Asta begins his martial artist training

[Epiccheev]

So, I did a few minor calculations on Garou's Accelerated Development, for reference.

Spoiler

He went for 7-B(13.822 Megatons) to 6-A(2.46 Petatons). 2.46 Petatons is 2460000000000000 tons. 13.822 Megatons is 13822000 tons. That's a difference of around... 177,977,137.896.

He then went from 6-A(2.46 Petatons) to 5-C(69.44 Exatons). 69.44 Exatons is 77772800000000000000 tons. Which is a difference of around 31,614.9593496 times.

I also did one for Asta's AD.

Spoiler

Asta's 7-B value is 8.83 Gigatons(because it's the only 7-B calc in the verse I see). His 6-C value is 26.5 Gigatons. Using the power of basic ass division, that gives us a growth rate of 3001.13250283 times.

Soooooo yeah. In case anyone wanted to know.

Technically Garou went from 7-B 13.822 (megatons) (the form that defeated Bang while sleeping and then woke up) to 6-C (5.4 gigatons) (the form that one-shot Platinum sperm) in a single fight. Then went from that 6-C(5.4 gigatons) to 6-A (2.46 petatons) (matched Sage Centipede) in a single fight.

I dunno about who has the faster speed growth tho. Garou went from being equal to Bang who was faster than Atomic Samurai who was mach 3550 to blitzing a 4x FTL foe like Platinum Sperm.
Asta starts at FTL in base, but can reach up to 60,000x FTL at peak. (dunno what's his biggest growth in a single fight tho.)

Not like it particularly matters here, since Garou can't grow faster to a blitz and neither can really go beyond 6-A.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Garou has RE from the first Key

I just saw the justification for it. It’s literally AD like Asta.

RE has to be alike a supernatural ability, similar to Doomsday (or garou’s monster form). While AD is just like a talent to grow stronger and learn new things faster.

 

[Kachon123]

So I am asking if it has been shown to move through or bypass Anti Magic energy that is reinforcing Asta's iron swords.

Is there proof that Anti Magic energy and Iron can stop shockwaves from passing through them? If not, I don't understand why he'd have to prove that they can. That's just the standard assumption.

 

[Tural2004]

Drop the association fallacy. AD and RE may be similar but they are different. His RE comes from monsterification and his AD is innate. His jump to 6-A was due to his RE which peaked before Saitama triggered his Monsterification again to keep evolving to 5-C.

Garou didn't become a monster in one go. He was slowly monsterizing from the beginning and that's why his AD and RE can be used as the same. He evolved until he become 6-A and it is not like Saitama did something special to make him 5-C. Being pushed to limits triggers his growth

 

[Recon1511]

Is there proof that Anti Magic energy and Iron can stop shockwaves from passing through them? If not, I don't understand why he'd have to prove that they can. That's just the standard assumption.

Also the shockwaves of the RASRF were pulverizing everything around him as well so even if it can't go through the sword they will land on Asta anyway

But that's just assuming anti magic and swords for some reason don't conduct the shockwaves and that's a BIG assumption

 

[Epiccheev]

Asta's evolution is not even that good in combat. He did not evolve at a level hundreds of times above his own Tier during the fight against Lucifero or Lucius.

He is like any other shounen mc, his evolution is ******* inconsistent. Sometimes a 3 month of training makes you 1000 times stronger, sometimes a 2 year of training can only increase the versatility of your transformations

This. Not even talking about Asta here, but i remember Naruto came back after 2 years of training with the one of the greatest ninjas Jiraya and all that he learned where 1.A technique to counter genjutsu that barely had any use 2. Do a slightly bigger variation of rasengan 3.Minor stat increase.

Meanwhile he trained for like 1 week with Kakashi and learned Rasenshuriken, a move his father a genius couldn't complete while alive and in 1 more week learned sage mode. then spent some time with Hachibi guy and learned chackra mode.

Garou also spent like since his childhood training with Silver fang to be able to easily solo average A-classes, then went on a dojo hunting trip to return even stronger and came back as low end S-class level. Then the Hero hunter story starts and we all know what happens to his growth rate then.

 

[Nierre]

Well all of Naruto's trainings had different reasonings behind them, so that doesn't really work.

 

[Epiccheev]

BTW I retract my vote for Asta. But I do NOT vote for Garou.

