Ayanokouji vs Conor (Detroit: Become Human) [0-2-0]

[Nikoandretti]

Tsukishiro is legit stated to have the same skill level by Koji himself

that doesn’t do Koji any favors for the inverse scaling chain

Moreover Tsukishiro and Shiba had prep time + prior knowledge + BIQ (Tsukishiro) comparable to Koji + Made a strategy to beat Koji in advance + Koji was dehydrated, tired and hungry

This is kinda irrelevant to dodging bullet trajectories

And Koji still outpredicted the hell out of them

And none of the prediction included bullet trajectories so please stop using that

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Well, Since we are not gonna go anywhere with this, I will say this again

I vote Koji FRA, I still did not see anything worthy on Connor's side

 

[Nikoandretti]

This is getting ridiculous ngl

You won’t make me back down or count the vote without the appropriate feats proving he can do what you are claiming with actual gun bullets. Which is why you ignored my point that if he could do it , it would be written on his profile and if someone tried to write it in, they would be reported for misinformation.

Bullets go in a STRAIGHT line

Koji just needs to LOOK at his fingers via predicting body movement which Koji has alot of broken feats in it

He has 0 feats predicting the finger movements of a gun. Framing the picture to what you assume what will happen doesn’t make it canon information.

Koji also just needs to LOOK at the direction the gun is pointing

Based off what gun feats was this stated?

 

[RoggerReggor]

In combat experience and intelligence yes, not in AP and durability . Thats a misconception about the verse.

He is stronger than most of the verse in AP and durability, not "massively", but "much" can be used as a word.

It would be an assumption either way tho, and can’t be used.

I’ve already addressed these before. They don’t prove he can dodge bullet projectiles, just are combat predicting feats and information analysis

all of this is impressive but it just doesn’t prove how it applies to predicting gun trajectories. As detailed as these feats are there would be one for it if thats the case. No characters gets to use feats they never shown, you need actual feats.

This is all assumption. Cant use assumption as a reasoning for a vote. There has so be concrete evidence to buff a claim so that it can’t be refuted. Everything you are saying can be refuted with lack of feats/proof. We haven’t even seen an actual gun in this verse.

I am not even assuming. Let me illustrate with an example of chess about why I think he will predict the gun trajectories.

So, you happen to be a 2000 rated player in chess, and you are playing against a 1000 rated player. Now, a 1000 rated player makes a really "1000 rated player" strategy which actually is on the level of a 1000 rated player. But the thing is that the 2000 rated player has never played it or seen it anywhere (hypothetical), but still, the 2000 rated player would see it happen and then play against that strategy. And... all of this is because the skill level of a 2000 rated player is basically very high and to the point where he is seeing something being done by a 1000 rated player without any difficulty.

This is exactly what I am saying. I have many times, seen the "Ayanokouji has never done it so he will not do it.", but again, I don't understand stuff like that because Ayanokouji has done stuff much better than that. He has predicted moves and stuff which he wasn't even paying enough attention and wasn't even observing the fighter doing those moves. Honestly, at this point, Ayanokouji not being able to predict the moves seems an assumption, and not Ayanokouji being able to predict the moves.

I will say that I am not assuming and I legit gave stuff and reasonings about why he would do it, and aside from the argument of them apparently being assumptions, I haven't seen any defense against that, like any logic behind why that wouldn't be the case. And I illustrated how volleyball predictions tend to be more impressive than bullet predictions with my own thoughts, which has remained unanswered. Still, it's entirely your choice. And just to say this, Ayanokouji already has matchups where he fights characters who are equipped with guns and this has been debated on a lot in the past and arrived on the conclusion of Ayanokouji winning it, so you are just digging an old grave of a debate with that.

So to help out with this debate, Connor is still decently skilled without the use of his gun, with probably his most impressive feat being fighting off and defeating several US Army soldiers with his bare hands even though the soldiers were armed. He has also done simular feats with his gun, such as here & here

I'm not super knowledgable on Ayano's skill, but this is some of Connor's more impressive feats

This is decent, but Ayanokouji defeated professionals in White Room (who are professionals in their fields and some of the sporty ones are even compared to Olympic athletes in skill) who all scale to an high level of skill and that too, by the age of just 9.

