Assorted Lifting Strength Discussion Thread

[Jasonsith]

As topic. Assorted lifting strength discussion thread.


Featured topics:

1. Does throwing objects at a speed generate more lifting strength than just lifting it up Olympic weight lifting style? Can a higher value of lifting strength be deduced from throwing an object at a smaller mass? Say, can a young adult achieve "superhuman" or higher lifting strength by throwing a vehicle with only "peak human" mass?

For: Throwing takes quite a bit more than just lifting the amount of weight, so one could measure acceleration on the throw to get a more on point measurement. Since if one throws an object, they would add the amount of newtons in acceleration to the existing weight they'd need to overcome at least somewhat to launch it.

Against: Lifting and striking use different muscle groups, and one requires force, the other energy, which means lifting strength is best measured from a standstill, while striking strength is best measured in motion. Throwing an object involves striking with an object in motion. Therefore, saying deriving lifting strength from throwing objects is like saying deriving lifting strength from striking strength.

2. How does lifting an object in different gravitational force compare to each other?

3. How or whether stopping a moving object is counted as a lifting strength feat.

4. How does jerk come to play? (e.g. Chris Redfield at RE 5)

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

There is the Force = Mass * Acceleration formula, but should note it's based on acceleration rather than velocity. Though, it's more so how accelerated you make the object move rather than how fast you accelerate. But throwing objects with great acceleration seems legit.

Though, punching an object really hard to make it launch is not lifting strength but rather striking strength. It's lifting and throwing objects is what's LS.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

1. Yes

2. Lower gravity = less strength needed to lift, higher gravity = more strength required

 

[Antvasima]

I personally do not mind scaling throwing objects to lifting strength.

 

[KLOL506]

DDM and Weekly's conclusions look fine.

 

[Antvasima]

Is somebody willing to ask DontTalkDT and all of the calc group members to comment here?

 

[KLOL506]

IIRC a lot of the calc members, primarily DT and Antoniofer and possibly even Bambu have used throwing and the F=ma formula to figure out lifting strength at one point or another, and prolly even Ugarik as well.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

F=ma has always been used for LS.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, it's kind of always been a practice. The only thing is that it needs to be specific that someone is throwing the object rather than launching it via a punch before being considered lifting strength.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Do we need to update one of our instruction pages to officially specify this practice?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

KLOL asked me to show up but I don't know that I can add much other than yeah, its common practice to use F=MA. I picked it up from others, but I don't see a reason why it'd be invalid.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the input.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Okay. Do we need to update one of our instruction pages to officially specify this practice?

I would't object to say "you can use F=MA to calculate lifting strength for pushes, pulls, throws, etc." but I don't think it is necessary. It's just a certain method to quantify LS.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Although as DDM said, F=MA for a punch would not qualify for LS ofc.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I generally prefer official clarifications of our standard conventions though.

 

[DeathNoodles]

Launching/stopping an object via punch doesn't count as LS? That's news to me, because I've seen some profiles of franchises in this site with calcs based exactly on that logic to estimate the characters' LS.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Punching is considered Striking Strength instead

 

[DeathNoodles]

Strange, because franchises such as My Hero Academia bases their LS almost entirely on how their character can punch an object (or stop a heavy moving object) with a punch rather than actually based on how much they can physically lift an object or how far they can throw an object... (E.g. All Might, Izuku Midoriya, Katsuki Bakugou, etc.). What do we do with profiles such as that?

 

[Antvasima]

Is somebody willing to ask DontTalkDT and all of the calc group members to comment here?

This still seems like a good idea to me. Or at least DTDT should be asked.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

^^^^ Same here tbh. I think it was Deku and All Might for one example? I may be wrong though. But I do recall a few verses having LS from someone punching or kicking a heavy object and making it fly. Think it's the logic that if you punch an object hard emough to make it fly, your arm and fist would then have enough compressive force to support such a blow but it also thus generates a lift of sorts. The fist and the strength behind the arm provide the push in a way I guess, so people equivocate it toward an example of how much mass their body can push via a certain method of exerting force.

 

[KLOL506]

If the punch is instantaneous, it wouldn't count, but if the punch acts like pushing like in a scenario where both dudes collide their punches and the other pushes the punch back slowly and gradually, like here, then it'd scale.

Or if a punch manages to hold back an object above the ground long enough.

 

[KLOL506]

In the case of All Might tho I don't think his punch is sending any stationary object flying, it's just stopping a cube being launched at him, so it should be fine.