So, incon?

 

[azontr]

So, incon?

Uh yeah pretty much.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Asta's evolution is not even that good in combat. He did not evolve at a level hundreds of times above his own Tier during the fight against Lucifero or Lucius.

He is like any other shounen mc, his evolution is ******* inconsistent. Sometimes a 3 month of training makes you 1000 times stronger, sometimes a 2 year of training can only increase the versatility of your transformations

I’m just seeing this


Why are you using training as a basis for denying Asta’s growth in combat? Literally makes no sense. The growth is insane, there just isn’t fan calcs to justify that that Lucifero was thousands of times higher than Base Asta in the beginning of the arc. So I literally used his fight against Vetto since that’s clear. And I never mentioned Lucius because Asta trains for that.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Is there proof that Anti Magic energy and Iron can stop shockwaves from passing through them? If not, I don't understand why he'd have to prove that they can. That's just the standard assumption.

How is it my burden-

???

You all are the ones claiming it’s possible… so prove it.. or show how is that a “standard assumption”? The ability requires that it must touch the body of the target, and not just traveling through any medium to harm the target.

 

[Epiccheev]

As I said before. Asta has an AP advantage of over 1.6x and an upscale chain of ~ Dark Samurai Ichika > Ichika > Base Lucius > Lucifero. If Garou attempts to grab the sword with his bare hands. The sword will cut through the grab. I asked @DMUA a hypothetical question and they said that it is possible to one-shot with attacks hit in the right spots. It depends on the sharpness of the attack as well as the defense of the opponent. Even though has that rocky monster skin, Asta has cut through diamonds before. With AM he can enhance the cutting power of his sword as well. So with that on top of the fact that Asta has an upscale chain over his advantage, Asta will cut through Garou's hands if he attempts to hold it. If Garou uses both his hands to grab the fuller of the sword as shown on the scan @Kachon123 brought, Asta literally has another sword in his right hand or he can literally summon it into his other hand and begin fighting with two swords. There is also Asta's precognition preventing that from happening. Now let's go straight to that wall of texts.

Garou can close part of the gap immediately using Awakening Breath wich should be a ~2x Ap boost (considering it would allow Bang to fight and stall a stronger version of the Elder Centipede than the one he and Bomb where unable to beat even while using the dura neg combo moves from their martial arts.) plus a significant speed boost. Fair on the 2 blades point, but Garou legit only has to twirl his wrist (1) to shoot many circular shaped slashing shockwaves (2) as a counter(3), that i don't think Asta can fully block at all (4) due to the range and AOE it can instantly cover in a battle scenario. If Asta sees it coming with his precog best he can do is immediately back away before he can initiate it at all. Even then Garou can still deflect the blades with WSRSF wich has deflected (Bladed attacks, piercing bullets attacks,Blunt attacks from a bat that would end the fight if a single blow connected, dissipated liquid attacks from showerhead and iirc Bang even deflected lightning once assuming it hasn't been retconned.)

Not to mention even if both had comparable AD Garou would be growing more quickly due to being the one faced with difficulty, as Asta would have the AP advantage and be the one overwhelming at first.

Spoiler: OH AND UMM.... (YOU CAN IGNORE)

GAROU'S LS CONCERN (YOU CAN IGNORE)

I remembered when you said Garou's LS stems from breaking out of Sage Centipede's hold. Wasn't Sage Centipede stunned by the heroes that shot his face? therefore allowing Garou to open up a stunned SC's arms?

I don't think Garou scales to SC. The hold was softened and Garou simply moved his arms apart to escape. If not for that shot to SC's face from those heroes. He would've been held in place.

The shots only stopped it from eating Garou, it's fist remained closed with no indication of losening. Besides, Garou legit grew muscles to escape. There's 0 indication his grip losened (specially since the character attacking is like 9-A and would at best tickle him, not stagger. all it did was give Garou extra time to evolve.)

I know how skilled Garou is. I literally put a disclaimer in the argument that you read that Garou is skilled as **** in a hand to hand combat but it's a different story when it's a skilled swordsman vs a hand-to-hand fighter. A swordsman already has an advantage with weapons. Then you have Asta having miscellaneous abilities to supplement that on top of his skill. Garou possibly can't overcome all of that via sheer hand-to-hand skill.


