Asta vs Ichigo

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

Ok can I get the scan mana = Soul?

No, Mana is more fundamental than the soul and more difficult to interact with, and generally affecting mana affects the soul as a consequence ,For example :

• Magna having to study the applications of mana to be able to form her chain magic that binds her soul to that of her opponent (ch 291/2 )
• Negative mana corrupting the souls of Licth and Patry (Ch 196 and 204)
• Imperial sword absorbing fragments of someone's soul absorbing their mana (sword of the wizard - movie )

 

[Excellence616]

So you are all saying that Bleach Characters can't Soul Crush BC Characters because Magic=Soul and it is difficult to interact with?

 

[Bastolan27]

So you are all saying that Bleach Characters can't Soul Crush BC Characters because Magic=Soul and it is difficult to interact with?

But that shouldn't prevent Hollow's Corruption Type 2.

 

[Excellence616]

But that shouldn't prevent Hollow's Corruption Type 2.

Nah, Bleach Characters can interact with Abstract so it doesn't really matter. Corruption would still work.

 

[Joshyyy_64]

So you are all saying that Bleach Characters can't Soul Crush BC Characters because Magic=Soul and it is difficult to interact with?

I don't think that's what we were trying to argue. EldermadeDityJon was trying to argue reiryoku and mana weren't going to be equalised. (it's being equalised anyway)
Because of that, it's a wincon for Asta because he's able to cancel out his opponent's attacks.

On to soul crush, no, I'm not convinced soul crush is killing Asta at all. Reiatsu has been mimicked in BC pretty well if I'll be honest. It's all just aura which Asta can't perceive at all.

Corruption? Now this changes things. Asta has been shown to nullify corruption on others, i'm certain it's not affecting him either.

I also dont know how anyone is interacting with Asta's soul. Because his is one that can't rlly be maniuplated. Lucius for example can't do anything to it because he's surrounded by AM.

 

[Joshyyy_64]

Reading more on the page of corruption, says it needs a strong will to just not be effective on the opponent.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

So you are all saying that Bleach Characters can't Soul Crush BC Characters because Magic=Soul and it is difficult to interact with?

No.

Just equalizing Reiryoku and Mana so this match up can happen.

 

[Excellence616]

I don't think that's what we were trying to argue. EldermadeDityJon was trying to argue reiryoku and mana weren't going to be equalised. (it's being equalised anyway)
Because of that, it's a wincon for Asta because he's able to cancel out his opponent's attacks.

Both Power System aren't similar so they can't be equalized or this battle will go to Fun and Games.

On to soul crush, no, I'm not convinced soul crush is killing Asta at all. Reiatsu has been mimicked in BC pretty well if I'll be honest. It's all just aura which Asta can't perceive at all.

Mimick in Black Clover but not like Bleach. You see verse like Hunter X Hunter (Nen Aura or Bloodlust) and One Piece (Conqueror Haki) are the same. They have effect like Reiatsu but what makes Reiatsu Crush different is that it has an actual effect. It can cause vibrations, Crushing and destroying effect and erasing effect like Transcendent beings like Aizen and Hollows like Starrk, enough to be an element like Yamamoto flames. So they mimick only the surface.

Corruption? Now this changes things. Asta has been shown to nullify corruption on others, i'm certain it's not affecting him either.

Explain above. He wouldn't.

I also dont know how anyone is interacting with Asta's soul. Because his is one that can't rlly be maniuplated. Lucius for example can't do anything to it because he's surrounded by AM.

Above.

 

[Bastolan27]

Reading more on the page of corruption, says it needs a strong will to just not be effective on the opponent.

• Corruption (Type 2: which causes Poison Manipulation/Power Reduction/Death Manipulation) (Hollow's passive existence/Reiryoku is innately poisonous to those without antibodies against them, just being around them causes these people's souls to erode away and die, as well as causing their spiritual powers to decrease[10])

Strong willpower may resist it depending on the verse the corruption is from. In Bleach, willpower has nothing to do with it. The only way to survive it is by having antibodies or constantly receiving energy from a race that has antibodies; there's no other way to bypass it.

