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Thought it would be fun to do a 25 things I dislike abt VS debating/VSB (thought of doing more but meh, lazy).
Don't have any real enmity for the mentionned verses or those who follow x thing I disagree with, just wanted to use examples.
Btw it's just me saying stuff, not debating or asking for changes.
1) A lot of abilities' distinction feel useless. For instance: AE, Non-Corporeal and NEP could easily fit as types in a single page (Intangible Existence or whatev).
Morality Manipulation is just limited Mind Manipulation. Retrocognition, Precognition, and Clairvoyance could easily just be a single page since they are 3 types of one thing in "real life" mystic shit.
Subjective Reality is just a portrayal of other abilities (mainly EE and Creation). Time Stop as a type for Time Manip. Also I guess Zero-Dimensionality could just be the lowest kind of Small Size rather than its own page?
2) Some abilities pages are really barebone. I mean, sure, Fire doesn't need a full wikipedia article on how it works. But having some uses could be neat.
And it would be really useful for more complex abilities and distinctions, like Fate/Proba manip or (Social) Influencing.
3) Some abilities are not only unecessary but just wank-ish for no reason. Mainly Transduality (everything besides type 1 is technically done with a random transcendence, and type 1 is mostly just Resistance anyway);
Beyond Dimensional Existence, which is even more useless since one is mostly just Acausality and the second is just being a space-time based tier 1.
Then you have type 5 Acausality, which is type 4 acausality except we try to act like it's a super secret cheat type because we need OP high tiers.
4) Intangiblity as it is sucks. You have Non-Corporeal, Phasing, just going to another plane (Spatial), and Elemental Intangibility (which I call "Fluid Physiology" since that's the most accurate thing + it applies to non-elemental stuff too) all in a single page.
Non-Corporeal is already its own page, so no need for it to be a type in another. Spatial is basically just some form of dimensional travel with the ability to let an illusion of yourself be here (latter depends).
Phasing is its own ability and deserves its own page. And the Elemental one would just be a "Fluid Physiology" page like this https://simple-vs-battles-rules.fandom.com/wiki/Fluid_Physiology
5) Regeneration is kinda bad for anything in Godly. It assumes that regenerating "from" the soul is above any physical regeneration while it is just a different thing entirely.
The best thing would be for Regeneration to go from High to a single "Godly" which would be "the ability to regenerate from the complete erasure of the body".
And have Spiritual and Core/Conceptual/Whatever have their own category with the whole Low/Mid/High up to Godly.
As such, we would have things like Regeneration (Physical. Mid, regenerated from decapitation. Spiritual. Low-Mid regenerated from having their soul cut in half.)
6) The current TS is mainly accepted as based on infinities and IRL theories to make it accurate. Then you see Speed beyond Infinite.
You get the most headcanon-ish notions of Immeasurable, Irrelevant and (although not on this wiki or considered as Infinite although wrong) Inacessible speed.
One is glorified Time Travel, one is whateveryouwantreally and the other is a misunderstanding of what "0 time" means in the Speed equation, but they sure aren't based on anything but the debaters' own inventions.
At best I guess one could make higher than Infinite stuff by using Uncountable Infinity and so on but it's not really that necessary.
7) Talking about the TS, while it tries to distance itself from being dimension-based, way too many people still cling to them like it's the fact that they are dimensions that matter and not the portrayed transcendence shown in-verse.
8) Alephs also are the new Platonic Concept in term of misuse. Now that they were mentionned to explain higher infinities, everyone is an Aleph expert who can swear that numbers by themselves grant tier and don't depend of what they apply to.
9) On the subject of mathematics: current TS just overcomplicate things for absolutely nothing. Most people don't even understand what's written in it, authors included. And there's litteraly no need to make it THAT complicated.
It's really just restrective and not the best way of handling tiers either.
10) The unequal requirements for tier 1. You can get it by having a space encompassing a tier 2 one, infinite diff with a tier 2 one, being said to transcend tier 2 structure's space and time or seeing tier 2 one as fiction (illusion, dream, piece of written fiction, game).
All of these clearly aren't equal to one another, but that's just ignored to give you the tier. Basically a lack of consistency.
11) The distinction made between 3-A and Low 2-C requirements is ignored for 2-C and above. Now you magically don't have to prove that the space-time is destroyed, we'll just assume it is because you destroyed more than one universe.
The main argument to defend it is that the attack usually have to cross space-times to reach the other universe.
Problem is: 1) A guy can just make two universes go boom at the same time without an omnidirectional blast 2)You can cross universes without being able to damage Time or space-time.
Overall just another inconsistency
12) Tiers between 10-B and 3-A have very vague description with no comparison given.