There are some things in that wall of texts that I noticed such as Asta's resistance to precognition. Asta's got that ability from Assimilating Kiato's swordsmanship, which throws off senses and prevents his ki and mind from being read. It also lets Asta fight instinctively. Garou literally can't predict Asta's moves through his senses because Asta's movement patterns are unpredictable. Bioenergy is human waste, so unless Asta had Brazillian food for breakfast, Garou won't be sensing any bioenergy let alone using that to read Asta's moves. Asta's accelerated development applies to his skill and techniques.

So the people of the land of the rising sun are capable of reading Ki as stated by Yami early in the series. Now that I have explained Asta's skill chain. We know how Asta's skill level is in relation to people of the land of the rising sun. If we leave out times when Asta evolved his Ki reading over and over again across the series, his skill with precognition against others with precognition would look like this. Asta ~ Ichika > Yami >~ Kijin clan > Vetto.

Spoiler: Garou's Analytical Prediction Concerns

As for Garou's analytical predictions, there are two things want to speak my mind on. The least important thing that bothers me is how the hair-cutting feat is treated. The samurais all had each other's back and the flow of the hair was not in crazy motion. The hair strands showed a bit of uniformity and trying to guard while cutting at the same time.. This is only a minor concern you can ignore it even. The second thing is that hero being able to calculate ricochet route... umm.. wasn't he drunk fighting Garou? I mean, kudos to Garou for predicting the drunk man but he would've killed Garou if one of the shots he missed hit Garou's vitals. That shot he missed was intended to be an unpredictable shot. I guess that cost him. Asta has dealt with those types of things. Things that appear unpredictable, Asta's adaptation simply kicked in and he turned something unpredictable into predictable. but it's whatever I guess. Predicting moves by reading a person's life force seems more efficient than just trying to read a person's movements. The third thing I do care about is WHY SAITAMA??? Saitama's moves are literally the easiest to read regardless of his stats. There was no need to bring Garou reading Saitama into this because Saitama is literally predictable, even to Asta, even to us viewers. That fight literally explains that being skilled doesn't matter. And Saitama was holding back as you've said which makes the whole thing worse. Your whole argument is fine without Saitama. .

1.Garou also has a LOT of miscellanious powers on top of his h2h skill, as in his BS impossible martial arts i mentioned. There's even one that turns his attacks into multiple AOE slashing shockwaves the likes 2 swords would not fully block at speed equal. besides regen and a technique that will make him faster but not to the point of blitz from get go.

2. Best analytical prediction feat kiai ever tricked? I know it can get past supernatural precog by reading KI, wich is frankly more precise, but it still works on a very different mechanism from Garou's main prediction.

3. That's why i spread it to 33,333. Atomic Samurai is still unbeatable to them in sparring, who in turn is a character who spars and is rival to Bang, who Garou defeated while asleep, wich vastly lowers his skill. Golden Ball still did the feat drunk, wich is more power to him. Garou would still have to predict the ricochet routes almost as fast as he did to keep dodging it from all angles. Fair on Saitama, just to show he can use his AP to get past big speed/strength disadvantages even if the opponent is a brick. (Murata ruined this feat tho, it was so much cooler in the webcomic.)

We also don't actually know how Yami came around to soloing the clan since it is completely offscreen and Asta heavily doubts he did it, not even how much the difference between a serious Yami and Ichika is.

Most of this could've been more concise. I know Garou has good experience with other hand-to-hand fighters. I mentioned it. However, his experience with swordsmen is nothing compared to Asta's skill. You're even comparing a giant monster who copied an h2h technique to a swordsman. Did you understand what I was explaining in the previous post about Kenjutsu vs Taijutsu or you assumed that I said Asta out skills Garou in H2H and wrote a skill bible on my ass.

Anyway, I am more focused on the text I boldened. We know that both Spring Mustachio and Royal Ripper aren't as skilled as Asta is in swordsmanship and we know that Garou had to take damage to deal with those swordsmen. In those sorts of situations, another sword in their hand could've helped them. Luckily, not only is Asta more skilled than both those swordsmen, but Asta can also wield two swords.

