BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[Arc7Kuroi]

Ichigo thinks him and Uryu need to team up to defeat Almighty Jugram is all I’m gonna say.

The scaling is a bit nuanced but I think y’all will see the vision when I post my thread.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

May I know why the cosmology is rated as 3A possibly L2C instead of either 3A or L2C

I couldnt find any blogs that discuss it, I assume it's in some ancient crt

3-A, possibly Low 2-C comes from a compromise of what “destroying all of Soul Society means”. That compromise being whether they’re destroying the spacetime continuum or just the physical universe.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

3-A, possibly Low 2-C comes from a compromise of what “destroying all of Soul Society means”. That compromise being whether they’re destroying the spacetime continuum or just the physical universe.

is there a blog or crt where this was decided that you could kindly point me to?

I assumed the 2C stuff came from Dangai and Garganta embedding the structures as lower subsets

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Ichigo thinks him and Uryu need to team up to defeat Almighty Jugram is all I’m gonna say.

The scaling is a bit nuanced but I think y’all will see the vision when I post my thread.

I kinda see the idea. Ichigo suggested that they should kill Jugram rather than sleepy Yhwach.

 

[Tyri456]

Two questions:
1. Is Gerard affected by Renji's scaling?

2. Is Ichigo's Zanpakuto hanging feat telekinesis?

Hachi knows healing and it’s stated it can restore even Reiryoku in bleach, so I go with the easiest interpretation Renji is just healed.

In the manga Renji was fine and he still get KO’d, mind you Kubo wrote it.

Shinji is also shown relative to Byakuya,and I believe Byakuya > Renji.

At this point I just put Uryu hold back and never got injured anyway so I don’t apply scaling between him and Renji. I think it’s reasonable.

If there will be any clear way to scale Renji higher via nerf I’ll be open, but the Gerard thing for me now is author intent that just byakuya zaraki and Toshiro are build enough to fight gerard.

Or other options, is upscaling lot of people around s0. Which is debatable ig.

 

[Tyri456]

Ichigo thinks him and Uryu need to team up to defeat Almighty Jugram is all I’m gonna say.

The scaling is a bit nuanced but I think y’all will see the vision when I post my thread.

I think as well Almighty Jugram can be scaled near Almighty Yhwach somehow

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

is there a blog or crt where this was decided that you could kindly point me to?

I assumed the 2C stuff came from Dangai and Garganta embedding the structures as lower subsets

Got decided years ago in an AKM thread I think.

There is no 2-C stuff on the profiles. I've got a 2-C Bleach thread that will be coming out before January ends, so that should have your answers. In the mean time, this thread starts to touch on why the realms CAN refer to universes: https://vsbattles.com/threads/above-heaven-and-below-earth-0-alone-surpasses-13.160302/ and more specifically that why in the case of Squad 0 they're referring to the universe and not the planet.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Got decided years ago in an AKM thread I think.

oh man

There is no 2-C stuff on the profiles. I've got a 2-C Bleach thread that will be coming out before January ends, so that should have your answers

Fairs

In the mean time, this thread starts to touch on why the realms CAN refer to universes: https://vsbattles.com/threads/above-heaven-and-below-earth-0-alone-surpasses-13.160302/ and more specifically that why in the case of Squad 0 they're referring to the universe and not the planet.

You've shown this to me before I agree with it

 

[Johner2133451]

Thread 'Uryu Ishida vs Captain Ginyu'

Dec 29, 2024

Uryū Ishida

Uryū Ishida (石いし田だ 雨う竜りゅう, Ishida Uryū?) is a Gemischt Quincy residing in Karakura Town. He is a Doctor at Karakura Hospital, and a friend of Ichigo Kurosaki. He is a former member of the Wandenreich with the designation "A" - "Antithesis", one of Yhwach's "Schutzstaffel" (親衛隊シュッツシュタッフェル...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Captain Ginyu

Captain Ginyu (ギニュー) was the leading member of an elite mercenary platoon, the eponymous Ginyu Force. He was killed by Vegeta after swapping bodies with Tagoma in Resurrection 'F' Saga. Tier: 5-A | 5-B | 10-C | 4-B Key: Base | Goku's Body | Namekian Frog's Body | Tagoma's Body Name: Ginyu...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Speed Equalized

• Johner2133451
• bleach captain ginyu dragon ball uryü ishida
• Replies: 13
• Forum: Versus Threads

 

[Robo432343]

No.