So, skill isn't a debate. An average COTE skill feat is getting dans over mastery in two martial arts which would collectively take about 25 years, at just the age of 14 (performed by Manabu, and I really plan on proposing an "At least Genius in combat and martial arts" rating off this), and Ayanokouji scales just way beyond oblivion to be even compared to this.

 

[Nikoandretti]

Well, Since we are not gonna go anywhere with this, I will say this again

I vote Koji FRA, I still did not see anything worthy on Connor's side

And the FRA being what?

are you agreeing with yourself? Because there was no new information provided that proves he can aim dodge.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

And the FRA being what?

are you agreeing with yourself?

Ye and also for Reggor

 

[Nikoandretti]

He is stronger than most of the verse in AP and durability, not "massively", but "much" can be used as a word.

But that’s a thread for another day, I’ll stay on topic.

I am not even assuming. Let me illustrate with an example of chess about why I think he will predict the gun trajectories.

So, you happen to be a 2000 rated player in chess, and you are playing against a 1000 rated player. Now, a 1000 rated player makes a really "1000 rated player" strategy which actually is on the level of a 1000 rated player. But the thing is that the 2000 rated player has never played it or seen it anywhere (hypothetical), but still, the 2000 rated player would see it happen and then play against that strategy. And... all of this is because the skill level of a 2000 rated player is basically very high and to the point where he is seeing something being done by a 1000 rated player without any difficulty.

I don’t need illustrations and examples. I just need proof of him doing it and we can move on. This is a fallacy bro

This is exactly what I am saying. I have many times, seen the "Ayanokouji has never done it so he will not do it.", but again, I don't understand stuff like that because Ayanokouji has done stuff much better than that. He has predicted moves and stuff which he wasn't even paying enough attention and wasn't even observing the fighter doing those moves. Honestly, at this point, Ayanokouji not being able to predict the moves seems an assumption, and not Ayanokouji being able to predict the moves.

This is an opinion, if he could do it he should have done it by now. It’s easy to provide feats bro. That’s all I need to validate it. Not examples and illustrations

I will say that I am not assuming and I legit gave stuff and reasonings about why he would do it, and aside from the argument of them apparently being assumptions, I haven't seen any defense against that, like any logic behind why that wouldn't be the case. And I illustrated how volleyball predictions tend to be more impressive than bullet predictions with my own thoughts, which has remained unanswered.

You cannot compare a vollyball to a gunshot. Not sure why this has to be explained

Still, it's entirely your choice. And just to say this, Ayanokouji already has matchups where he fights characters who are equipped with guns and this has been debated on a lot in the past and arrived on the conclusion of Ayanokouji winning it, so you are just digging an old grave of a debate with that.

I mean I seen the same accounts voting for Ayanokouji in those threads too. Outvoting doesn’t make it correct. I also seen a thread where Ayanokouji lost to Walter White via gunshot for not being able to predict the trajectory which is the main reason I’m not backing down.

This is decent, but Ayanokouji defeated professionals in White Room (who are professionals in their fields and some of the sporty ones are even compared to Olympic athletes in skill) who all scale to an high level of skill and that too, by the age of just 9.

Where was it stated he beat professionals? The scans I have state he fought rough and rugged gangsters and the statement about his instructors were they were the kind of people who don’t take it easy on women and children. I never seen the words professional, and in that fight he used weapons to attack weak points due to the significant strength difference

So, skill isn't a debate. An average COTE skill feat is getting dans over mastery in two martial arts which would collectively take about 25 years, at just the age of 14 (performed by Manabu, and I really plan on proposing an "At least Genius in combat and martial arts" rating off this), and Ayanokouji scales just way beyond oblivion to be even compared to this.