In conclusion, Garou has amazing hand 2 hand-combat skills. Asta can never compare to that. However, Asta has his own amazing skill with a blade. A fighter with a weapon is always at an advantage over those without a weapon. However, those without a weapon can still beat those with a weapon if they develop skills to fight specifically against those weapon users. Garou has used damage transferal against swordsmen that are vastly inferior to Asta in skill. Garou's martial arts are used best against other Taijutsu fighters, not Kenjutsu because he always lets them damage him to deal with them.

I agree spring mustachio and Royal Ripper are no Astas, i just used them to show what is Garou's usual answer to fighting sword guys. But i also disagree Lucifero and Ichika can compare to Garou in the H2H department.
Lucifero does use H2H from time to time, but he's mostly a magic user and was much stronger than the 4 swordsman he was fighting. He definitely wasn't mainly keeping up through sheer H2H skill. he also lacks Analytical prediction and precog through Ki reading or defense against them. Plus was being an asshole and not taking them serious until Asta landed the first cut. (and he did not beat him alone at all.)
Ichika is better, since she's has a lot of base skill and precog, but her Taijutsu cannot compare to Garou's funky impossible techniques at all. Garou is filled with stuff that would be completely illogical anywhere else except for WSRSF and Awakening Breath. Not to mention she's mostly a swordfighter.
Still, i agree that his experience with H2H edges out Garou's experience vs sword users due to Ichika.

1. Asta has the AP advantage of 1.6x and he upscales into it (DU Asta ~ Black Samurai Ichika > base Ichika > base Lucius > Complete Lucifero) allowing his piercing/slashing damage (that he can further increase with Anti Magic) and the size of one of his swords (that he can keep growing) to easily tax out Garou's regeneration. Note: (I know you won't strawman this Epichevv, but whoever is reading this should not claim I am saying Asta one-shots. I am saying Asta keeps damaging Garou to the point his regen won't matter).


2. WSRSF's Shockwaves hasn't been shown to propagate through anything that isn't the body or rocks, let alone iron or supernatural condensed energy because those are the main makeup of Asta's swords and how he sharpens them and makes one of them grow.


3. Asta's swords can protect him from RASRF, because shockwaves haven't been shown to propagate through supernatural condensed energy, and should we really assume it can propagate through Iron? No. I personally believe it only propagates with direct contact with the body or nearby rocks.


4. Yes Asta can do all of the above before Garou's sizeable speed advantage hits. Asta also has his own AD, precognition, skill + instinctive reactions to keep up the advantage.


5. Fa Jin is in his next key so I won't worry about that. right?mjm,


6. He would look to finish things quickly.


7. Asta's Demon Slayer sword can act as a shield for the air slash. Asta also has the skills to deflect or dodge danmaku. Asta can just fly to avoid melee attacks too. One thing I forgot to mention is Asta's damage reduction, it's one of the skills from Kiato's swordsmanship which allows him to take minimal damage from a one-shot attack. Since Asta has the advantage with his upscale chain + Damage reduction, he should easily be able to take attacks from Garou's Awakening Breath.


TL;DR

Garou's shockwaves in this key can't travel through supernatural condensed energy let alone Iron unless shown. Garou's LS is sus but its whatever i guess. Nonetheless, Asta has the range advantage and AP advantage with a decent upscale chain, on top of his piercing damage (that he can further sharpen with Anti Magic Energy) to deal Garou severe damage* with his slashes and its enough for a decapitation too. Asta sense manipulation works on Garou because he mainly requires his regular senses to predict others. Asta also has skills (especially in a sword vs fist fight) and abilities like damage reduction to keep the advantage and survive. Asta's AD is arguably better than Garou's considering the fact that he can get thousands of times stronger in a single fight while Garou got thousands of times over the course of several fights, Asta can also improve his precognition and his techniques over time. Asta should eventually overtax Garou's regen or deal a heavy blow to win before the DU timer runs out.

These are the reasons why I believe Asta wins more often than not.

1. Already went over it, but Garou can close a decent part of it with Awaken Breath. and gain a slight speed advantage.

2.It should get through iron, considering EC's shell is metallic and Metal Knight wanted to use it as resource for his drones, not to mention it can travel through kilometers of it. (not to mention iron does conduct vibrations irl, no real reason to assume it would no sell them.) Fair point on supernatural energy, specially since Asta fully coats the blade in it, but i still think it would propagate through the solid parts, as it can go through great distances and even travels through skin and muscles to bone, so the solid base should still count as a reverb, even if slightly dampened by the energy. But if it doesn't convince you i guess we can agree to disagree.