 

[Excellence616]

By the way never mind the equalization because ichigo has an advantage With AP, Skills and Intelligence. Ichigo has battle far older opponents with more experience. With Verse equalization Ichigo would power null Anti Magic since he is already superior in AP.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Not gonna lie I’m starting to be convinced that mana (not magic) and reiryoku can be equalized given the arguments. Utilizing/having someone’s mana has been the same as using/having someone soul.

 

[Bastolan27]

How is Asta getting past Blut or Hierro? Blut provides a 5x increase in durability, and Hierro is

• Bodily Weaponry, Statistics Amplification, and Resistance to Bladed and Blunt Weaponry (Hierro is a Hollow technique that concentrates Reiryoku around the body[19], allowing the user to defend against blades and punches whislt enhancing their defense. The defense created by Hierro is hard enough to make ordinary attacks useless[20]. Hierro can also be used offensively, augmenting attack power and creating claws[21])

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Before I respond to arguments are we equalizing Reiryoku and Mana now?

 

[Bastolan27]

Not gonna lie I’m starting to be convinced that mana (not magic) and reiryoku can be equalized given the arguments. Utilizing/having someone’s mana has been the same as using/having someone soul.

If the mana you are referring to is Nature energy, then it can only be equalized to reishi, not reiryoku or reiatsu.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Nature energy?

 

[Bastolan27]

Like the mana in nature or in the environment, not the mana inside you.

 

[Joshyyy_64]

Both Power System aren't similar so they can't be equalized or this battle will go to Fun and Games.


Mimick in Black Clover but not like Bleach. You see verse like Hunter X Hunter (Nen Aura or Bloodlust) and One Piece (Conqueror Haki) are the same. They have effect like Reiatsu but what makes Reiatsu Crush different is that it has an actual effect. It can cause vibrations, Crushing and destroying effect and erasing effect like Transcendent beings like Aizen and Hollows like Starrk, enough to be an element like Yamamoto flames. So they mimick only the surface.

Explain above. He wouldn't.

Above.

Reiryoku and Magic power are dependent on the soul. We're not making this different power systems when they can clearly be equalised.

Patoli's soul and mind is corrupted: Black Clover chapter 197 and 198, reborn as a dark elf, grimoire also corrupted and lost.

Asta undoes the corruption, Black Clover chapter 200

Look at the officials

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Like the mana in nature or in the environment, not the mana inside you.

Both

Mana is a fundamental energy that exists everywhere. There’s nature mana, negative mana, and the personal mana inside everyone.

So I’m guessing it’s both Reishi and Reiryoku

 

[Bastolan27]

Reiryoku and Magic power are dependent on the soul. We're not making this different power systems when they can clearly be equalised.

Patoli's soul is corrupted: Black Clover chapter 197 and 198, reborn as a dark elf, grimoire also corrupted and lost

Asta undoes the corruption, Black Clover chapter 200

Look at the officials

Both

Mana is a fundamental energy that exists everywhere. There’s nature mana, negative mana, and the personal mana inside everyone.

So I’m guessing it’s both Reishi and Reiryoku

The problem is that Reishi, Reiryoku, Reiatsu, Magic (in Burn the Witch), and the power inside the Konpaku all come from the soul, but they each operate differently. There's always a clear distinction between them, as seen when Mayuri was surprised that Yhwach didn't absorb Reiatsu or Reiryoku, but absorbed the power inside the Konpaku.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

The problem is that Reishi, Reiryoku, Reiatsu, Magic (in Burn the Witch), and the power inside the Konpaku all come from the soul, but they each operate differently. There's always a clear distinction between them, as seen when Mayuri was surprised that Yhwach didn't absorb Reiatsu or Reiryoku, but absorbed the power inside the Konpaku.