Manabu is not an “average” core character. He was the strongest and fastest student in the school which makes him far above a casual cote character

 

[Nikoandretti]

Ye and also for Reggor

I mean yall are just echoing the same points but that don’t make it valid. You are trying to use something you won’t even write on his profile because you know he can’t do it

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I mean yall are just echoing the same points but that don’t make it valid. You are trying to use something you won’t even write on his profile because you know he can’t do it

You still didn't debunk it

You are just deflecting

Aim dodging is legit a character getting out of the way of gun or predicting when he will shoot based on the fingers which falls under the body movement ANPR which you still are trying to dismiss it

I mean I seen the same accounts voting for Ayanokouji in those threads too. Outvoting doesn’t make it correct. I also seen a thread where Ayanokouji lost to Walter White via gunshot for not being able to predict the trajectory which is the main reason I’m not backing down.

The reason for that iirc was because the room was filled with poison and Koji had no answer to that

 

[RoggerReggor]

I don’t need illustrations and examples. I just need proof of him doing it and we can move on. This is a fallacy bro

Fallacy would be stating it without trying to prove that, I legit am.

This is an opinion, if he could do it he should have done it by now. It’s easy to provide feats bro. That’s all I need to validate it. Not examples and illustrations

Nah bro. You are just doing the "Character never did it, so he cannot." kind of thing. Like the thing you can do with this would be "Ayanokouji hasn't breathed New York's air, so give me proofs of him being able survive in New York.", which would be extremely bad and would sound outright idiotic. Not everything is just an assumption.

You cannot compare a vollyball to a gunshot. Not sure why this has to be explained

Why not? Volleyball involves aiming the ball to the target, firing a gun is the same. The only difference is that volleyball involves swinging of an arm, and gun involves pulling the trigger, and movements of both can be predicted even through conventional AnPr, Ayanokouji isn't a debate.

I mean I seen the same accounts voting for Ayanokouji in those threads too. Outvoting doesn’t make it correct. I also seen a thread where Ayanokouji lost to Walter White via gunshot for not being able to predict the trajectory which is the main reason I’m not backing down.

That thread was re-done, and the reason why Ayanokouji lost was because Walter had access to bombs.

Where was it stated he beat professionals? The scans I have state he fought rough and rugged gangsters and the statement about his instructors were they were the kind of people who don’t take it easy on women and children. I never seen the words professional, and in that fight he used weapons to attack weak points due to the significant strength difference

You missed it probably.

Manabu is not an “average” core character. He was the strongest and fastest student in the school which makes him far above a casual cote character

"Average" means a mid-tier. Manabu is not comparable to any high tier, which according to me is just full of people affiliated with the White Room. And for me, the strongest mid-tier is Housen or feats and scalable statements Kouenji.

 

[Nikoandretti]

You still didn't debunk it

You are just deflecting

How am I deflecting by saying a character can’t do a skill he never showcased? I’m literally asking for scans to validate it so if people say “Koji FRA” there’s an actual reason for this being the case

Aim dodging is legit a character getting out of the way of gun or predicting when he will shoot based on the fingers which falls under the body movement ANPR which you still are trying to dismiss it

Again, I can’t dismiss something someone has never did. You want me to count your vote for saying Ayanokōuji can dodge bullets in a verse that doesn’t even use guns

 

[XxZetsuxX]

How am I deflecting by saying a character can’t do a skill he never showcased? I’m literally asking for scans to validate it so if people say “Koji FRA” there’s an actual reason for this being the case

Again, I can’t dismiss something someone has never did. You want me to count your vote for saying Ayanokōuji can dodge bullets in a verse that doesn’t even use guns

Me and Reggor already showed you why he can do it

You refuse to acknowledge this

 

[RoggerReggor]

Again, I can’t dismiss something someone has never did. You want me to count your vote for saying Ayanokōuji can dodge bullets in a verse that doesn’t even use guns

VSBW Versus threads are pretty much just assumptions anyways. They are just making characters fight against each other in a "hypothetical" scenario, and putting assumptions on how a fight will go on.