For example: Planet level - "Characters who can create/destroy a planet." Sure, but there's a lot of planets, and we're told that there are "small" and "large" planets.
So what's the baseline for a "planet"? Earth? Why not just write "characters who can create/destroy a planet at least comparable in mass to the Earth"?
Same for town, city, etc...
13) This one a bit minor, but tier 11 should have similar description to Low 1-C/1-C since they work under the same logic.
14) No Limit Fallacy just doesn't exist. It was invented for VS debatting. And like all invented things, it is misused most of the time it is brought up.
It's mostly used to justify a character with no Resistance no-selling a hax without feats, because "it is NLF". An example I saw is "his death manip only killed a pack of wolves and fodder humans, it's NLF to say it can kill [insert x living being with no Resistance]"
There's already existing fallacies that can be used to show the flaw in such an argument, but inventing one isn't the way to go.
15) Inconsistencies, PIS and Outliers (besides having two different pages for nothing) are often misused. Might as well just call it "long running series are problematic".
PIS is just a reason for Inconsistencies, and Outliers just are a kind of Inconsistencies. In theory this can be used to prevent ridiculous wank or lowball.
But in practice they are just here to try to limit specific characters (Master Roshi's Moon level feat in the past) who are at a tier for a single feat in spite of countless characters being high tier for having a guy perform a single feat.
16) Scaling chains which are circular or only lead to the guy who perform the initial feat after 5 minutes are shit. It's annoying, doesn't help anyone, and its only possible use would be if it hides a feat which has a flaw.
Same for baseless "Should be comparable to" just because both guys are in the same party or participated in the same event.
17) People forgetting that characters have a personality sometimes. Not cool.
18) While most understand Omnipotence as the hyperbole it is, Omniscience and Omnipresence often aren't considered in relationship to their scale.
Like, if your Omniscience was shown to be on a single timeline, it shouldn't be assumed that it works on a great multiversal odyssey.
19) Canon's treatment is so random and lacks definite rules to recognize it despite a big page on the subject existing.
You'll find stuff like Discworld having the definitely canon Science of Discworld novel series not considered usable for the verse's cosmology just because there's a section dedicated to explain scientific stuff despite the events and in-verse explanations themselves being fully canon.
On the other hand, you'll find spin-off with vastly different cosmologies, character roles, etc... with little to no proof of canonicity being treated as such, with Pokemon Mystery Dungeon as the prime example.
Then you have crossovers which are their own can of worm.
20) Calcs somehow not falling under the inconsistency rule unless it gives you thirty more tiers. Otherwise, even if your verse is mostly wall level and treat city level stuff as nukes, you'll get everyone and their grandmother at city because a calc said so.
The same works for speed/durability/etc... with some verses being famous for the calc not fitting with the feat or coherence of the verse.
Calculations only and only should be tools which help to solidify a clear feat in a verse.
After all calculations are a fan interpretation of art rather than a verse fact. If your city nuking feat gets Country level through calcs and the guy who did it later struggles against a mountain being thrown at him; it's not the work which is at fault.
21) People just give too much attention to OP characters/tiers. Not only are lower tiered dudes rarely seen in VS debating in general, but people will
do anything to get you to accept their High Outerversal Goku and infinite layers into Boundless Rimuru.
22) "Gosh, the OP stuff mostly come from obscure works and notions only two person read? What a fun world we live in."
Basically, you'll find verses (or notions) somehow claimed to be "part of the strongest thing in existence" by everyone.
Then you read the work, and find that x feat used is actually out of context. Or that x thing is misinterpreted. Or that x character doesn't even exist in the work.
And the main reason obscure stuff are OP becomes mystery; it's just easier to wank works nobody cares about.
23) On the subject of "works nobody cares about". Half of what you'll hear comes from more hearsay than those that come out of Amber Heart's lawyer.
"This verse's top 100 in existence, I read it on some wiki and a friend who knows stuff told me so" is far from a rare occurence.
People just don't want to read bad stories, but they want to know strong characters, so hearsay's become the best compromise.
24) And the best way to get hearsay is foreign languages. Japanese is not a language with its metaphors, litterature, etc...; it's ancient mystical scriptures which hold the truth of the universe within.
Using words with 次元 in it being the first example I can think of when it comes to trying to use the japanese.
Even worse is when people flat out decide that "this/these translator(s) didn't do their job well, I have the truth" and end up making mistakes at best, or headcanon rewritting at worse.
This general mistrust of people who translate for a living and one's own ignorance are the two main reasons why you get ridiculous interpretations of a work based on pseudo-knowledge of a language.
25) People don't agree with everything I say. It makes me sad. Stop having opinions. Thank you.