Yeah. It’s just like Mana used to perform magic in different ways. Unfortunately the series didn’t differentiate the functions with different names like bleach. (Power that can be equalized with mana)

-Taking/altering a person’s mana takes/alters their soul as well (Reiryoku),
-Taking mana from the environment to add to your own (Reishi)
-Mana gets turned into magic power which develops and aura which has a pressure that can be felt (Reiatsu)
-Mana gets refined and used for magic (Magic in BtW)
-Converting life to power and so on…

See what I mean? Bleach just separate functions with names while BC has one name with many functions. The difference in names isn’t a valid counter argument against equalization because at the end of the day these are different series with different authors that go about the same things in different ways. Equalization is possible if the power systems are somewhat similar (not exactly similar) hence why I’m convinced that mana is just as fundamentally similar as the soul energy in bleach. And Asta affects the fundamental aspect of magic and not just magic. So can we proceed with the match based on the equalization?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The problem is that Reishi, Reiryoku, Reiatsu, Magic (in Burn the Witch), and the power inside the Konpaku all come from the soul, but they each operate differently. There's always a clear distinction between them, as seen when Mayuri was surprised that Yhwach didn't absorb Reiatsu or Reiryoku, but absorbed the power inside the Konpaku.

Don't forget Fullbringers can manipulate laws of physics by manipulating Souls in the Objects but they can't manipulate Soul reapers or any other souls from hollow or Quincies Despite they are also souls technically.

Also I was re reading BTW found that Magic is seperate energy systems which Dragons & witches/Wizards possesses. Even some humans had that.

It's used for many things
Even Newspaper in BTW is uses Magic.

 

[Bastolan27]

Before anyone asks, I received assistance from ChatGPT because I wasn't going to spend half a day writing all of this.​

Why They Shouldn't Be Treated as the Same​

1. Distinct Concepts:
   • Reishi: Represents the foundational substance of the spiritual realms (Soul Society and Hueco Mundo). Objects, including human souls, are made of Reishi.
   • Reiryoku: Signifies the raw spiritual power or energy possessed by a soul. It is the inherent strength that individuals can harness.
   • Reiatsu: Reflects the pressure of spiritual energy emitted by an individual. It is a measure of one's spiritual presence and strength.
2. Functional Differences:
   • Reishi and Reiryoku: Work in tandem, where Reishi provides the material (spirit particles), and Reiryoku supplies the power. This combination is essential for techniques used by characters like Quincies, who manipulate Reishi with their spiritual power.
   • Reiatsu: Focuses on the force or pressure of spiritual energy. It is not about material creation but emphasizes the intensity and magnitude of one's spiritual power.
3. Role in Abilities:
   • Quincies: Utilize Reishi and Reiryoku for their unique abilities. They absorb Reishi from the surroundings and combine it with their Reiryoku to craft weapons and perform various techniques.
   • Reiatsu: Reflects an individual's strength and capabilities. High Reiatsu indicates a powerful spiritual presence, influencing the effectiveness of defensive and offensive maneuvers.
4. Narrative Significance:
   • Bleach Universe: The distinction among Reishi, Reiryoku, and Reiatsu is integral to the Bleach narrative. Characters' understanding and mastery of these concepts contribute to their development and the complexity of spiritual battles.
5. Practical Implications:
   • Misunderstanding: Treating Reishi, Reiryoku, and Reiatsu as the same may lead to misconceptions about characters' abilities and the mechanics of spiritual energy manipulation.
   • Strategic Use: Characters in Bleach strategically employ Reishi, Reiryoku, and Reiatsu based on their unique properties, showcasing the importance of recognizing their distinct roles.

Analysis of Reishi, Reiryoku, Reiatsu, and Magic in "Bleach" and "Burn the Witch"​

1. Reishi (Bleach):
   • Definition: Spirit particles that form the basis of objects in Soul Society and Hueco Mundo.
   • Role: Building material for everything in the spiritual realms.
2. Reiryoku (Bleach):
   • Definition: Raw spiritual power or energy possessed by a soul.
   • Usage: Combined with Reishi for techniques by characters like Quincies.
3. Reiatsu (Bleach):
   • Definition: Pressure of spiritual energy emitted by an individual.
   • Function: Reflects the strength of one's spiritual presence and can be used defensively or offensively.
4. Magic (Burn the Witch):
   • Nature: In "Burn the Witch," magic is a supernatural force with various applications.
   • Role: Wielded by characters such as witches for combat, healing, and other mystical purposes.

