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As If Monarch Doesn't Have Enough Reasons To Dislike Me Already (Griffin vs Observer)

She didn't set this flame, you just fell to her words
 
I don't think Griffin can kill Observer, and if he can, it won't be very easy. Even if he does, she can just resurrect... and she'll be adapting constantly. Acausality counters Griffin's precog, and Observer would be capable of forcing the concept of death onto him to counter his Immortality.

While Griffin has a lot of dangerous abilities and could feasibly incapacitate Observer for a while, Observer can slowly whittle away at his wards, copy/steal his abilities, and eventually absorb him. If she gets pushed too far, she will pull out Terminal Null, and, well...

In Never's inner world, Terminal Null, causality simply ceases to function for anyone but Observer; permanence and consequence bow to Observer's will, as causation, time, and space all freeze, preventing any action that Observer does not approve. Concepts cease to have any meaning in the face of this complete despair, destroying the basis of many magics outright, leaving most opponents helpless before Observer.
 
Griffin has some very weird abilities, like physics hax that works on minds and souls and bypasses resistence to such

Pretty sure that type 2 acausality won't help at all against Griffin's precog, which is closer to "predicting literally everything across the entire universe every instant to see what's happening" then simply seeing the future

Also nothing's stopping Griffin from immediately spamming time acceleration and blitzing
 
That does sound similar to some law effects in Starcross, so Griffin could maybe actually hurt and kill her. But the resurrection is still possible and who really knows.

You're right, I didn't read the long description. Observer does follow some weird laws and logic, though. And she can blow up concepts.
 
Well, considering that Griffin has a 666:Satan-type thing where he can learn all of your abilities by reading your mind and then amp them to the level of the rest of his hax, with said telepathy being borderline passive iirc, and adapt all of his abilities as needed, working on weird laws and logic will only work for as long as Griffin lets it

He doesn't have a counter to being conceptually nuked afaik
 
I don't think Observer's mind is gonna be easily read, she's got mind resistance in the quadrillions.
 
It... is though? Mental barriers keep out telepathy too.
 
Telepathy is specifically a power that is not related to mind hax

"mental barriers" probably keep telepathy out though, although this offers no response to Griffin just reading everything Observer does down to a quantum scale and learning from there
 
He said he'd come by and debate later and initally thought it was a stomp because he thought Observer was a type 1 abstract

Rn i'm debating with what i know about him and can glean from the page
 
they are not

not even ones that allow for blitzing anymore, although they shouldn't have ever been tbh
 
Griffin can just apply more time accels to his heart's content

even if he loses this, as long as it isn't a stomp he takes speed=/= because he can kill Observer a googol times before she ever has the chance think
 
Ok so

Griffin can see people's metaphysical consciousnesses and souls and interpret them to read their minds, but he can also just read your neurons.

Griffin's also fought someone he had to tear apart the defenses of while fighting them before (evil clone of himself) and he was doing that evenly. He's also got his own wards layered full of redunancies and woven tightly together so that said evil clone would have a harder time removing them.
 
Observer doesn't really have neurons, she's just pure magic following alien laws condensed into a humanoid body. If she does have neurons they're just for show and don't do anything. Defense against that sort of telepathy is kinda the norm anyways, though.

That certainly would be an issue for Observer but it's not like she doesn't have things he doesn't resist, like her conceptual attacks and absorption.
 
Conceptual absorption. Observer can steal people's inner worlds, which is their complete individual concept and the culmination of their entire existence and concepts.
 
Sounds like a reality marble type thing to me. Seeing as part of Griffin is Merlin, he'd probably have an inner world himself.

How trigger happy is she with that and what does she need to do to get it off?
 
Yeah, it is reality marble-esque, but there's more than just that.

She'll use it against anyone with interesting or powerful abilities, but, given that most people in Starcross would be able to resist it if it is used off the bat, she generally pulls it out to finish someone off. If she realizes Griffin's not warded against it, though, she'll just do it.

In her true form, she uses her limbs and Logos (telekinetic martial art that can be used for spiritual surgery essentially) to pull people in, but she could just do it through Logos alone, which would be instant, more or less.
 
Oof.

Guess Griffin better bluff well. What about other concept attacks? How much does she use those? And is it just like if you don't resist concept hax it goes straight through all your defenses, or is it possible to dodge or block it without actually resisting concept hax outright?
 
A lot of her attacks and different stolen magic types affect concepts, and she's pretty quick to use them. But I doubt most of them would be a oneshot even then. There is conceptual detonation; Observer can turn anything she touches into a bomb that will blow them up from the inside out, and given that she's an abstract being that disperses herself across a great range...

And if Observer gets pushed too far but not incapacitated or killed, she'll just pull out Terminal Null, an inner world that reverts all actions to 0, prevents any causal or temporal progression, and renders all concepts meaningless, destroying the basis of magic.
 
No conclusion. What an anticlimax
 
It happens.

Griffin's always more than happy to get the job done fast so he'd probably speed himself up if he sees most of his stuff getting Barrier'd, but IDK if he'd pull the blitz option before she pulls Terminal Null or concept bombing.

So

Inconclusive.
 
Looks like it'll just be caught in inconclusive forever.

Either Observer oneshots him with one of her hax or Griffin blitzes
 
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