant? 🧢
 
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