3.Yes, imo. The blade isn't made out of condensed anti magic energy, only coated in it. i can't really give a definitive answer tho.

4.Azontr already compared their growth rates, and like i said, the one getting overwhelmed would grow faster, since more strain=more growth as far as AD is concerned. not to mention they are kinda capped at 6-A wich isn't particularly big and have slashing damage and dura neg wich makes them more even. (also, once 10 minutes are up Asta loses his Devil union, so Garou actually has the means to outlast in a stalemate scenario.)

5.Yeah, his growth to the next key is something that happens a few instants from this, in terms of skill speed and power, but since he's locked at this key's peak he can't evolve to the next form. the huge ass Fa Jin will only happen once he evolves, and the protoype close range one he possibly used vs Darkshine is just speculation

6.Garou can still keep him at bay and force him to pull back due to WICF's nature, and pull of devastating counters if he doesn't, not to mention WSRSF and his intial speed boost.

7.The slashes travel in tandem with Garou's wrist movements. Even with precog to start blocking he would need to move his hand and fully shield his entire body with the blades, not to mention this type of blocking would instantly put him on the defensive since Garou can spam it by simply rotating joints, wich is faster than swinging the sword. Can you give me some more context on how it works? (Since Garou should be able to copy it with a glance if it's a physical technique as opposed to directly involving using a sword.)

MY TLR is
I do still think there's more proof towards the shockwaves travelling through the sword than not, Garou's LS is legit, but not that relevant, he can lower the AP disadvantage substantially with Awakening Breath while getting a speed boost and will be the one closing the gap faster due to having a disadvantage first, can keep Asta at Bay with his WSRSF and WICF wich requires a lot more movement from Asta to block (if he can block it fully ) than his own to dish out. on top of other dura neg that requires him to not slip up even once and can end the fight in a counter if he goes full offense. Can also copy damage reduction instantly if it's a body related technique.

AD won't matter that much here since both are already at their peak and how they grow beyond is speculation and Garou can't blitz, but Garou can get an immediate boost to his speed that will help survive and can also grow in it just by pushing himself a.k.a the fight where he went from MHS+ to FTL in less than a second can lead to a good speed advantage.

Garou's Analytical precog also means he can get predict Asta, since the feat the 3 disciples performed is still more impressive than what has been directly shown for Asta. (not that i blame him, since the series focuses mostly on Ki precog after he learns it.) and the scaling chain of 3 disciples<Atomic Samurai=Bang<This garou will not be negged by Kiai until further notice, as ki reading is a massivel diferent mechanism than purely physical prediction (even if i can agree Asta's precog will be a pain for Garou if not for his other advantages being too much for Asta here.)

 

[Epiccheev]

This is actually a pretty good match where i had trouble deciding between both. It has been pretty fun debating between Garou's funky martial arts and Asta's precog and blade techniques. Depending on Arnold's answers to:
1. How Asta's damage reduction works and 2.What are the best pure Analytical prediction feats Kiai got through

I might change my vote from Garou to Incon. Since it's a pretty high diff win for both sides.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

snip

Might discuss this later today or tomorrow.

This AD/RE thing is pretty annoying, but I guess I can compromise with the fact that they are both at their peak and how they grow past is speculation.

I know that Kiato messes with Ki-based precognition, however, his moves also mess with physical senses. Asta, when they faced each other for the first time was like, "I can't sense his Ki, and it looks like he is messing with my senses too" then Kiato mocked Asta's skill and inability to keep track of his moves before Asta surpassed his limits and copied his moves in one try, Kiato missed a strike and Asta disarmed him. So since Garou uses his physical senses to predict... you see where im going? That's why I said Garou still can't predict Asta, especially now that Asta is far more skilled than Kiato rn.

This is actually a pretty good match where i actually had trouble deciding between both. It has been pretty fun debating between Garou's funky martial arts and Asta's precog and blade techniques. Depending on Arnold's answers to:
1. How Asta's damage reduction works and 2.What are the best pure Analytical prediction feats Kiai got through

I might change my vote from Garou to Incon. Since it's a pretty high diff win for both sides.