Don't have any real enmity for the mentionned verses or those who follow x thing I disagree with, just wanted to use examples.
Btw it's just me saying stuff, not debating or asking for changes.
1) A lot of abilities' distinction feel useless. For instance: AE, Non-Corporeal and NEP could easily fit as types in a single page (Intangible Existence or whatev).
Morality Manipulation is just limited Mind Manipulation. Retrocognition, Precognition, and Clairvoyance could easily just be a single page since they are 3 types of one thing in "real life" mystic shit.
Subjective Reality is just a portrayal of other abilities (mainly EE and Creation). Time Stop as a type for Time Manip. Also I guess Zero-Dimensionality could just be the lowest kind of Small Size rather than its own page?
2) Some abilities pages are really barebone. I mean, sure, Fire doesn't need a full wikipedia article on how it works. But having some uses could be neat.
And it would be really useful for more complex abilities and distinctions, like Fate/Proba manip or (Social) Influencing.
3) Some abilities are not only unecessary but just wank-ish for no reason. Mainly Transduality (everything besides type 1 is technically done with a random transcendence, and type 1 is mostly just Resistance anyway);
Beyond Dimensional Existence, which is even more useless since one is mostly just Acausality and the second is just being a space-time based tier 1.
Then you have type 5 Acausality, which is type 4 acausality except we try to act like it's a super secret cheat type because we need OP high tiers.
4) Intangiblity as it is sucks. You have Non-Corporeal, Phasing, just going to another plane (Spatial), and Elemental Intangibility (which I call "Fluid Physiology" since that's the most accurate thing + it applies to non-elemental stuff too) all in a single page.
Non-Corporeal is already its own page, so no need for it to be a type in another. Spatial is basically just some form of dimensional travel with the ability to let an illusion of yourself be here (latter depends).
Phasing is its own ability and deserves its own page. And the Elemental one would just be a "Fluid Physiology" page like this https://simple-vs-battles-rules.fandom.com/wiki/Fluid_Physiology
5) Regeneration is kinda bad for anything in Godly. It assumes that regenerating "from" the soul is above any physical regeneration while it is just a different thing entirely.
The best thing would be for Regeneration to go from High to a single "Godly" which would be "the ability to regenerate from the complete erasure of the body".
And have Spiritual and Core/Conceptual/Whatever have their own category with the whole Low/Mid/High up to Godly.
As such, we would have things like Regeneration (Physical. Mid, regenerated from decapitation. Spiritual. Low-Mid regenerated from having their soul cut in half.)
6) The current TS is mainly accepted as based on infinities and IRL theories to make it accurate. Then you see Speed beyond Infinite.
You get the most headcanon-ish notions of Immeasurable, Irrelevant and (although not on this wiki or considered as Infinite although wrong) Inacessible speed.
One is glorified Time Travel, one is whateveryouwantreally and the other is a misunderstanding of what "0 time" means in the Speed equation, but they sure aren't based on anything but the debaters' own inventions.
At best I guess one could make higher than Infinite stuff by using Uncountable Infinity and so on but it's not really that necessary.
7) Talking about the TS, while it tries to distance itself from being dimension-based, way too many people still cling to them like it's the fact that they are dimensions that matter and not the portrayed transcendence shown in-verse.
8) Alephs also are the new Platonic Concept in term of misuse. Now that they were mentionned to explain higher infinities, everyone is an Aleph expert who can swear that numbers by themselves grant tier and don't depend of what they apply to.
9) On the subject of mathematics: current TS just overcomplicate things for absolutely nothing. Most people don't even understand what's written in it, authors included. And there's litteraly no need to make it THAT complicated.
It's really just restrective and not the best way of handling tiers either.
10) The unequal requirements for tier 1. You can get it by having a space encompassing a tier 2 one, infinite diff with a tier 2 one, being said to transcend tier 2 structure's space and time or seeing tier 2 one as fiction (illusion, dream, piece of written fiction, game).
All of these clearly aren't equal to one another, but that's just ignored to give you the tier. Basically a lack of consistency.
11) The distinction made between 3-A and Low 2-C requirements is ignored for 2-C and above. Now you magically don't have to prove that the space-time is destroyed, we'll just assume it is because you destroyed more than one universe.
The main argument to defend it is that the attack usually have to cross space-times to reach the other universe.
Problem is: 1) A guy can just make two universes go boom at the same time without an omnidirectional blast 2)You can cross universes without being able to damage Time or space-time.
Overall just another inconsistency
12) Tiers between 10-B and 3-A have very vague description with no comparison given.