Why They Shouldn't Be Treated as the Same​

1. Distinct Origins and Nature:
   • Reishi, Reiryoku, and Reiatsu: Originating from the spiritual realms in "Bleach," these concepts represent the material, power, and pressure of spiritual energy, respectively.
   • Magic (Burn the Witch): In "Burn the Witch," magic is a distinct supernatural force with its own rules and applications.
2. Functional Differences:
   • Bleach Concepts: Reishi and Reiryoku work together, while Reiatsu is about the force of spiritual energy.
   • Magic (Burn the Witch): Functions independently, serving various purposes like combat and healing.
3. Narrative Context:
   • Bleach: Understanding these concepts is vital for characters to harness their abilities and engage in spiritual battles.
   • Burn the Witch: Magic plays a central role in the storyline, with witches relying on its unique properties.
4. Cultural and Contextual Variances:
   • Bleach: Rooted in Japanese spiritual and supernatural traditions.
   • Burn the Witch: Blends Western and Eastern magical elements.

Understanding the Distinction: Reishi, Reiryoku, Reiatsu, and Konpaku​

Reishi, Reiryoku, and Reiatsu:

1. Reishi is the spiritual building material in the spirit realms, including Soul Society and Hueco Mundo [Bleach Wiki].
2. Reiryoku is raw spiritual power possessed by a soul, and it is combined with Reishi by Quincies to create various effects [Reddit].
3. Reiatsu is spiritual pressure, the energy that a being has stored within. It represents the amount of spiritual power exerted outwardly [Bleach Wiki].

Konpaku and Why It's Different:

1. Konpaku, as referenced by Mayuri in the context of Yhwach's Auswählen, likely refers to the spiritual entity within a soul. Mayuri's acknowledgment suggests that the power within Konpaku reacts uniquely to Yhwach's ability.
2. Mayuri Kurotsuchi's profound understanding of spiritual matters implies that he recognizes nuances in how Yhwach's Auswählen affects different components of spiritual beings.
3. Not treating Konpaku the same stems from its distinctive nature within the spiritual composition. Mayuri's emphasis on this distinction indicates that the power within Konpaku reacts uniquely to Yhwach's Auswählen, implying that its impact may vary compared to the broader categories of Reishi, Reiryoku, and Reiatsu.

Understanding the specific dynamics of Konpaku is crucial for comprehending the intricacies of Yhwach's Auswählen and its effects on different aspects of spiritual entities in the "Bleach" universe.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Equalization is mainly done for the sake of a match to happen anyways. And any slight difference isn’t exactly counter evidence cuz the SBA page uses the word “somewhat similar”.

There’s a verse on site with a fundamental energy system that is so… uh… “fundamental”… that it can be equalized with almost any power system on-site. apparently.

But yeah if no one considers the mana and the soul equalizable despite it being treated as the soul in Black Clover. No problem. Imma go eat cuz this match turns into a stomp in Ichigo’s favor.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Before anyone asks, I received assistance from ChatGPT because I wasn't going to spend half a day writing all of this.​

Why They Shouldn't Be Treated as the Same​

1. Distinct Concepts:
   • Reishi: Represents the foundational substance of the spiritual realms (Soul Society and Hueco Mundo). Objects, including human souls, are made of Reishi.
   • Reiryoku: Signifies the raw spiritual power or energy possessed by a soul. It is the inherent strength that individuals can harness.
   • Reiatsu: Reflects the pressure of spiritual energy emitted by an individual. It is a measure of one's spiritual presence and strength.
2. Functional Differences:
   • Reishi and Reiryoku: Work in tandem, where Reishi provides the material (spirit particles), and Reiryoku supplies the power. This combination is essential for techniques used by characters like Quincies, who manipulate Reishi with their spiritual power.
   • Reiatsu: Focuses on the force or pressure of spiritual energy. It is not about material creation but emphasizes the intensity and magnitude of one's spiritual power.
3. Role in Abilities:
   • Quincies: Utilize Reishi and Reiryoku for their unique abilities. They absorb Reishi from the surroundings and combine it with their Reiryoku to craft weapons and perform various techniques.
   • Reiatsu: Reflects an individual's strength and capabilities. High Reiatsu indicates a powerful spiritual presence, influencing the effectiveness of defensive and offensive maneuvers.
4. Narrative Significance:
   • Bleach Universe: The distinction among Reishi, Reiryoku, and Reiatsu is integral to the Bleach narrative. Characters' understanding and mastery of these concepts contribute to their development and the complexity of spiritual battles.
5. Practical Implications:
   • Misunderstanding: Treating Reishi, Reiryoku, and Reiatsu as the same may lead to misconceptions about characters' abilities and the mechanics of spiritual energy manipulation.
   • Strategic Use: Characters in Bleach strategically employ Reishi, Reiryoku, and Reiatsu based on their unique properties, showcasing the importance of recognizing their distinct roles.

