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good night
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Asta vs Kaidou
- Thread starter Robo432343
- Start date
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I mentioned Thunder Bagua once, and simply said he has better versions of it as well to use if needed. In fact, he uses Thunder Bagua to dodge all the damn time so thats a terrible argument.
Kazuma_kuwabara
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The fact that is illegal for him to win via blitzing via speed rules
PD: I just wake up and I have not read the whole thread yet, because I just saw 3 pages right now, holy moly
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What? Wdym
Kazuma_kuwabara
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Speed Equalization Rules and Assumptions
Any speed equalized match, in which a major reason a character loses is due to having a disadvantage against some speed value they usually wouldn't have a disadvantage against, may not be added to profiles.- As a result, winning a speed equalized match against a faster opponent due to a speed boost so large that it blitzes the opponent will not be added.
If Kaido is "blitzing" when this Asta is MFTL while Kaido is only FTL, and his reasoning for what I am still reading is "Kaido Blitz or Kaido can precog and dodge because he can precog "attacks thousands of times faster" while becoming faster" not valid at all, as Asta is just faster and even higher when transforming
Kazuma_kuwabara
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At worst is "Asta can blitz" and "Kaido nulls heat resistance"
Being able to precog his attacks could still be valid but Asta would be like 100 times faster (transformations and Zetten, this is just an aproximation ) and he is the only one who can become faster with AD
So I pass, this is almost like Luffy vs Asta in a sense, the result should be almost the same edit: And I will return later, like I said, just wake up and I read 2 pages, not all the thread because I have things to do
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Those types of gaps don't carry on from one key to another in the same character, much less to different characters.
Luffy and other Kenbu users in the series have without a doubt been blitzed by things not even close to being 2000x faster than them meanwhile buso is an unquantifiable amp, it isn't accepted as a 4x for every single user, regardless if their haki is comparable or better than Dressrosa Luffy's Buso AFAIK.
Otherwise the other side could argue Devil Union is more than a 300x amp as it gives Liebe's full power to Asta, meanwhile Devil Bargain was already a 300x amp using less power, but again, tier gaps that don't come from accepted multipliers don't transfer from one character/key to the other (and before BC goons read this and say 300x is accepted, it's accepted for the Triad, not for Asta, he simply scales there, it's different from having it himself).
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Kaido can use it, if he mostly wins because of them then the match won't get added to profiles (because Asta naturally is faster)
Kazuma_kuwabara
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I did not even though about having a x300 amp on that part
I am not a true goon I guess, I will delete the account
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Any proof?
Because that’s never been a thing unless your talking movement speed vs movement speed
A child reacting to enels movements is one of them
So Zetten is the only thing he has which isn’t a one shot and can be dodged
While kaido has boro breath aoe that one shots, dura negs that could fatally damage him or one shot, other con haki attacks that could basically one shot gear 4 Luffy and then magma kaido which just being near him would vaporize asta
It being a blitz stomp isn’t true when asta can use precog, kaido will just be much faster
Kaido also has the much higher lifting strength and can immobilize him with his jaw and shot a boro breath even if he gets tagged by doing it
Kaido’s only wincon isn’t “blitzing” that’s only for very few moves that are available
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What?
When it comes to movement speed vs movement speed, we have examples like when Sanji completely statued Oven without being even 2x faster, Luffy blitzed Doffy without being 2x as well, so did Zoro against Apoo, Kaido against Kin'emon with Thunder Bagua, etc, there are just too many examples of these small gaps being enough to blitz.
With the above explained, let me say this again: Luffy's feat against Kuro and Aisa's feat against Enel don't mean OP characters can deal with attacks thousands of times faster than them, again, that's not how such gaps are treated in the wiki, a slower character having enough reactions to evade an attack thousands of times faster doesn't mean a faster character has the same speed gap for their reactions (as shown above, where attacks not even 5x faster were enough to completely blitz), such a thing only happens when the gaps come from accepted multipliers, which Kenbu and Buso don't have.
Let me see if I got it right, you're saying Kaido has multiple ways to one shot, from AoE to dura neg to "being near would vaporize Asta", as well as being "much faster" (others in the thread were straight up saying Kaido should pretty much blitz) and all Asta can do is a non one shot that can be dodged.
Yeah, it's not a blitz stomp at this point, it's a plain and simple stomp from what you're saying.
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so you're telling me that kaido gets speed amps through his multipliers? Asta doesn't get multipliers, how's that fair? 
yh thats a stomp, if not completely inconsistent. close this
yh thats a stomp, if not completely inconsistent. close this
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- Thread starter
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if what monkey is saying is true
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Robo, get rid of the speed multipliers and make speed like completely equal. Or we could have Asta's 478c value? 
ReaperAndBlues
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Well, if we unequalize speed, Asta blitzes Kaido into the floor. Asta's base speed is faster than Kaido's fastest blitz by assumably at least 100 times, if not a few hundred. Not even considering the fact that Asta has two blitz amps on top of that.
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then it's a speed blitz. thats a stomp
ReaperAndBlues
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Of course not. This is a stomp either way. Either Kaido blitzes Asta (which is illegal), while speed is equalized (while Asta for some reason can't), or Asta blitzes the entire One Piece verse with unequal speed in base.
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i promise you, look on Kaido's speed stats rn. You'll see the occasional "higher" or "far higher" on top of his ftl+ feat. he's getting speed amps
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This is literally just wrong, luffy did not blitz doffy because his observation haki still reacted, sanji movement speed statued oven yes, but oven still knew that it was an outsider who did the feat... Just because one can react and precieve, doesn't mean they can move fast enough to do anything, literally shown with sandersonia.
