Asriel Dreemurr VS Madoka Kaname

[ZeroTwo64]

Base Asriel VS Ultimate Madoka
Speed Equalized

Who will win and why?

 

[Kaltias]

Isn't the thread kinda redundant? He already has a loss against Homura.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Homura is way better at fighting other 2-As than Madoka, though.

Just ask Madoka.

 

[ZeroTwo64]

If this is a stomp for Madoka I can close the thread!

 

[Kaltias]

No, not a stomp, don't worry about that

 

[ZeroTwo64]

Ok,thank you!

 

[Kaltias]

Madoka has no real way to bypass SAVE and LOAD, and Asriel has no real way to bypass Madoka's immortality. Probably inconclusive.

Dunno if making this Base Asriel instead of Full Power Asriel changes anything though.

 

[ZeroTwo64]

Can't Concept Manipulation negate the concept of Save and Load,or I am wrong?

 

[Kaltias]

No, Madoka's conceptual manipulation shouldn't be powerful enough to do it. Azzy can probably explain it better than me, but basically removing a concept from the multiverse doesn't equate to being able to affect a multiversal+ entity to the same extent

 

[The_Foolish_Omniscient_Guy]

like Kaltias said, this is not sure they can kill each over.

I go for inconclusive

 

[SomebodyData]

Actually, whole Madoka can't quite manipulate Asriel's concept, does the same necessarily apply to SAVE and LOAD?

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

I'd probably go for Asriel. Asriel is a way stronger version of Flowey, who has lived out pretty much every outcome of the multiverse, so he would be MUCH smarter and more experienced than Madoka. And he's more fighting-based than Madoka.

 

[Kaltias]

Madoka is nigh-omniscient and can see all the future and the past.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

From a 3D perspective only. She wouldn't be omniscient about someone Immeasurable.

 

[Kaltias]

Yeah, it was more about the experience thing

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

My point is, Madoka's not a fighter. IMO, Madoka would lose to Asriel the same way that Captain America would lose to Batman. Asriel isn't just a god, he's a god that can and will kill their opponent in any way they can.

 

[Kaltias]

Madoka is willing to kill due to SBA. And even if she decided that she doesn't want to fight, how would Asriel kill her?

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Asriel erases everything, pretty much.

 

[Kaltias]

Asriel doesn't erase concepts though

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

He can erase everything that causes her to be immortal.

 

[Kaltias]

She is immortal because of a concept and because she is a concept

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Now that I think about it, neither can really kill each other. At least as long as Asriel is in Base.

 

[Kaltias]

Full power Asriel doesn't have the ability to affect concepts either

 

[FateAlbane]

Actually, whole Madoka can't quite manipulate Asriel's concept, does the same necessarily apply to SAVE and LOAD?

/\ Was thinking the same thing, since DT was being overwhelmed in the final battle against Asriel.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

DT wasn't being overwhelmed, at least not for long. Frisk heard the shouts of her friends and grew strong to the point where she could tear out Asriel's SOULs and Asriel wore himself out trying to kill Frisk. DT can't really be overwhelmed without other DT.

 

[FateAlbane]

No? Until saving Asriel shenanigans, Asriel was overwhelming Frisk. There's literally a dialogue about Determination not being able to resurrect him/her/they/whatever forever.

DT caps at 2-A.

 

[Kaltias]

DT is a higher degree of 2-A than Madoka tho

 

[FateAlbane]

Also "DT can't really be overwhelmed without other DT." is NLF.

 

[FateAlbane]

DT is a higher degree of 2-A than Madoka tho

Could be. Just pointing out the NLF.

 

[Anonimoe7875]

At this situation it isn't because DT is a higher degree of 2-A than Madoka...

EDIT: Ninja'd by Kaltias

 

[FateAlbane]

It is when you extrapolate it like "Unless you have DT you can't overwhelm it" and say no limits were shown in the game.

 

[Anonimoe7875]

Yes

 

[ZeroTwo64]

Inconclusive:2

Asriel:0

Madoka:0

 

[Infernacio]

I'd probably go for Asriel. Asriel is a way stronger version of Flowey, who has lived out pretty much every outcome of the multiverse, so he would be MUCH smarter and more experienced than Madoka. And he's more fighting-based than Madoka.

True, But I doubt Either can bypass Immortality/Save and Load. But Asriel does have the advantage here, Making it the At least 2-A. Might make a difference. I vote for Asriel/Inc

 

[Kaltias]

Asriel has literally no way to kill her though. The AP advantage doesn't help him that much

 

[ZeroTwo64]

We are only using base Asriel here

 

[The_Foolish_Omniscient_Guy]

Asriel has literally no way to kill her though. The AP advantage doesn't help him that much

True, if he was full power, he couldn't kill her, he could only neutralize her.

But here, this is base Asriel.

 

[Kaltias]

Full power Asriel has negated the powers of someone infinitely weaker than Madoka tho

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

If even Full Power Asriel can't deal with Madoka, why don't you guys at least use Full Power Asriel? If it's gonna make it fairer.

 

[Hazerddex]

Homura is way better at fighting other 2-As than Madoka, though.
Just ask Madoka.

OH MY ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

ok sorry couldn't help myself just remembering what Azathoth was talking about

also this is base Asriel Dreemurr right?