Analysis of Reishi, Reiryoku, Reiatsu, and Magic in "Bleach" and "Burn the Witch"​

1. Reishi (Bleach):
   • Definition: Spirit particles that form the basis of objects in Soul Society and Hueco Mundo.
   • Role: Building material for everything in the spiritual realms.
2. Reiryoku (Bleach):
   • Definition: Raw spiritual power or energy possessed by a soul.
   • Usage: Combined with Reishi for techniques by characters like Quincies.
3. Reiatsu (Bleach):
   • Definition: Pressure of spiritual energy emitted by an individual.
   • Function: Reflects the strength of one's spiritual presence and can be used defensively or offensively.
4. Magic (Burn the Witch):
   • Nature: In "Burn the Witch," magic is a supernatural force with various applications.
   • Role: Wielded by characters such as witches for combat, healing, and other mystical purposes.

Why They Shouldn't Be Treated as the Same​

1. Distinct Origins and Nature:
   • Reishi, Reiryoku, and Reiatsu: Originating from the spiritual realms in "Bleach," these concepts represent the material, power, and pressure of spiritual energy, respectively.
   • Magic (Burn the Witch): In "Burn the Witch," magic is a distinct supernatural force with its own rules and applications.
2. Functional Differences:
   • Bleach Concepts: Reishi and Reiryoku work together, while Reiatsu is about the force of spiritual energy.
   • Magic (Burn the Witch): Functions independently, serving various purposes like combat and healing.
3. Narrative Context:
   • Bleach: Understanding these concepts is vital for characters to harness their abilities and engage in spiritual battles.
   • Burn the Witch: Magic plays a central role in the storyline, with witches relying on its unique properties.
4. Cultural and Contextual Variances:
   • Bleach: Rooted in Japanese spiritual and supernatural traditions.
   • Burn the Witch: Blends Western and Eastern magical elements.

Understanding the Distinction: Reishi, Reiryoku, Reiatsu, and Konpaku​

Reishi, Reiryoku, and Reiatsu:

1. Reishi is the spiritual building material in the spirit realms, including Soul Society and Hueco Mundo [Bleach Wiki].
2. Reiryoku is raw spiritual power possessed by a soul, and it is combined with Reishi by Quincies to create various effects [Reddit].
3. Reiatsu is spiritual pressure, the energy that a being has stored within. It represents the amount of spiritual power exerted outwardly [Bleach Wiki].

Konpaku and Why It's Different:

1. Konpaku, as referenced by Mayuri in the context of Yhwach's Auswählen, likely refers to the spiritual entity within a soul. Mayuri's acknowledgment suggests that the power within Konpaku reacts uniquely to Yhwach's ability.
2. Mayuri Kurotsuchi's profound understanding of spiritual matters implies that he recognizes nuances in how Yhwach's Auswählen affects different components of spiritual beings.
3. Not treating Konpaku the same stems from its distinctive nature within the spiritual composition. Mayuri's emphasis on this distinction indicates that the power within Konpaku reacts uniquely to Yhwach's Auswählen, implying that its impact may vary compared to the broader categories of Reishi, Reiryoku, and Reiatsu.

Understanding the specific dynamics of Konpaku is crucial for comprehending the intricacies of Yhwach's Auswählen and its effects on different aspects of spiritual entities in the "Bleach" universe.

Damn I should start Using this to argue
This sums it up.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I mean… nothing new was said. Infact there was no comparison to mana at all. It just summarized used info from websites with the title “why it can’t be equalized”.

Mana still does everything a soul, reishi, reiryoku and reiatsu can do. Magic is Magic.

 

[Bastolan27]

I mean… nothing new was said.

Mana still does everything a soul, reishi, reiryoku and reiatsu can do. Magic is Magic.