So... there's nothing necessary like iterating and considering stuff as an "assumption" and ignoring the points for that. Also, it doesn't make a fallacy if it is tried to be backed up on by someone.

Drop that "it's just an assumption so not valid" attitude, and actually try to debate lol.

 

[Dinozxd]

Predicting punches and kicks or upscaling from predicting "volleyball trajectories" (which can legit be done by a volleyball player) do not equal to predicting bullet trajectories imo. Pulling a trigger is a much smaller movement than a punch's or a kick's or a volleyball swing's movement. Assuming Ayanokouji can predict the bullet's trajectory, Connor has an even better Precognition than Ayanokouji from what I've seen and can predict Ayanokouji's dodging movement and shoot another bullet to there which would catch Ayanokouji off guard and get him shot.

I'm not gonna debate as I always end up debating over common sense in threads related to COTE and I got reported for debating in a vs thread the last time so, yikes.

I'm voting Connor for now unless someone presents a point that changes my mind.

 

[Nikoandretti]

Fallacy would be stating it without trying to prove that, I legit am.

the Burden of proof is on you to actually showcase Ayanokouji using the exact skills you are referring to. If this was Douji Kodama it wouldn’t be a problem because as shown here, there is actual proof of him doing it and not using a different feat to say “because he did this he should be able to do this” that’s not how prediction feats work. A feat is completing something

Nah bro. You are just doing the "Character never did it, so he cannot." kind of thing. Like the thing you can do with this would be "Ayanokouji hasn't breathed New York's air, so give me proofs of him being able survive in New York.", which would be extremely bad and would sound outright idiotic. Not everything is just an assumption.

Comparing aim dodging to breathing oxygen is wild man

Why not? Volleyball involves aiming the ball to the target, firing a gun is the same. The only difference is that volleyball involves swinging of an arm, and gun involves pulling the trigger, and movements of both can be predicted even through conventional AnPr, Ayanokouji isn't a debate.

That thread was re-done, and the reason why Ayanokouji lost was because Walter had access to bombs.

You missed it probably.

No I read the thread. The thread was redone and nothing in it included anything about him aim dodging. The first thread he lost due to a gunshot. That’s what I’m talking about. The 2nd thread has no proof of it either

"Average" means a mid-tier. Manabu is not comparable to any high tier, which according to me is just full of people affiliated with the White Room. And for me, the strongest mid-tier is Housen or feats and scalable statements Kouenji.

Mid tiers in cote are Albert, Housen etc. manabu having martial arts would scale higher since he would attack weak points no differently than Kouji would and he has a statement from Kouji himself that Manabu could one shot him in the LN after the Suzune/Manabu situation

 

[Nikoandretti]

Predicting punches and kicks or upscaling from predicting "volleyball trajectories" (which can legit be done by a volleyball player) do not equal to predicting bullet trajectories imo. Pulling a trigger is a much smaller movement than a punch's or a kick's or a volleyball swing's movement. Assuming Ayanokouji can predict the bullet's trajectory, Connor has an even better Precognition than Ayanokouji from what I've seen and can predict Ayanokouji's dodging movement and shoot another bullet to there which would catch Ayanokouji off guard and get him shot.

I'm not gonna debate as I always end up debating over common sense in threads related to COTE and I got reported for debating in a vs thread the last time so, yikes.

I'm voting Connor for now unless someone presents a point that changes my mind.

A logical, well thought out response. Counting your vote for Connor via murder using his gun

 

[Zefra3011]

He made that prediciton in less than a quarter of a second, time seems to slow down when he uses it. He has also used it to predict the path of bullets before, so he can use it activley in combat

0,25 s? They are subsonic, Ayanokouji even keeps his Subsonic travel speed, if he uses it mid fight it will be fatal for him.