I never ever said obs Haki amps your movement speed so idk what you're even trying to say
it's not a stomp if Asta can attack back with ranged slashes and deal damage like what?
Kaido CAN blitz but he doesn't have to is what I'm saying, he can just make himself faster
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Kaido does not have speed multipliers with his movement speed ampsso you're telling me that kaido gets speed amps through his multipliers? Asta doesn't get multipliers, how's that fair?
Explain how it's wank when its accepted and such and there not being any anti feat
If a kid can precieve lightning speed which is many times faster than her, why wouldn't an even better obs Haki user be able to precieve someone much faster than them? Especially when it's consistently been shown that they can with Doffy vs Gear 4, Sandersonia with Luffy and Luffy with Kaido
There's no wank at all...
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im sorry, how is he blitzing him if he has no speed multipliers with MS amps? you said before he get's faster somehow
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The same way how Asta can blitz people relative to him with his Far higher amps like zetten or Partial Devil Union
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like there's no way around 5 people misconstrued my argument
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he does NOT get those amps. they literally dont exist, we had them removed long ago
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They still apply in vs matches, if Asta can blitz people relative to him with speed boosts, then in speed equal he can do the same with other characters when he's using them
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they're unquantifiable but if they're there then is what it is
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does Kaido have quantifiable speed boosts that give him the capability to "blitz asta"
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I have serious doubts if the problem is coming from my English or the reading comprehension of the other side, but something definitely isn't lining up here at all between what I am saying (or at least trying to) and the answers I am getting.
Like, can a 3rd party at least say if they got what I said?
Like, can a 3rd party at least say if they got what I said?
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idk if you gas lighting or not but you can't simply ignore this on the haki page
That's all I've been talking about, that kaido with observation haki will be able to precieve him as nearly every obs Haki users are able to do when fighting someone much faster than them
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right. Asta and Yami do the same thing with ki and zetten. Huh, they really are alike in that sense
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oh wow, embed fail is so embarrasing
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are u serious? even after editting, i give up
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obs Haki and ki sensing are a little different overall tho, with how they actually act and what the effects are for the information they get
But initial observation haki, is able to make a normal child sense and precieve the speed of Lightning moving through gold
For example you gaining obs haki would be able to increase your average human senses to be able to see lightning moving through the air (of course that doesn't mean you can move fast enough even if you can see it's movements, basically everything around you slows down... Even yourself but not your senses like this)
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Am I being accused of gas lighting now? Like, for real?
And where exactly did I ignore that? I am saying, from the very very start, that Kenbu's amp is unquantifiable, it doesn't scale to thousands of times because of Aisa, or because of Luffy, or whatever.
Bro who cares about what you're talking about? My first posts were for Kachon, then you started to bring a lot of related shit to what I was talking about alongside missing or just straight up ignoring the entire explanation I provided about the point I was making before you even replied to me.
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Drag, absolutely no one is trying to quantify Kenbun's amp. We're giving these examples of where it has been shown to bridge insane gaps so simply say that it's a huge amp, in the say way folks are saying for Ki or Zetten.
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Asia's kenbu's amp scales unquantifiable above lightning speed with initial observation haki and Kaido is < with adv observation haki
With kachon you were spreading misinformation about observation haki and named feats where they got "blitzed" even tho they still was able to react and precieve
You literally said this with no proof at all unless your talking about their movement speed and not about observation haki
Also no... stop, simply wondering why you're behaving that way by saying that only my view was the problem
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With Kenbu? Maybe that was the case and I misunderstood you, but you straight up claimed that Luffy had 4x durability with Buso, and therefore the same 4x would apply to Kaido:
"Based on what? Luffy's Buso was able to block a cutting/piercing attack that was 4x stronger than him with nothing more than coughing blood. Kaidou who has stronger Haki than him will not get cut through"
(The above was in response to a 6,4x gap from Asta, btw) The kind of logic used in the bolded part is what I've been explaining isn't valid (in case there's still some doubt about it).
As for the Kenbu part:
"This is a Luffy 1000 chapters removed from the version of himself that through sheer instinctive reactions could defend against not just a normal speed blitz, but someone who at the time was 2596.8x faster than him. Kaidou is able to blitz this dude consistently over, and over, and over, and over again, just with his Baguas."
Like, call me crazy if you want, but this screams "Luffy can react to 2596x faster opponents but can't react to Kaido!" to me, in case I really got this part wrong I apologize, but I hope you can see where my concern was coming from.
Yeah bro, Kaido is FTL+, we know he scales above lightning speed with Kenbu, this much didn't add anything.
Okay, let me ask this simple question, do you know what "react" means? I am not asking you about the dictionary definition, I am asking if you know what "react" or in other words what a "reaction" is in the context of this forum, to quote our speed page:
"Reaction speed is the speed at which a character can react to an event or action. This usually only grants a short movement upon reaction, whereas several movements at the same speed switch it to combat speed. For example, let's say that character A shoots at character B with a gun and character B dodges. That is reaction speed."
If a character didn't dodge, block or do anything at all against an incoming attack they were in fact unable to react and therefore blitzed.
The funniest part is that you're accusing me of spreading misinformation, so can you explain why the feats I named (Sanji blitzing Oven, Kaido blitzing Kinemon with TB, G4 Luffy blitzing Doflamingo and Zoro blitzing Apoo) are indexed as being blitzes in the profiles? Literally the 4 feats are indexed as "blitzed" or "speedblitzed", how am I spreading misinformation if I am using what the damn profiles themselves say?
Bro who cares if their Kenbu gets blitzed if their body can't keep up to even try defending? And if you want a Kenbu-blitz, Sanji blitzed Queen's Kenbu as did Kaido vs Luffy in Udon (although in this case there's a speed gap of 20x).
Sure, my bad on that end.
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