The problem is that even if they achieve similar outcomes, their functionality is different. As seen in Bleach, even though Reishi, Reiryoku, Reiatsu, Magic (in Burn the Witch), the power inside the Konpaku, and Fullbring achieve a similar outcome, they have different functionality. That's why, even though Fullbringers can control souls, they cannot control Reishi, etc. And even though certain people can absorb Reishi, etc., absorbing the power of a Konpaku is unheard of for anyone other than Yhwach. even between reiryoku there are slight differences like Hollow's reiroyoku, Quincy and shinigami

 

[Lynieryz]

...

Don't forget the main difference: Kishi ≠ Reishi

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The problem is that even if they achieve similar outcomes, their functionality is different. As seen in Bleach, even though Reishi, Reiryoku, Reiatsu, Magic (in Burn the Witch), the power inside the Konpaku, and Fullbring achieve a similar outcome, they have different functionality. That's why, even though Fullbringers can control souls, they cannot control Reishi, etc. And even though certain people can absorb Reishi, etc., absorbing the power of a Konpaku is unheard of for anyone other than Yhwach. even between reiryoku there are slight differences like Hollow's reiroyoku, Quincy and shinigami

Yeah good thing you mentioned even different races has different Reiryoku. I almost forgot about that.

 

[Bastolan27]

True, if I'm not mistaken, Fullbringers use Kishi to power their Fullbring while alive. We've seen them utilize their physical stamina to fuel their abilities. and it doesn't contradict my point here

That's why, even though Fullbringers can control souls, they cannot control Reishi, etc.

Because while dead, they cannot control the reiryoku and reiatsu of others

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Spoiler: Tried ChatGpt.

In the context of the anime and manga series "Black Clover," mana and magic are closely related but have distinct meanings:

• Mana: Mana is the spiritual energy that exists in all living beings and nature within the world of "Black Clover."It serves as the source of power for magic. Every individual has a mana pool, and the amount and quality of mana a person possesses vary.
• Magic: Magic is the manifestation of one's mana to perform supernatural feats. It's the practical application of manipulating mana to create various effects, such as spells and abilities.Different characters in "Black Clover" have affinities for different types of magic, such as fire, water, wind, etc.The type of magic a person can use is often tied to their mana attribute.

In summary, mana is the underlying energy, while magic is the utilization of that energy for mystical purposes. Characters tap into their mana reserves to cast spells, and the nature of those spells is determined by the individual's magical attributes.

In "Black Clover," the concepts of "soul" and "mana" are distinct from each other.

• Mana:As mentioned earlier, mana is the spiritual energy that exists in all living beings and nature. It is the source of power for magic within the world of "Black Clover."Every individual possesses a mana pool, and the quantity and quality of mana vary from person to person.
• Soul:The concept of the soul in "Black Clover" is more related to the individual's essence or life force. It represents the core identity and existence of a person.While mana is the energy used for magic, the soul is more intrinsic to the being itself, encompassing qualities beyond magical abilities.

In summary, mana is the magical energy used for spellcasting, while the soul represents the core essence and life force of an individual in the world of "Black Clover." They serve different purposes within the narrative of the series.

Yeah it works better.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

No, Mana is more fundamental than the soul and more difficult to interact with, and generally affecting mana affects the soul as a consequence ,For example :

Lucius wants to disagree with this. He literally states soul is more important for characters.

• Magna having to study the applications of mana to be able to form her chain magic that binds her soul to that of her opponent (ch 291/2 )

That's a spell yes it gives Soul based thing but never stated both are same. How TF you come to conclusions mana > Soul?

• Negative mana corrupting the souls of Licth and Patry (Ch 196 and 204)

Here is the thing. Take your time and understand. Soul with a malicious mana. Doesn't mean Soul is mana or mana is even deeper than Soul. Soul contains mana that's what I'm getting from it.