Oh, for the Damage Reduction, Asta mimicked Kiato's Dance Magic with his body and made it his own, and those moves were able to soften Vetto's blows which were capable of one-shotting both of them. Fast forward to the final arc, Asta could block Zetten blows that could nearly one-shot. How did I know they could nearly one shot him? Ichika out-skilled and landed one blow that nearly knocked Asta out. So Asta's damage reduction is pretty good especially now that he is far more skilled now than Kiato at the time.


As for Asta's best precognition? not sure why you'd need that but here are some of the top of my head. Asta is capable of reacting to danmaku, One time he blocked attacks that ricocheted off mirrors with his eyes closed, Once when pre-time skip Asta was protecting a crystal from fireball attacks, he was faced with extremely fast fireballs that disappeared at point-blank range, and appeared randomly elsewhere to hit the crystal, Asta adapted his precog to predict moves as unpredictable as that in under 2 tries and now he can block a barrage of them. Then there is stuff like predicting teleportation. That's pretty much what I remember rn.

 

[Epiccheev]

I mean like the best analytical precog he fooled with his sword technique, not his own.
But fair on the damage reduction. Garou can copy it if he Asta uses it.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I mean like the best analytical precog he fooled with his sword technique, not his own.

Oh he hasn’t fooled anyone with analytical precog. I’m just using logic to say that his moves would indirectly mess with Garou’s analytical prediction via sense manipulation not with his resistance to precognition. Cuz Garou uses his senses and not Ki like Asta.

 

[Epiccheev]

Hmmkay...
Also, just remembered Asta is in the middle of a training arc and about to learn a new ultimate move that will probably negate this emtire match in a few chapters

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Yeah, he already learnt Zetten. And Zetten is a one shot to near one shot move depending on how Asta wants to use it. He’s almost mastered it now. If only Tabata wasn’t on a break we would’ve seen him master it by now. And there might be more to come.

 

[Kachon123]

How is it my burden-

???

You all are the ones claiming it’s possible… so prove it.. or show how is that a “standard assumption”? The ability requires that it must touch the body of the target, and not just traveling through any medium to harm the target.

I have to proof that shockwaves can move through iron?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I have to proof that shockwaves can move through iron?

And Anti Magic (I can compromise with pure energy)

 

[Recon1511]

There is nothing to prove lol, they are shockwaves that travel through the air and the surface of whatever they collision with and if the sword and whatever material its made of doesn't have an stated characteristic that dissipates shockwaves then it's foolish to assume it does

 

[Kachon123]

And Anti Magic (I can compromise with pure energy)

Garou's shockwaves were able to go through Platinum.

You have to prove that anti-magic can stop shockwaves.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

“The shockwave will envelop Asta’s anti magic sword and somehow envelope Asta with it too”

me: how?

“Why not?”

me: but it’s a supernatural energy covering and spre-

“So?”

me: you have to prove it does. we can’t assume the shockwave would envelop the anti magic energy, the sword and envelop Asta’s body too.

“why can’t we assume it does? you have to prove it doesn’t or it does.”

Garou's shockwaves were able to go through Platinum.

You have to prove that anti-magic can stop shockwaves.

Platinum Sperm is not literally made of platinum and the burden of proof is on you since you said he will create shockwaves on Anti Magic Energy in the first place.

 

[Recon1511]

Platinum Sperm is not literally made of platinum and the burden of proof is on you.

Considering Golden Sperm was literally made out of gold it isn't a reach at all to say Platinum Sperm is made of platinum

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Considering Golden Sperm was literally made out of gold it isn't a reach at all to say Platinum Sperm is made of platinum

Fair enough

At least now we know why platinum sperm took a whole light structure of attacks from someone comparable to him without getting incapped

 

[Kachon123]

“The shockwave will envelop Asta’s anti magic sword and somehow envelope Asta with it too”

me: how?

“Why not?”

me: but it’s a supernatural energy covering and spre-

“So?”

me: you have to prove it does. we can’t assume the shockwave would envelop the anti magic energy, the sword and envelop Asta’s body too.

“why can’t we assume it does? you have to prove it doesn’t or it does.”

Copypasting the debate thus far isn't proving anything.