 

[Hellscream]

No.

Big words coming from you

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

oh man

It was during an era where we took what we could get lmao, unfortunately the "uni Bleach wars" spanned several threads that were often just continuations of each other, so there's no one thread I can point you too. Plus I think a lot of my older arguments just outright suck lol

Fairs

Yeah I'm kinda going at the pace of the anime, since they're adding so much new stuff I figured it's best to wait before as cours go. I want to make a cosmology blog once the anime is fully concluded. Granted that won't be for like another year lol.

You've shown this to me before I agree with it

Based. I wanna say I proposed 2-C in that thread, but idk if I really agree with 2-C that much, I think 4-A is probably better and less speculative.

 

[Ebihara]

Big words coming from you

I would normally agree, but Johner has been on a GENERATIONAL run lately, and might take robo's GOAT title.

 

[Robo432343]

bro where is ganju

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

It was during an era where we took what we could get lmao, unfortunately the "uni Bleach wars" spanned several threads that were often just continuations of each other, so there's no one thread I can point you too. Plus I think a lot of my older arguments just outright suck lol

I understand it is bleach's version of ETSO drama and would naturally lead to that but assuming you were present there could you give me a TLDR of where the tier 2 is coming from?


Tbh after cour 4 is probably the best if you wish to take back 2C bleach as it would have the most anime canon content itll likely expand on much needed things

 

[Hellscream]

Robo finally meeting someone on his own level

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I understand it is bleach's version of ETSO drama and would naturally lead to that but assuming you were present there could you give me a TLDR of where the tier 2 is coming from?

It's just equivocal interpretations of what destroying existence entailed in those old Bleach threads. We granted that it would at least encompass the physical matter (3-A) while possibly referring to the structural construct of the realm as a spacetime continuum as well (possibly Low 2-C). In a nutshell it was accepted that Reio's ED would cause the everything to be destroyed, and everything was granted basically at least 3-A, possibly Low 2-C. Very bare bones, but that's the TLDR. Personally, I think you can be a little more critical and skeptical of those types of arguments, but I plan on replacing them here soon anyway.

Tbh after cour 4 is probably the best if you wish to take back 2C bleach as it would have the most anime canon content itll likely expand on much needed things

Fs fs.

 

[Robo432343]

does anyone know when cour 4 will drop

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

does anyone know when cour 4 will drop

No release date yet. I'm gonna guess october 2025.

 

[Deceived3596]

Thread 'Gremmy's Nonexistent Non-Existence Erasure and his Not-Nonexistent-Non-Physical Interaction'

Dec 29, 2024

Introduction:

Simply put, I believe, with the evidence we are given, Gremmy shouldn’t have Nonexistence Erasure. I originally planned on including this in my previous ability removal thread, but I decided against it, given how controversial the ability is, and what the replacement ability would entail.

Argumentation - Gremmy’s Nonexistence Erasure:

To address why I disagree with the ability ascribed, I’ll need to lay some groundwork: In the given feats, we see Gremmy destroy a careening block of concrete blasted off by Kenpachi, and the next one is Gremmy...

• Deceived3596
• content revison thread gremmy thoumeaux
• Replies: 7
• Forum: Content Revision

• 

 

[LordGriffin1000]

No release date yet. I'm gonna guess october 2025.

Noooooo!!!!

 

[PerezosoUlixes]

1. Renji fought weaker form of uryu different than the one that beat senjumaru with mimihagi marks, red eyes.
His scaling should be connected to gerard, yes.

