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Archie sonic downgrade CRT

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Thats what I kept saying in the last thread that Chaos force transcending 2-A multiverse to a degree that lower one cant percieve residents of Chaos force doesn't at all show a qualitative superiority over 2-A multiverse enough to become Low 1-C, heck my arguments weren't even countered. Only reason I had to drop that was because of the FAQ page which somehow treats transcending space and time to some degree as qualitative superiority as Low 1-C which to be frank is more fault of FAQ page than the arguments pushing for Low 1-C Chaos force itself.
 

"Q: What tier is transcending space and time?​

A: As said above, "transcending space and time" is a very vague statement by itself and can mean multiple things depending on the context in which it is made, as well as how this characteristic is portrayed in the first place. It is perfectly possible for such a statement to mean that a character is simply "untied" from the universe's spacetime, and is thus unaffected by alterations in the timeline and similar meddlings. Likewise, it's not exactly uncommon for time travel (Or any action / process that affects something through different points in time) to be described as "transcending time and space."

However, if it is specified that they "transcend space and time" in the sense that they exist on some higher level of reality that is outright superior to a spacetime continuum in nature, then they should be put at Low 1-C, assuming the continuum in question is one comprised of four dimensions. The answer may vary depending on this factor.

It should also be noted that simply existing in some alternate state of existence that lacks time and/or space is not really grounds for any tier in particular, as lacking such things does not translate to being superior to them, and would most often overlap with abilities like Acausality or Nonexistent Physiology. A good example of a case like this is Dormammu (Marvel Cinematic Universe), who is stated to exist in a realm "far beyond time," yet never actually displays any superiority over it, and is in fact vulnerable to time-based abilities due to his timeless nature."

It is basically through that bolded postulate in FAQ page which permitted Chaos force to get upgraded because the arguments met the requirement in the FAQ page, so I had to agree with the upgrade in the end. I dont still agree with what FAQ page says regarding bolded portion but that doesn't matter unless I make a CRT to change it.
 
My_area said:

Q: What tier is transcending space and time?​

A: As said above, "transcending space and time" is a very vague statement by itself and can mean multiple things depending on the context in which it is made, as well as how this characteristic is portrayed in the first place. It is perfectly possible for such a statement to mean that a character is simply "untied" from the universe's spacetime, and is thus unaffected by alterations in the timeline and similar meddlings. Likewise, it's not exactly uncommon for time travel (Or any action / process that affects something through different points in time) to be described as "transcending time and space."

However, if it is specified that they "transcend space and time" in the sense that they exist on some higher level of reality that is outright superior to a spacetime continuum in nature, then they should be put at Low 1-C, assuming the continuum in question is one comprised of four dimensions. The answer may vary depending on this factor.

It should also be noted that simply existing in some alternate state of existence that lacks time and/or space is not really grounds for any tier in particular, as lacking such things does not translate to being superior to them, and would most often overlap with abilities like Acausality or Nonexistent Physiology. A good example of a case like this is Dormammu (Marvel Cinematic Universe), who is stated to exist in a realm "far beyond time," yet never actually displays any superiority over it, and is in fact vulnerable to time-based abilities due to his timeless nature.

It is basically through that bolded postulate in FAQ page which permitted Chaos force to get upgraded because the arguments met the requirement in the FAQ page, so I had to agree with the upgrade in the end. I dont still agree with what FAQ page says regarding bolded portion but that doesn't matter unless I make a CRT to change it.
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And low 1-C Kirby got rejected even when it has transcending shit
 
Pretty sure any Tier 1 verse can be downgraded if you oversimply how it reaches that level, its why context is very important and why I don't like answering Q&A threads where people go "Hey, heres this summary of a contextless description of the Cosmology of the verse which I think might be Tier 1, also the text might not actually says this and it's my interpretation while the real thing doesn't contain anything that make this description 1."
 
The Chaos Force was accepted as Tier 1 because it had more context than simply transcend space-time bulls, alongside an difference between the higher planes being explicitly stated inside of the comic.