Kinda like Kiryu stopping a bull mid-track and Saejima briefly pinning down a speeding car.

EDIT: Yup. All Might and Deku briefly had to push the cube back in sort of a lifting motion before the cube shattered.

 

[DeathNoodles]

If the punch is instantaneous, it wouldn't count, but if the punch acts like pushing like in a scenario where both dudes collide their punches and the other pushes the punch back slowly and gradually, like here, then it'd scale.

Katsuki Bakugou's LS justification for his second key should not qualify based on this then, as that current LS estimated is literally just sending someone flying several meters back the moment their punch landed.

 

[DeathNoodles]

EDIT: Yup. All Might and Deku briefly had to push the cube back in sort of a lifting motion before the cube shattered.

It might be just me, but it doesn't look like the cube was being pushed back upwards in the air, just stopped before it then gets destroyed. I might be wrong though, as it's it only based from what I personally observed.

 

[KLOL506]

That I can agree with, plus Kacchan doesn't even have a calc for his feat nor is Deku trying to resist him in a grappling match or accelerating towards him.

LS via punching should only be applied if you're trying to stop a moving object charging towards you, stationary objects wouldn't count.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

So halting moving objects with punches still scales?

 

[KLOL506]

So halting moving objects with punches still scales?

Yeah.

 

[KLOL506]

EDIT: Yup. All Might and Deku briefly had to push the cube back in sort of a lifting motion before the cube shattered.

It might be just me, but it doesn't look like the cube was being pushed back upwards in the air, just stopped before it then gets destroyed. I might be wrong though, as it's it only based from what I personally observed.

The punch impacts right where they say "smash" then there's a few seconds of them trying to push their way through holding the block back in place before it finally shatters.

 

[DeathNoodles]

That's only holding the cube in place in the air, not actually pushing it upwards to the point that it moves from its position. It does seem to require some form of LS force though, so their LS justifications probably shouldn't be negatively affected much.

But LS justifications based on punching a individual several meters back the moment their punch landed such as Katsuki Bakugou and Izuku Midoriya for Class 5 Justifications should not qualify based on that.

 

[KLOL506]

It's also basically how we deduced Spidey's lifting strength and tier.

 

[DeathNoodles]

From the Marvel Comics? I thought that was based on him physically holding up the daily bugle building up in a lifting motion (similar to deadlifting or bench-pressing an object), which looks like a solid LS feat to me.

 

[KLOL506]

From the Marvel Comics? I thought that was based on him physically holding up the daily bugle building up, which looks like a solid LS feat to me.

We also made use of the building's falling speed and PE, him simply holding the building up wasn't gonna cut it.

 

[KLOL506]

That's only holding the cube in place in the air, not actually pushing it upwards to the point that it moves from its position. It does seem to require some form of LS force though, so their LS justifications probably shouldn't be negatively affected much.
But LS justifications based on punching a individual several meters back the moment their punch landed such as Katsuki Bakugou and Izuku Midoriya for Class 5 Justifications should not qualify based on that.

Holding it back from falling would also count, you don't need to necessarily make it move with a punch.

 

[DeathNoodles]

I didn't say it doesn't count, I even admitted that it probably requires some form of LS force to perform such feats.

 

[DeathNoodles]

We also made use of the building's falling speed and PE, him simply holding the building up wasn't gonna cut it.

I mean, simply holding up the building would give him LS values such as class 25/50/100 (instead of something higher like Class M based on building's falling speed and PE) otherwise as a solid LS feat based on the mass of the building, but fair enough.

 

[KLOL506]

Ah. OK.

I do remember another Class 5 feat for Deku-tier characters that doesn't involve punching, done by some dude named Shouji but I don't know the verse much to make any valid distinctions.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I don't think stopping something with a powerful punch (like how Hulk stopped the Leviathan) should be considered lifting strength. If you place your fist on someone and push them forwards it should be fine, but this rarely happens.

 

[DeathNoodles]

I'll just leave the rest of the topic of halting/launching object via punch up to the calc users then.

 

[KLOL506]

Hulk didn't end it with a punch tho, he was pushing it back.

Also sending something that massive is gonna require some degree of lifting strength to stop. And contrary to belief, it actually kinda happens a lot where the fighter can't one-hit-kill a big object.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I'm neutral on feats of stopping something with a punch. Can someone contact the other calc group members?