2. Yes. It's pretty clear

I don't see why would Ishida be weaker after awakening his power and then mastering them.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I don't see why would Ishida be weaker after awakening his power and then mastering them.

He’s not lmao it’s just cope

 

[SlendVeny]

I know he got taken out after, but Yushiro beating down on Askin was cool as hell, the Ora-Ora Rush move made me laugh.

 

[Adam1396]

ya know thinking about how do we handle uryu scaling?
we know theses characters already upscales Senjumaru feat
Yhwach
Ichigo
Aizen

Yes, that is correct

uryu and jugram as well tho uryu a weird case cause he still was strong enough to put a hole in a TS shikai ichigo even if the latter wasn't was serious like he was in there round 2

Uryu put hole through a incapped paralyzed senjumaru, off guarded ichigo.
None of these really qualify to scale him to their actual full powered form.

And I was pointing out, the one that beat senjumaru is stronger than the one that renji fought. His red eyes, mimihagi marks makes it very clear both are different forms

@Arc7Kuroi ya can offer ya suggestion

 

[Adam1396]

May I know why the cosmology is rated as 3A possibly L2C instead of either 3A or L2C

I couldnt find any blogs that discuss it, I assume it's in some ancient crt

These will be tackled in future after cosmology revision I suppose.
We might get 2C for squad zero and a lot higher for god tiers. Time will tell

 

[Adam1396]

I don't see why would Ishida be weaker after awakening his power and then mastering them.

Because there's no reason to assume he can just tap into that power or yhwach will just continuously give him amp when we see mimihagi and red eyes not appearing in later cases making it distinguishable form lol.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Because there's no reason to assume he can just tap into that power or yhwach will just continuously give him amp when we see mimihagi and red eyes not appearing in later cases making it distinguishable form lol.

Ok so how the f*ck can he fight Ichigo then? Oh wait, maybe it's because he scales.

Literally nothing implies that he is weaker than when he fought Senjumaru, this is purely baseless headcanon, unless you wanna say Ichigo held back to such an insane extent, which is also untrue because ain't no way he would nerf himself that much.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Probably. Funny enough we already know Shinigami can do limited TK with the whole Rangiku reiatsu booby tape.

God, it's so funny that this actually sort of relevant. I love it.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Adam is committing what is called a false correlation fallacy. The act of mistaking correlation with causation. There’s just no way you can prove Uryu’s power awakening was a temporary one time thing. Not only is it inconsistent as Ichigo believes Jugram is an opponent he AND Uryu need to tag team to defeat, but he also in that very same implication claims Uryu would be at all non-negligible in a sum of their combined forces.

Furthermore, Shutara’s baseline durability > hyper casual reiatsu aura of her Bankai = 4-A. So regardless of Shutara being strung up by her own robes, her durability is in no way massively lowered. Being restrained =/= having your durability lowered. And to add insult to injury, it’s just objectively stated the form Uryu utilized against Shutara is plain old Vollstandig.

Renji’s just an entire other can of worms, but uh no one else scales to him anyway. There’s actually zero Byakuya > Renji scaling outside of headcanon and incredulity because Byakuya was always stronger than Renji in the past. “Oh but they did the same training ”, yeah Renji can just have more potential/a higher ceiling. And if Byakuya does get that scaling in cour 4, awesome, still no contradiction. Since Renji scales to base Uryu without Blut. Base Uryu is low end relative to Shutara WITH Blut. So Renji is an entire Bankai amp below Shutara’s casual 4-A yield. Squad 0 still mogs the Gotei 13, True Shikai Ichigo still mogs everyone that’s not Yhwach and Aizen. All y’all’s fears of random characters scaling above transcendent characters is baseless and wrong.

 

[LordTracer]

Funny enough we already know Shinigami can do limited TK with the whole Rangiku reiatsu booby tape.