Archie contains an infinite timeline branching multiverse that ever keeps expanding as of the circumstances (Dark Mobius and Mobius Prime), the force holds qualitative superiority over those extensions, including Maginaryworld and other planes.
 
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Gabs22_Gamer said:
The Chaos Force was accepted as Tier 1 because it had more context than simply transcend space-time bulls, alongside an difference between the higher planes being explicitly stated inside of the comic.
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Yup.

Gotta love downgrade CRTs that post zero scans/evidence and make assumptions without knowing the full context.

Anyway I'm not going to further entertain this misrepresented mess any further, just put me on disagree and move on.
 
I was someone who agreed with the upgrad but start disagreeing in that thread, however, you cannot explain the whole context of how the hierarchies works in the verse with a simply sentence of ''transcending space-time is not enough to Low 1-C), as Archie Sonic cosmology have way more explanations regarding it
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
That’s a pretty hefty oversimplification
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This, and just this.

In what world do you think you can just make a statement that applies to the entire wiki and make it the sole sentence of the OP for a downgrade thread and actually think you're going to be successful?

Not to mention that Ultima Reality agreed to Tier 1. Which isn't an attempt at appeal to authority, but Ultima is THE staff to go to for Tier 1 shit.
 
ShakeResounding said:
This, and just this.

In what world do you think you can just make a statement that applies to the entire wiki and make it the sole sentence of the OP for a downgrade thread and actually think you're going to be successful?

Not to mention that Ultima Reality agreed to Tier 1. Which isn't an attempt at appeal to authority, but Ultima is THE staff to go to for Tier 1 shit.
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I didn't want to reply any further on this CRT but the fact it came from a place of blatant spite and whataboutism (shown here) pretty much shows why it was so poorly constructed.

I don't care if this an appeal to motive or whatever, if folks have a problem with how certain verses are rated (that follow this Wiki's standards) then make a well constructed argument and revise the standards and not whatever this thread is suppose to be.

Now I'm done with this CRT.
 
Everything12 said:
You can't just say you transcend Space-Time and are on a Higher Dimension and be done with it, their still has to be some context on how the Realm is above Space-Time.
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That is exactly the issue, the fact that it is so vaguely worded makes it troublesome for people to evaluate if its Low 1-C or not. Maybe if it was more tightly worded, then it wouldn't be such a big mess but oh well.


The standards have apparently become loose that having realms which transcends whole 2-A multiverse in its entirely and having beings ascending to realms becoming incomprehensible to beings of multiverse as supporting evidence qualifies for it being qualitatively superior to 2-A multiverse hence granting Low 1-C with multiple staff and Ultima(one who made the standards) agreeing to it. Which is exactly why I had to drop my disagreement
 
sanicspood said:
following
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Nothing to follow. This isn't even a Sonic thread at that rate, with a lazy attempt at a downgrade when it's really something to take up with the standards.

Maybe if the OP actually took the time to go through the original Archie thread instead of being salty, he could've made a thread asking about the standards instead of focusing on a single verse.

Would it be better to close this thread and create a new one in the Q&A forum (or whatever would be best)?
 
I can kinda understand why they would think Archie isn't 5d just based on the justifications on the profiles, the chaos force gods ratings are just "transcendent to infinite space-time continuums". The average person who doesn't read Archie sonic comics probably wouldn't think its 5D if they know what the 5D justifications are, maybe if we can adjust the ap section of the characters and make it more specific and add the same justifications that are on 5D Archie CRT, it would be perfect.
 
sanicspood said:
I can kinda understand why they would think Archie isn't 5d just based on the justifications on the profiles, the chaos force gods ratings are just "transcendent to infinite space-time continuums". The average person who doesn't read Archie sonic comics probably wouldn't think its 5D if they know what the 5D justifications are, maybe if we can adjust the ap section of the characters and make it more specific and add the same justifications that are on 5D Archie CRT, it would be perfect.
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Not to mention that too, its literally worded as if its 2-A description with Low 1-C label slapped on it. Doing what you propose would certainly be better
 
1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void said:
nope, they don't have context where it states that the chaos force is infinitely superior to time-space.
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IMG-20210917-180601.jpg
 
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