The slow down is easily game mechanic, it happens when the play has to make quick time events of some sort, I remember it also happened when I was playing Until Down and you have to shoot, unless on the profile he has enchanted sense/perception manipulation due to seeing the world in slow motion then it's game mechanic.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Well, If this match gets added

I will just tell to remove it honestly, The OP refuses to count votes against the character he is supporting

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

0,25 s? They are subsonic, Ayanokouji even keeps his Subsonic travel speed, if he uses it mid fight it will be fatal for him.

The slow down is easily game mechanic, it happens when the play has to make quick time events of some sort, I remember it also happened when I was playing Until Down and you have to shoot, unless on the profile he has enchanted sense/perception manipulation due to seeing the world in slow motion then it's game mechanic.

Androids are frequently shown to view time as standstill when scanning things & making predictions. Markus predicted how to intercept a drones path while the drone appeared frozen, and scanned an officers badge and hack into their radios while the cops appeared as stationary. And again, Connor has used his precog in the middle of battle, such as dodging the bullets shot by Simon on the rooftop, so it's not like he just stands there idol while predicting things

 

[Nikoandretti]

Well, If this match gets added

I will just tell to remove it honestly, The OP refuses to count votes against the character he is supporting

Do you do this to any thread that Ayanokouji wins? Because this would be against the rules when all you have to do is show the thread Ayanokouji aim dodging bullets to validate the voting count. Someone saying a character who has never aim dodged loses via being shot is a valid vote. The same applies to any other characters

 

[Nikoandretti]

Androids are frequently shown to view time as standstill when scanning things & making predictions. Markus predicted how to intercept a drones path while the drone appeared frozen, and scanned an officers badge and hack into their radios while the cops appeared as stationary. And again, Connor has used his precog in the middle of battle, such as dodging the bullets shot by Simon on the rooftop, so it's not like he just stands there idol while predicting things

Can you provide the scan of Connor aim dodging because 2 of the members don’t seem to understand you need feats to back up claims. Are you in agreement Ayanokouji can aim dodge bullets without ever showcasing it in combat?

 

[Zefra3011]

Androids are frequently shown to view time as standstill when scanning things & making predictions. Markus predicted how to intercept a drones path while the drone appeared frozen, and scanned an officers badge and hack into their radios while the cops appeared as stationary. And again, Connor has used his precog in the middle of battle, such as dodging the bullets shot by Simon on the rooftop, so it's not like he just stands there idol while predicting things

that's more convincing, thanks.

Just to clarify, based on what he makes said prediction? Based on the most logical scenario? And did he ever failed to do so?

EDIT: btw can't this be calced to have some sort of high Perception Speed time frame?

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

that's more convincing, thanks.

Just to clarify, based on what he makes said prediction? Based on the most logical scenario? And did he ever failed to do so?

The androids seem to make predictions off of the scenario most likely to happen, calculating what's most likely to work and what won't off shear mental calculations. They've never been inaccurate, but Connor can mess up, as while Connor has never messed up how the opponent will respond, it is still possible for him to make a mistake that messes up his pre-calculated situation. This happens by the player messing up the QTEs which gives Connor a completely diffrent outcome

 

[XxZetsuxX]

scanned an officers badge and hack into their radios while the cops appeared as stationary.

This video here, The character itself also appears as frozen while analyzing things too

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Also it requires some sort prep time these 2 videos you showed as he does it before the battle (Kinda?) begins

 

[Zefra3011]

The androids seem to make predictions off of the scenario most likely to happen, calculating what's most likely to work and what won't off shear mental calculations. They've never been inaccurate, but Connor can mess up, as while Connor has never messed up how the opponent will respond, it is still possible for him to make a mistake that messes up his pre-calculated situation. This happens by the player messing up the QTEs which gives Connor a completely diffrent outcome

I thought about this scenario then, assuming Ayanokouji aim dodges said bullets, can't Connor predict his next dodges too after he gains info on how Ayanokouji aim dodges?

 

[Zefra3011]

This video here, The character itself also appears as frozen while analyzing things too

that's because it only scales to his perception speed, it's just how fast he gains informations.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I thought about this scenario then, assuming Ayanokouji aim dodges said bullets, can't Connor predict his next dodges too after he gains info on how Ayanokouji aim dodges?