If there isn't anything stopping shockwaves from passing through the object, then why wouldn't it just go through? It's durability negation that works by sending shockwaves that have at least a hundred meters of range that keeps going until it turns whatever it hits and whatever it's connected to into dust.

If Asta tries to block Garou's RASRF with one of his swords, the shockwave would just continue from Asta's sword to his body and then to his bones.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Copypasting the debate thus far isn't proving anything.

Just did it incase you weren’t realizing how dumb this argument is.

If there isn't anything stopping shockwaves from passing through the object, then why wouldn't it just go through? It's durability negation that works by sending shockwaves that have at least a hundred meters of range that keeps going until it turns whatever it hits and whatever it's connected to into dust.

If Asta tries to block Garou's RASRF with one of his swords, the shockwave would just continue from Asta's sword to his body and then to his bones.

No, Bang and Bomb had to continuously keep form till the entire body was hit. It’s range is not hundreds of meters and you still haven’t proven it can be generated on anti magic energy

Try again.

 

[Kachon123]

Try again.

RASRF is a combo attack. After the attack was finished, the shockwave continued to spread through Elder Centipede's attack.

Quoting Bomb: "The shockwave is spreading through its entire body. That damn monster will be reduced to dust."

Read again.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

RASRF is a combo attack. After the attack was finished, the shockwave continued to spread through Elder Centipede's attack.

Quoting Bomb: "The shockwave is spreading through its entire body. That damn monster will be reduced to dust."

Yeah after they hit it’s entire body.

 

[Kachon123]

Yeah after they hit it’s entire body.

We see the shockwaves literally spreading what are you talking about?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

We see the shockwaves literally spreading what are you talking about?

I’m saying they hit the entire body which led to the shockwaves spreading to the entire body. A single hit won’t do that. So it’s range is not hundreds of meters until hundreds of meters have been touched by the attack.. it’s far less than that.

 

[Recon1511]

Does it really matter? Even if it was like 5 meters it's still more than enough to at least grace Asta lol

 

[Kachon123]

I’m saying they hit the entire body which led to the shockwaves spreading to the entire body. A single hit won’t do that. So it’s range is not hundreds of meters until hundreds of meters have been touched by the attack.. it’s far less than that.

It would still be several tens of meters.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

It would still be several tens of meters.

Yet Bang was in the center and didn’t get incaped until… Garou… touched… his actual body… y’know… like how the attack was intended before you began arbitrarily claiming it spreads through multiple mediums to hit its target’s body.

---

The shockwaves also moved from the ground to bomb’s proximity… yet it was only turning rocks to dust and not breaking Bomb’s bones even though the disintegrating rock and bomb share the same floor the shockwaves are spreading. Bomb didn’t even bother leaving his spot.

So yeah, the shockwaves are not going to bypass Anti Magic reinforced iron to break Asta’s bones.

And after all this you still havent shown the attack being capable of generating on condensed energy.

 

[Kachon123]

Yet Bang was in the center and didn’t get incaped until… Garou… touched… his actual body… y’know… like how the attack was intended before you began arbitrarily claiming it spreads through multiple mediums to hit its target’s body.

Because it does? If someone gets hit directly, it would spread through them.

So yeah, the shockwaves are not going to bypass Anti Magic reinforced iron to break Asta’s bones.

Nothing you said proved that. You still have to prove that Anti Magic can somehow stop durability negating shockwaves that turns the things it touches into dust. If you can not do that, then I have no idea why we would assume that it can.

 

[Popted2]

what's the vote count for both?

 

[Epiccheev]

Eh
At this point i'm changing my vote to incon since this is going nowhere is pretty close and there's no way to really know how dura neg vibrations would interact with anti-magic

 

[Nierre]

Why would anti magic even interfere with vibrations in the first place? Has it done something like that before?

 

[Kachon123]

Why would anti magic even interfere with vibrations in the first place? Has it done something like that before?

Literally my point. You can't just say that since shockwaves haven't passed through magic energy before, it can't.

It's a standard assumption that it can unless anti magic had actually done so before. You're the one who needs to prove that it can block dura neg shockwaves, not the other way around.

 

[Nierre]

Like - if it acted as a forcefield, then I could completely understand that (unless the vibrations can go through forcefields [that would also need evidence]), but otherwise that anti magic argument doesn't even hold any value here.