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Ash's Pikachu Power Scaling

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DragonGamerZ913 said:
However, this is only theoretical, as it's also possible that the boost is considerably higher for Pikachu considering that Gigantamax Pikachu scales to other Gigantamaxes
Click to expand...
This is an iffy area, because Pikachu rather easily beat Gigantamax Drednaw when Pikachu was clearly extremely inexperienced with its Gigantamax form but we know Gigantamax Pikachu could hurt and resist Leon's Gigantamax Charizard, and also significantly hurt his base Charizard by just transforming.

I'd say we need to see Ash train Pikachu in Gigantamax before we consider it having any 'special boost' in power.

Still, Pikachu >1.6 Gigatons via vaporising a combined Hyper Beam and Gigantamax is, as you say, at least 2x Base. I think at least High 7-A, possibly 6-C would make sense for a Gigantamax key for now.
 
Okay, I took a look at Episode 12 and Pikachu's Thunderbolt (which has at least High 7-A AP) was completely unable to effect G-Max Drednaw, who is 2x weak to Electric-type moves.

Assuming type weaknesses apply to AP:

  • Pikachu = >1.6 Gigatons
  • Thunderbolt VS G-Max Drednaw = >3.2 Gigatons
Drednaw was completely uneffected by the Thunderbolt, not even noticing it. Yet, G-Max Pikachu defeated Drednaw in just two attacks, with G-Max Volt Crash knocking it out of G-Max.

In other words:

  • G-Max Volt Crash + Max Steelspike >> G-Max Drednaw >>>> Thunderbolt = At least 3.2 Gigatons (VS Water)
Overall, 6-C G-Max Pikachu seems very reasonable to me.
 
I got no problem with it then. It just depends on whether type matchups do apply to AP
 
If that's accepted then we are looking at:

Tier: At least High 7-A (Vaporised the combined power of Gyarados and Tyranitar, who should scale to Charizard), Higher with Z-Moves or absorbing electricity, 4-B with 10,000,000 Volts (Defeated Guardian of Alola Tapu Koko, who should be much stronger than Tapu Koko) | High 6-A | 6-C (Easily defeated G-Max Drednaw, when it shrugged off Pikachu's super-effective Thunderbolt)
 
Actually, I think I recall one possible upgrade for Ash's Pokemon. There was an episode where a Pokemon trainer had an Articuno, in which Ash's Charizard was able to defeat. And furthermore, Ash was also able to win against Brandon, who had the Regi trio. Though, Ash needed his top 4 strongest Pokemon being Pikachu, Bulbasaur, Squirtle, and Charizard or order to win. And other instances shows Pikachu not being much different from his regular Pokemon who in turn struggle to fight various gym leaders.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
If that's accepted then we are looking at:
Tier: At least High 7-A (Vaporised the combined power of Gyarados and Tyranitar, who should scale to Charizard), Higher with Z-Moves or absorbing electricity, 4-B with 10,000,000 Volts (Defeated Guardian of Alola Tapu Koko, who should be much stronger than Tapu Koko) | High 6-A | 6-C (Easily defeated G-Max Drednaw, when it shrugged off Pikachu's super-effective Thunderbolt)
Click to expand...
We actually agreed on making a separate key for the Sun and Moon series onwards due to SM's emphasis on Ash and Pikachu's growth
 
DragonGamerZ913 said:
We actually agreed on making a separate key for the Sun and Moon series onwards due to SM's emphasis on Ash and Pikachu's growth
Click to expand...
Alright so:

  • Tier: at least 7-A, higher with Z-Moves or when absorbing electricity | at least High 7-A, higher with Z-Moves or when absorbing electricity, 4-B with 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt | High 6-A | 6-C
  • Key: Pre-SM | End-SM and after | Blue Orb absorbed | G-Max
 
Makes sense, but I didn't expect Gigantamax to have its own key. I thought it would be kinda like:

At least High 7-A, higher with Z-Moves or when absorbing electricity, 6-C with Gigantamax, 4-B with 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt
 
Same could be said for Megas, but Trainers with Megas have it all in one key. (Lysandre's key, for example, was 7-A, High 7-A with Mega Gyarados iirc)

I just don't think a whole other key needs to be made for the Gigantamax form
 
It really is full of outliers, especially Pikachu thanks to its incredibly inconsistent scaling that has thankfully become at least somewhat more consistent recently
 
Well, Ash's page will need upgrades as well. His SM and PM teams should be comparable to Pikachu, after all. If I do those changes, I'll be sure to use the format used on trainer pages.

Discussion of whether we should do it all in one key, or separate keys, seems like a broader CRT for pokemon profiles.
 
@DarkDragonMedeus As for the tiering itself, how is it? Does it get the stamp of approval? And should the Gigantamax key stay within the SM series onwards key or have its own key?
 
Ash wouldn't be as hard to upgrade since he's already High 7-A. Maybe something like High 7-A, up to 4-B with certain Pokemon (because Melmetal and Naganadel), 4-B with 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt?
 
I'd personally prefer to just give him a new key.

9-B (Himself) | High 7-A (Pre-SM) | At least High 7-A (End-SM and after), 6-C with G-Max, 4-B with 10,000,000 Volts, Melmetal and Naganadel
 
That's fine, someone can just make an Ash CRT after this Pikachu CRT is closed.

Is everyone in agreement for this?

at least 7-A (Pre-SM), higher with electricity | At least High 7-A (End-SM and after), higher with electricity and Z-Moves, 4-B with 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt | 6-C (G-Max)
 
To be honest I kinda disagree with Gigantamax having its own key but that's just petty of me, it really doesn't matter.

But yeah, I'm in agreement
 
If that's the case, we may want to structure it so Pre-XY Pikachu is 7-A, XY Pikachu is High 7-A and SM onwards Pikachu is at least High 7-A.
 
So would it look something like this?

At least 7-A, higher when absorbing electricity | High 7-A, higher when absorbing electricity | At least High 7-A, likely higher. Higher with Z-Moves or when absorbing electricity, 4-B with 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt | High 6-A | 6-C

Key: Original Series-Best Wishes Series | XY Series | Sun & Moon Series onwards | Blue Orb absorbed | Gigantamax

Either that or having a separate key for Gigantamax, but besides that, it would be like that right?

Edit: Made Gigantamax a separate key
 
Alright, edited it to have a separate key for Gigantamax. Is it okay to make the changes since we all seem to be in agreement?
 
Alright, I'll make the changes. I have a clear idea on what the AP justifications for each thing is
 
Should Pikachu have Solar System durability due to taking attacks from Guzzlord, Zeraora, and Tapu Koko?
 
Hold on, Leon's gigantamax'd Charizard is only High 7-A. While it should be at least High 7-A+, I don't think there's enough to upscale gmax Charizard and gmax Pikachu to 6-C.
 
Basically, the scaling is from Gigantamax Drednaw.

Drednaw is 2x weak to Thunderbolt, and it shrugged off a Thunderbolt from a 1.6 gigaton Pokemon like it wasn't even there, and since it's 2x effective on water types, it would theoretically be 3.2 gigatons on Water types.

Despite this, Drednaw shrugged it off like it wasn't even there, yet Gigantamax Pikachu easily defeated Drednaw and even forced it back into its normal form. This should be a big enough gap for G-Max Pikachu to be 6-C

I probably didn't do a good job explaining it, but Cryo explained it a little bit above
 
Technically it used an electric move to defeat Gmax Drednaw too. Idk, maybe I'm just being picky with the scaling.
 
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