Koji can outpredict his actions lol

 

[XxZetsuxX]

that's because it only scales to his perception speed, it's just how fast he gains informations.

Then nvm

 

[Zefra3011]

We should see how fast they can predict stuff but both pages don't have any reference for it so... gg

At least the world slows down compared to how fast Connor process scenarios, no idea about Ayanokouji.

@XxZetsuxX if you proceed to show me that feat you know I disagree about I'm gonna kick your ass (EDIT: unless it has been accepted on the profile, in that case you are all good)


I'm leaning to vote for Connor as for now but don't count it, I'm still unsure.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

What is Connor starting move btw?

Would he really start with simulations when he has a gun?

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

What is Connor starting move btw?

Would he really start with simulations when he has a gun?

He usually starts with precog, but the thing is, he rarely uses it in the middle of battle, typically just at the start. He's not against using it mid-battle, but it's kind of rare unless he's getting extremley pressed, such as in the battle with the stripper androids where he was loosing and had to use some precog to help him out

 

[XxZetsuxX]

He usually starts with precog, but the thing is, he rarely uses it in the middle of battle, typically just at the start.

Ok, I believe Koji has a chance at this, He has outsmarted a supercomputer of sorts

His feat against Arisu, Koji was outpredicting a supercomputer at chess

Chess grandmasters can predict 15-20 moves or so of the opponent, Supercomputers can predict more

I'm not sure if this can be applicable in this case?

He's not against using it mid-battle, but it's kind of rare unless he's getting extremley pressed, such as in the battle with the stripper androids where he was loosing and had to use some precog to help him out

The thing is, If he lets Koji get near him it's done XD

Koji has Class 5 LS and more skill, So i assume it would be over in a instant if he doesn't use it

 

[Catzlaflame]

@Nikoandretti

That’s not how it works. If someone tells you that they disagree with your points, and wish to be added to the vote count, you are obligated to do that… even if they’re vote doesn’t align with what you believe.

This is especially a problem because you are openly acknowledging his disagreement and knowingly refusing to count it. This is considered vote manipulation which we do not allow by any means.

Consider this an unofficial warning. Do not do that again. Ive added @XxZetsuxX ‘s vote to the OP.

 

[Nikoandretti]

@Nikoandretti

That’s not how it works. If someone tells you that they disagree with your points, and wish to be added to the vote count, you are obligated to do that… even if they’re vote doesn’t align with what you believe.

This is especially a problem because you are openly acknowledging his disagreement and knowingly refusing to count it. This is considered vote manipulation which we do not allow by any means.

Consider this an unofficial warning. Do not do that again. Ive added @XxZetsuxX ‘s vote to the OP.

Im still learning how this website works which is why I asked a mod about counting votes before hand and was reffered to the rules. I’m not against counting the vote it just didn’t understand the guys using reasoning never showcased

I was sent this portion that said “The winner will be determined by the side having better constructive arguments, rather than one-word/one-sentence votes, which will be disregarded. However, one-word/one-sentence votes agreeing with another member's reasoning will be accepted as valid votes.”

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I didn't exactly give a one setence vote

And i already explained it to you how the character's ANPR works

 

[Nikoandretti]

I didn't exactly give a one setence vote

And i already explained it to you how the character's ANPR works

I was focused on the “the winner will be determed by the side with better constructive arguments”. If I still have to count your vote regardless that was my mistake. I was led to believe only canon feats can be used. It’s not that serious to me to vote manipulate

 

[RoggerReggor]

the Burden of proof is on you to actually showcase Ayanokouji using the exact skills you are referring to. If this was Douji Kodama it wouldn’t be a problem because as shown here, there is actual proof of him doing it and not using a different feat to say “because he did this he should be able to do this” that’s not how prediction feats work. A feat is completing something

That's just how prediction works. You are yet to prove that shooting a bullet wouldn't require you to perform an arm movement

Comparing aim dodging to breathing oxygen is wild man

I am not comparing both, and that wasn't the point. My exact point is that you can assume that Ayanokouji can survive in breathing another air even though that would be an assumption according to your dictionary, so you shouldn't really discard any reasonings for just the reason of them being assumptions.