A Box is with full of tomatoes ≠ box is inside the tomatoes

• Imperial sword absorbing fragments of someone's soul absorbing their mana (sword of the wizard - movie )

It's been a while I watched the movie but I will ignore this. Feel free to send the scans I'm happy to evaluate.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

The problem is that even if they achieve similar outcomes, their functionality is different. As seen in Bleach, even though Reishi, Reiryoku, Reiatsu, Magic (in Burn the Witch), the power inside the Konpaku, and Fullbring achieve a similar outcome, they have different functionality. That's why, even though Fullbringers can control souls, they cannot control Reishi, etc. And even though certain people can absorb Reishi, etc., absorbing the power of a Konpaku is unheard of for anyone other than Yhwach. even between reiryoku there are slight differences like Hollow's reiroyoku, Quincy and shinigami

Are you sure you’re understanding what I’ve been saying?

i don’t think I mentioned anything about similar outcomes. Yes they have similar outcomes butI have been giving you similar functions all this time. Even the message you responded to directly talks about functions not outcomes, (unless you’re trying to strawman?)

The mechanics behind mana is similar to the mechanics behind most of those spiritual abilities combined. Black Clover simply doesn’t differentiate the functions into its own specific names like Bleach does. And mentioning extra mysterious abilities aren’t valid arguments against equalization otherwise 90% of the verse equalization won’t happen.

Look I don’t really care if you all agree/disagree but don’t misconstrue my point that’s all.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Lucius wants to disagree with this. He literally states soul is more important for characters.

Again Mana ≠ Magic. Our arguments are Mana = Soul. If Mana is the source of magic and Lucius states Soul is the source of magic. Do the math. Lucius agrees with it.

 

[Bastolan27]

Are you sure you’re understanding what I’ve been saying?

i don’t think I mentioned anything about similar outcomes. Yes they have similar outcomes butI have been giving you similar functions all this time. Even the message you responded to directly talks about functions not outcomes, (unless you’re trying to strawman?)

The mechanics behind mana is similar to the mechanics behind most of those spiritual abilities combined. Black Clover simply doesn’t differentiate the functions into its own specific names like Bleach does. And mentioning extra mysterious abilities aren’t valid arguments against equalization otherwise 90% of the verse equalization won’t happen.

Look I don’t really care if you all agree/disagree but don’t misconstrue my point that’s all.

I mean… nothing new was said. Infact there was no comparison to mana at all. It just summarized used info from websites with the title “why it can’t be equalized”.

Mana still does everything a soul, reishi, reiryoku and reiatsu can do. Magic is Magic.

When you are referring to what something does, you are more likely referring to the outcome than the functionality, thus my confusion. I'm not trying to strawman.

What I am saying is that the soul in Bleach is very different than the soul in Black Clover and not interchangeable; thus, the energies that come from it are too.

 

[Bastolan27]

The Soul in Bleach has different aspects that function uniquely compared to other verses. The various ways powers, all originating from the soul, interact serve as proof. In Bleach, any power is not interchangeable with any other. Some use Kishi, which is physical energy/matter (Ichigo can use it too), while others employ different types of spiritual energies that operate distinctively and are not interchangeable. The Konpaku (soul) in Bleach is a spiritual/biological body with many differences compared to other verses. Even a concept like names represents its own separate power while still being intricately tied to the soul.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Again Mana ≠ Magic. Our arguments are Mana = Soul. If Mana is the source of magic and Lucius states Soul is the source of magic. Do the math. Lucius agrees with it.

That's just Contradicts with these two statements.
When Mana makes a home in living creatures it turns into power. If you say Mana is soul then living creatures born without souls until they gets mana inside their bodies or they gets mana storage? Does it makes sense. No.
Wait a minute how TF Asta is alive without mana
No mana = No soul

Mana is something fundamental and invis- ible that floats in the air. When mana makes its home in a living creature, it turns into power that can influence other substances, and that's magic power. When magic power is refined even further, it becomes magic... I think that's how it goes. I'm sorry I can't explain it better.

Soul with Mana. If both are same there is no need to mention with.
Here is the thing.
it's clearly differentiates two things.

It's hard to type in mobile. I will reply tomorrow for any other arguments.

 

[Robo432343]

I guess I have to change this to asta vs orihime..

 

[Lynieryz]

If Mana is[Origin of the soul/stores the soul] > Soul; So how does Asta have a soul if he has no mana?

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

I guess I have to change this to asta vs orihime..

Or Orihime vs Nanatsu no Taizai...

 

[Robo432343]

Or Orihime vs Nanatsu no Taizai...

Orihime vs Elizabeth