Arceus, Darkrai, and Cresselia

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Hmm. Well if Cal isnt gonna worry about it that much I won't either really. So i'll concede.

Yeah I also want to know about those 2, as well as the "creation equals having abilities" thing.

 

[DontTalk]

Right but all the Creation Trio do is [...]

For the creation trio you probably can make that argument, though ability granting is also an option there and they could technically develope their abilities on their own, but since the feats are essentially performed right after their creation that doesn't matter here. Technically even then it might be indirect though, like having to create a tool to use an abilty, but I suppose that doesn't matter too much here either.

But for basically all other pokemon that looks different.


Regarding Danmaku: This is a bit subjective, but looking at this I would think the shots aren't dense enough to count. IMO to count the shots shouldn't be (much) more than 2 body width apart. (one of the advantages danmaku is supposed to give is after all that it is hard to dodge even if your speed is a bit greater than the projectile speed)

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I was speaking more about the game version than the glorified Draco Meteor that the movie did lol.

Also, in that case, how come Undertale qualifies as Danmaku?

 

[DontTalk]

In case of the game versio, I guess it does qualify?

Undertales fighting principle is bullet hell, which should kinda qualify by default.

The two body width was just some rule of thumb, it might actually be a bit hard to objectively tell the specific difference.

The basic idea of the ability is that the bullet density or complexity is high enough to add a lot to how difficult it is to dodge the attack itself.

At which point an attack objectively fulfills that is hard to tell, to be honest.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Ability Granting may be an option but if we are to assume that Arceus has that, then that would likely mean he has Conceptual Manipulation over every single ability he conjures up and gives away, no? Im also not denying that the Creation Trio can develop their own abilities at their own convienence but thats only after they start training or fighting other pokemon. In other words, become a part of a trainers team which is game mechanics IIRC. Canonically wise, all the Creation Trio do is just....well....be house sitters to their respective realms and monitor time, space, etc. Until running into their trainers they are never given the chance to fight, train or naturally develop their powers. Plus, without getting game mechanics involved, it might be kind of absurd to think the god tiers of the verse need training to either level up or learn a specific move. And as far as abilities go, like Pressure, that is naturally given to them the moment they are born (I believe this happend in the Sinjoh Ruins event as well). So unless were assuming and can prove the trio have something like reactive evolution, allowing them to therefore develop their abilties without even needing to train, the more likely solution is that Arceus just gave them all their neccessities so they can do their jobs. Afterall, its not Arceus ever intended for his children to ever fight at all right?

Im not saying you don't have a point as I definitely see it, I just think their might be more solutions to this matter. But if its that questionable, couldnt we always treat Arceus like lets say.....Ywhach? We list the abilities but unless specified in VS threads Arceus cannot use them?

 

[DontTalk]

" then that would likely mean he has Conceptual Manipulation over every single ability he conjures up and gives away, no?"

What? Why would you think that? No reason that would be the case.

"but thats only after they start training or fighting other pokemon."

I have characters in fiction develope new powerful abilities through meditation, so that would actually not be necessary. There are also other methods to train on ones own.

As said, since most of the abilities were basically used instantly after their creation, this is not the issue for them.


The difference to Yhwach here is that we know for a fact yhwach has them, we just don't see him use any of them.

Yhwach not having them listed follows a much stricter philosophie of what should be listed actually.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Actually wait I just realized wouldnt Arceus still have Dream Manipulation via Rise of Darkrai?

Unless im mistaking it, Palkia in the film was casually capable of making the dreams of the Pokemon darkrai put to sleep reality just by warping space alone. If making Dreams real means Dream Manipulation, then from how Palkia did it, it should be given to her and Arceus who clearly has better space hax and even created the concept of space.

 

[Cropfist]

Disagree for reasons above.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

We're all in disagreement by now, Crop. Even me. It's the other things that are important.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

We're all in disagreement by now, Crop. Even me. It's the other things that are important.

Ik that but I just brought up a point that might possibly still give it to him. Unless....is it incorrect?