For example: Planet level - "Characters who can create/destroy a planet." Sure, but there's a lot of planets, and we're told that there are "small" and "large" planets.
So what's the baseline for a "planet"? Earth? Why not just write "characters who can create/destroy a planet at least comparable in mass to the Earth"?
Same for town, city, etc...
13) This one a bit minor, but tier 11 should have similar description to Low 1-C/1-C since they work under the same logic.
14) No Limit Fallacy just doesn't exist. It was invented for VS debatting. And like all invented things, it is misused most of the time it is brought up.
It's mostly used to justify a character with no Resistance no-selling a hax without feats, because "it is NLF". An example I saw is "his death manip only killed a pack of wolves and fodder humans, it's NLF to say it can kill [insert x living being with no Resistance]"
There's already existing fallacies that can be used to show the flaw in such an argument, but inventing one isn't the way to go.
15) Inconsistencies, PIS and Outliers (besides having two different pages for nothing) are often misused. Might as well just call it "long running series are problematic".
PIS is just a reason for Inconsistencies, and Outliers just are a kind of Inconsistencies. In theory this can be used to prevent ridiculous wank or lowball.
But in practice they are just here to try to limit specific characters (Master Roshi's Moon level feat in the past) who are at a tier for a single feat in spite of countless characters being high tier for having a guy perform a single feat.
16) Scaling chains which are circular or only lead to the guy who perform the initial feat after 5 minutes are shit. It's annoying, doesn't help anyone, and its only possible use would be if it hides a feat which has a flaw.
Same for baseless "Should be comparable to" just because both guys are in the same party or participated in the same event.
17) People forgetting that characters have a personality sometimes. Not cool.
18) While most understand Omnipotence as the hyperbole it is, Omniscience and Omnipresence often aren't considered in relationship to their scale.
Like, if your Omniscience was shown to be on a single timeline, it shouldn't be assumed that it works on a great multiversal odyssey.
19) Canon's treatment is so random and lacks definite rules to recognize it despite a big page on the subject existing.
You'll find stuff like Discworld having the definitely canon Science of Discworld novel series not considered usable for the verse's cosmology just because there's a section dedicated to explain scientific stuff despite the events and in-verse explanations themselves being fully canon.
On the other hand, you'll find spin-off with vastly different cosmologies, character roles, etc... with little to no proof of canonicity being treated as such, with Pokemon Mystery Dungeon as the prime example.
Then you have crossovers which are their own can of worm.
20) Calcs somehow not falling under the inconsistency rule unless it gives you thirty more tiers. Otherwise, even if your verse is mostly wall level and treat city level stuff as nukes, you'll get everyone and their grandmother at city because a calc said so.
The same works for speed/durability/etc... with some verses being famous for the calc not fitting with the feat or coherence of the verse.
Calculations only and only should be tools which help to solidify a clear feat in a verse.
After all calculations are a fan interpretation of art rather than a verse fact. If your city nuking feat gets Country level through calcs and the guy who did it later struggles against a mountain being thrown at him; it's not the work which is at fault.
21) People just give too much attention to OP characters/tiers. Not only are lower tiered dudes rarely seen in VS debating in general, but people will
do anything to get you to accept their High Outerversal Goku and infinite layers into Boundless Rimuru.
22) "Gosh, the OP stuff mostly come from obscure works and notions only two person read? What a fun world we live in."
Basically, you'll find verses (or notions) somehow claimed to be "part of the strongest thing in existence" by everyone.
Then you read the work, and find that x feat used is actually out of context. Or that x thing is misinterpreted. Or that x character doesn't even exist in the work.
And the main reason obscure stuff are OP becomes mystery; it's just easier to wank works nobody cares about.
23) On the subject of "works nobody cares about". Half of what you'll hear comes from more hearsay than those that come out of Amber Heart's lawyer.
"This verse's top 100 in existence, I read it on some wiki and a friend who knows stuff told me so" is far from a rare occurence.
People just don't want to read bad stories, but they want to know strong characters, so hearsay's become the best compromise.
24) And the best way to get hearsay is foreign languages. Japanese is not a language with its metaphors, litterature, etc...; it's ancient mystical scriptures which hold the truth of the universe within.
Using words with 次元 in it being the first example I can think of when it comes to trying to use the japanese.
Even worse is when people flat out decide that "this/these translator(s) didn't do their job well, I have the truth" and end up making mistakes at best, or headcanon rewritting at worse.
This general mistrust of people who translate for a living and one's own ignorance are the two main reasons why you get ridiculous interpretations of a work based on pseudo-knowledge of a language.
25) People don't agree with everything I say. It makes me sad. Stop having opinions. Thank you.
only via east blue alone is enough 
you? 