Someone needs to make the CRT to add that to Rangiku’s profile

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Probably. Funny enough we already know Shinigami can do limited TK with the whole Rangiku reiatsu booby tape. So I imagine Ichigo is doing a more advanced application of that. We also know that TS Ichigo can solidify his reiatsu so not crazy either

Where was this stated?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Where was this stated?

Klub Outside. Genuinely probably can go into a Shinigami physiology blog. Limited TK with reiatsu. Enhanced for Ichigo level characters

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Adam is committing what is called a false correlation fallacy. The act of mistaking correlation with causation. There’s just no way you can prove Uryu’s power awakening was a temporary one time thing. Not only is it inconsistent as Ichigo believes Jugram is an opponent he AND Uryu need to tag team to defeat, but he also in that very same implication claims Uryu would be at all non-negligible in a sum of their combined forces.

Furthermore, Shutara’s baseline durability > hyper casual reiatsu aura of her Bankai = 4-A. So regardless of Shutara being strung up by her own robes, her durability is in no way massively lowered. Being restrained =/= having your durability lowered. And to add insult to injury, it’s just objectively stated the form Uryu utilized against Shutara is plain old Vollstandig.

Renji’s just an entire other can of worms, but uh no one else scales to him anyway. There’s actually zero Byakuya > Renji scaling outside of headcanon and incredulity because Byakuya was always stronger than Renji in the past. “Oh but they did the same training ”, yeah Renji can just have more potential/a higher ceiling. And if Byakuya does get that scaling in cour 4, awesome, still no contradiction. Since Renji scales to base Uryu without Blut. Base Uryu is low end relative to Shutara WITH Blut. So Renji is an entire Bankai amp below Shutara’s casual 4-A yield. Squad 0 still mogs the Gotei 13, True Shikai Ichigo still mogs everyone that’s not Yhwach and Aizen. All y’all’s fears of random characters scaling above transcendent characters is baseless and wrong.

I have seen the future with the almighty and Byakuya will scale with Hakuteiken, trust

 

[Adam1396]

Ok so how the f*ck can he fight Ichigo then? Oh wait, maybe it's because he scales.

Fights, so he automatically scales?
No. It depends on how the fight plays out.
You really should get off the notion that fights, damage, so scales.
I won't be surprised if some of ya brought askin should scale to ichigo based on aizen's reatsu statement. That would be hella funny.

Literally nothing implies that he is weaker than when he fought Senjumaru, this is purely baseless headcanon, unless you wanna say Ichigo held back to such an insane extent, which is also untrue because ain't no way he would nerf himself that much.

Implies?
No that's very much headcanon. This was implied he actually held back to insane extent. Ain't no way he won't held back insanely against one of his if not best friend.

 

[Adam1396]

Adam is committing what is called a false correlation fallacy. The act of mistaking correlation with causation. There’s just no way you can prove Uryu’s power awakening was a temporary one time thing. Not only is it inconsistent as Ichigo believes Jugram is an opponent he AND Uryu need to tag team to defeat, but he also in that very same implication claims Uryu would be at all non-negligible in a sum of their combined forces.

I can prove the uryu renji and shutara fought are not same. It's hella easy.

It's not what you call "believe". These are clearly plot things and heroic response. Just like why he is not going around blizting em all.

Furthermore, Shutara’s baseline durability > hyper casual reiatsu aura of her Bankai = 4-A. So regardless of Shutara being strung up by her own robes, her durability is in no way massively lowered. Being restrained =/= having your durability lowered. And to add insult to injury, it’s just objectively stated the form Uryu utilized against Shutara is plain old Vollstandig.

Incorrect. Senjumaru was reversed to almost dead state where uryu was in. And we have seen it many times in such states characters are vulnerable or gets stronger with their life death situation thing.
Incorrect. Mimihagi and red eyes makes it very explicit.