No I read the thread. The thread was redone and nothing in it included anything about him aim dodging. The first thread he lost due to a gunshot. That’s what I’m talking about. The 2nd thread has no proof of it either

I re-read the thread as well. And turns out... Ayanokouji's AnPr wasn't even upgraded to this level around this time, like the justification for his AnPr was legit "Read Ryuuen's and Nanase's moves.".

Mid tiers in cote are Albert, Housen etc. manabu having martial arts would scale higher since he would attack weak points no differently than Kouji would and he has a statement from Kouji himself that Manabu could one shot him in the LN after the Suzune/Manabu situation

Housen scales above Manabu. Pressure Points assumption or not.

Legit go read the light novel statement, and it mentioned that even though Manabu was a martial artist, he would lose against Housen.

Manabu being able to one-shot Ayanokouji is false (even more so when you realize that he legit has a statement of Ibuki's attacks leading to a concussion in Year 1 Volume 4.5). Tsukishiro legit attacked Ayanokouji on the throat, and before, around the solar plexus (which is a more lethal spot than the point Manabu was attacking) and couldn't injure Ayanokouji.

Predicting punches and kicks or upscaling from predicting "volleyball trajectories" (which can legit be done by a volleyball player) do not equal to predicting bullet trajectories imo.

Predicting trajectories of a volleyball is more difficult, because a ball cannot pierce through air like a bullet but rather experiences natural forces such as Magnus effect and stuff as well (meanwhile a bullet just goes into a straight path). Except for a volleyball being slower, if a character predicted trajectory before the volleyball

Pulling a trigger is a much smaller movement than a punch's or a kick's or a volleyball swing's movement.

Fallacy.

Ayanokouji doesn't predict using initial movements. He just predicts a person's movements along with the time at which they will do that. He will just predict when does Connor shoot.

Let's just hunt Zetsu for debating that in the thread. I legit tried to illustrate it using the conventional AnPr as that, not as if Ayanokouji would use the same method.

Assuming Ayanokouji can predict the bullet's trajectory, Connor has an even better Precognition than Ayanokouji from what I've seen and can predict Ayanokouji's dodging movement and shoot another bullet to there which would catch Ayanokouji off guard and get him shot.

Again, I would prefer if you don't compare Ayanokouji's ability to Connor, at least when you compare Ayanokouji's AnPr to conventional AnPr. I mean, that way, Ayanokouji's AnPr would of course be way lower than Connor's abilities.

We should see how fast they can predict stuff but both pages don't have any reference for it so... gg

Why does timing matter for Ayanokouji? He doesn't predict attacks while they are happening, like when their movement has been initiated but rather before the attacks even happen.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

This thread seems to have no chill, looks interesting and might check it later

 

[RoggerReggor]

Well, one thing which I can understand and can be worth debating from someone's end would be, does Ayanokouji accurately predict bullet trajectories? Like yes, it's common sense that Ayanokouji does predict hand movements, but after that, how will he predict bullet trajectories and move accordingly?

So just addressing that. He does have the feat in Year 2 Volume 7 where he predicted the trajectory of a bullet.

The only is that the predictions weren't accurate, and that was because there was a problem in the manufacturing of the gun, and there being single-millimeter discrepancies in the gun which shifted the trajectory of the gun a few centimeters away from where it was intended.

And he does have bullet trajectory prediction feats, he even suggested that the gun Housen picked up didn't have any problems or "single-millimeter discrepancies", and that's why Housen could hit the target.

So yeah, he can predict the hand movements (already said), and bullet trajectories as well. The one time he fails in doing that, it's quite literally the gun's fault lol. And I am pretty sure Connor doesn't use a mis-manufactured gun for sure.