Renji’s just an entire other can of worms, but uh no one else scales to him anyway. There’s actually zero Byakuya > Renji scaling outside of headcanon and incredulity because Byakuya was always stronger than Renji in the past. “Oh but they did the same training ”, yeah Renji can just have more potential/a higher ceiling. And if Byakuya does get that scaling in cour 4, awesome, still no contradiction. Since Renji scales to base Uryu without Blut. Base Uryu is low end relative to Shutara WITH Blut. So Renji is an entire Bankai amp below Shutara’s casual 4-A yield. Squad 0 still mogs the Gotei 13, True Shikai Ichigo still mogs everyone that’s not Yhwach and Aizen. All y’all’s fears of random characters scaling above transcendent characters is baseless and wrong.

No it actually seems like it's you who is trying to fill some agenda.
As I have addressed before. Both of uryu's forms are distinguishably different. So this scaling chain is incorrect.

Now what funnier is, let's assume this scaling is real. This s**t is an actual outlier compared to gremmy outlier.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Incorrect. Senjumaru was reversed to almost dead state where uryu was in. And we have seen it many times in such states characters are vulnerable or gets stronger with their life death situation thing.
Incorrect. Mimihagi and red eyes makes it very explicit.

She wasn’t, and reiterating a false correlation fallacy doesn’t make it magically correct. The only thing that swapped for Shutara was being bound in cloth.

No it actually seems like it's you who is trying to fill some agenda.
As I have addressed before. Both of uryu's forms are distinguishably different. So this scaling chain is incorrect.

Now what funnier is, let's assume this scaling is real. This s**t is an actual outlier compared to gremmy outlier.

They’re not distinct, you’re still mistaking corrrelation for causation. Funny enough too, Gremmy’s feat might not be an outlier anymore depending on what cour 4 does. But the outlier argument for Renji sucks.

 

[SlendVeny]

Renji’s just an entire other can of worms, but uh no one else scales to him anyway. There’s actually zero Byakuya > Renji scaling outside of headcanon and incredulity because Byakuya was always stronger than Renji in the past. “Oh but they did the same training ”, yeah Renji can just have more potential/a higher ceiling. And if Byakuya does get that scaling in cour 4, awesome, still no contradiction. Since Renji scales to base Uryu without Blut. Base Uryu is low end relative to Shutara WITH Blut. So Renji is an entire Bankai amp below Shutara’s casual 4-A yield. Squad 0 still mogs the Gotei 13, True Shikai Ichigo still mogs everyone that’s not Yhwach and Aizen. All y’all’s fears of random characters scaling above transcendent characters is baseless and wrong.

Renji... Renji... what's a Quincy to do? Gerard has to do something vs his Bankai. He's just gotta, it'd be so cool. Imagine giant-ass Gerard getting pushed back like 500ft by that Bankai and then smirking.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Klub Outside. Genuinely probably can go into a Shinigami physiology blog. Limited TK with reiatsu. Enhanced for Ichigo level characters

The boob magnet is real

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Fights, so he automatically scales?
No. It depends on how the fight plays out.
You really should get off the notion that fights, damage, so scales.
I won't be surprised if some of ya brought askin should scale to ichigo based on aizen's reatsu statement. That would be hella funny.

.......

I can't with you. I genuinely can not believe this madness. ICHIGO BEAT YHWACH'S ASS, if Uryu didn't scale within a millionth to him, he would be toast. Let's see where Ichigo said "I nerfed myself to captain level" ah yes, it's in the novel of INFH, short for It Never F**king Happened. Askin's hax only scales to have hurt Ichigo, his strength scales to jack shit. He had to use an unconventional mean to bypass Ichigo's resistance rather than use his usual special. Fights and damage is how we scale shit, if this didn't matter, how the hell would we get anywhere? We wouldn't.

Implies?
No that's very much headcanon. This was implied he actually held back to insane extent. Ain't no way he won't held back insanely against one of his if not best friend.

Again, NOTHING implies or states that Ichigo nerfed himself to such a ridculous level as to not hurt Uryu. There's a word to describe this claim: horseshit. Uryu may downscale from Ichigo due to mental nerfs, but he still scales, end of story.

Apologizes for my brashness but I'm completely tired of this utter nonsense.