Pokemon - Arceus and his Plate abilities?

[Hasty12345]

How many times are you going to fail to give a reasonable counter for it

We all know what it says, you’ve tattooed it onto our brains

 

[Sniper670]

So yeah, first, I'll argue why the Original One (True Form Arceus) should keep all abilities and moves. First, let's take a look at "the Original Story".

• "In the beginning, there was only a churning turmoil of chaos. At the heart of chaos, where all things became one, appeared an Egg. Having tumbled from the vortex, the egg gave rise to the Original One. From itself, two beings the Original One did make. Time started to spin. Space began to expand. From itself again, three living things the Original One did make. The two beings wished, and from them, matter came to be. The three living things wished, and form them, spirit came to be. The world created, the Original One took to unyielding sleep."

⠀⠀— The Original Story

This already confirms that Palkia, Dialga and the Lake Trio are nothing but smaller parts of Arceus itself. Thus, Arceus is actually the entire Universe, reality, and all Pokemon. They are all smaller parts of the Original One, thus, this already gives us a reason to make True Arceus scale to them, since they are it. There isn't the need for the lore to go out of its way to showcase Arceus doing literally everything to satisfy the burden of proof. There is no anti-feat.

'Well, Arceus can't learn the TM Focus Punch'.

Let's look at this dialogue in Pokemon Platinum.

• "A Pokémon is said to have shaped this world. Could that Pokémon be the physical form of the original spirit?"

⠀⠀— Hiker

Implying that the Arceus we see in game is just a physical manifestation of the Original One, an Avatar. So Arceus not learning a TM isn't an Anti Feat for the Original One, but only it's Avatar.

This should already give us a decent basis to scale True Arceus to all Pokemon. But -


Diving into the plates
So yeah, Staff seems to believe that the Plates are a weak argument. But that's only because people did a really, really poor job at explaining them. Let's first state what the plates even are, still looking at dialogue from Platinum.

• "The Original One breathed alone before the universe came. When the universe was created, its shards became this Plate. The power of defeated giants infuses this Plate. Two beings of time and space set free from the Original One. Three beings were born to bind time and space. Two make matter, and three make spirit, shaping the world."

⠀⠀— Hiker's Book

So, yeah, Arceus' shards became the plates. They are stated to be part of Arceus' Body.

• "生まれてくる　ポケモン プレートの力　わけあたえられるPokémon born with the power of the plate."

⠀⠀— Hiker's Book (Japanese Version)

Pokemon are born with the power of the plates, which are just Arceus itself.

Thus, saying "Well, The Creation Trio and The Lake Trio had types before the plates", I mean, yes, obviously. They are literally just a smaller piece of the creator of all types, Arceus, who became the plates. It's not a contradiction.



True Form Arceus should not lose its ability to use all moves and abilities, since all Pokemon are just parts of him. Furthermore, the plates themselves should also not lose said capability, because they are just Arceus.

The Creation Story talks about Arceus the Pokémon. His True Form has 0 relationships with the Plates

So in the end, His Avatar should be the one getting all the powers

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

You are incorrect.
It means "The essence of all creation" in a literal sense. They are just shards of the creator of all existence after all.

False. They are shards of the universe.

This already confirms that Palkia, Dialga and the Lake Trio are nothing but smaller parts of Arceus itself.

Not really. It just confirms that Palki, Dialga, and Lake Trio are made from Arceus's power. They are still indepedent creatures with a will of their own, and will even defy and disagree with Arceus.

Thus, Arceus is actually the entire Universe, reality, and all Pokemon.

What you posted says none of that. That's just your speculation.

They are all smaller parts of the Original One, thus, this already gives us a reason to make True Arceus scale to them, since they are it.

They're still independent of Arceus as I said before. And canonically, they can learn moves that Arceus, cannot so some of their powers are indepdent of Arceus and their own. Arceus does scale them, that's true.

There isn't the need for the lore to go out of its way to showcase Arceus doing literally everything to satisfy the burden of proof. There is no anti-feat.

It does when you're trying to claim that because Arceus gets all the powers, abilities, and movesetes of every pokemon in existence and concurrently. You don't have enough evidence for that. All you have is Arceus created the universe and made concepts of time and space, and spirt which double as pokemon.

No where in the story does it say it created the rest of the pokemon. Especially when we know pokemon organically come into existence on their own based on the environment.

'Well, Arceus can't learn the TM Focus Punch'.

Let's look at this dialogue in Pokemon Platinum.

• "A Pokémon is said to have shaped this world. Could that Pokémon be the physical form of the original spirit?"

⠀⠀— Hiker

Implying that the Arceus we see in game is just a physical manifestation of the Original One, an Avatar. So Arceus not learning a TM isn't an Anti Feat for the Original One, but only it's Avatar.

Well considering that the plates are listed under Arceus, you should agree with me, that it's not supported that Arceus to be able to use every move, when its shown that he can't. Have every abliity, when it's only shown that he has one, and no others. (excluding the specific three from Pokemon Conquest). And shouldn't have the powers of every pokemon and non-pokemon that aren't specific moves or abilities.

You can argue for the Origin One in another thread.

• "The Original One breathed alone before the universe came. When the universe was created, its shards became this Plate. The power of defeated giants infuses this Plate. Two beings of time and space set free from the Original One. Three beings were born to bind time and space. Two make matter, and three make spirit, shaping the world."

⠀⠀— Hiker's Book

So, yeah, Arceus' shards became the plates. They are stated to be part of Arceus' Body.

What you posted doesn't say that Arceus is the universe, and it says that plates are the shards of the universe, not Arceus.

Also that image you posted is blank. Can you repost it?

• "生まれてくる　ポケモン プレートの力　わけあたえられるPokémon born with the power of the plate."

⠀⠀— Hiker's Book (Japanese Version)

Pokemon are born with the power of the plates, which are just Arceus itself.

I need you the post the entire context of that post. Where is it from? The entire paragraph and section. And what is the official english translation of that line.

Thus, saying "Well, The Creation Trio and The Lake Trio had types before the plates", I mean, yes, obviously. They are literally just a smaller piece of the creator of all types, Arceus, who became the plates. It's not a contradiction.

Nothing you posted says Arceus became the plates. Also, the plates are imbued with the Power of the Giants, so it's not just Arceus's power that's in them.
It is a contradiction.

The Creation and Lake Trio had types before the plates existed. The plates were created from the universe in imbued with the power of the giant and arceus. If pokemon get their power from the plate, that means they also get their power from the Giants and not just Arceus. If Arceus and Giants power is needed to give pokemon their power, how did the Creation Trio and Lake Trio have their powers in the first place?

Or. The Plates don't give pokemon their power and that contradiction gets solved.

True Form Arceus should not lose its ability to use all moves and abilities, since all Pokemon are just parts of him. Furthermore, the plates themselves should also not lose said capability, because they are just Arceus.

True Form Arceus has it from the Avatar. Once the plates are fixed, you can make CRT thread to give True Arceus the ability to use all the moves and abilities.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

The Creation Story talks about Arceus the Pokémon. His True Form has 0 relationships with the Plates

So in the end, His Avatar should be the one getting all the powers

It does not. The Original One is the spirit, Arceus the Pokemon is the physical manifestation of said spirit as stated by the Hiker.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Also it's really funny cause the profile lists all the good abilities but failed to put Truant, Slow Start, and Defeatist. Like it was so blatant.

 

[Sniper670]

Also it's really funny cause the profile lists all the good abilities but failed to put Truant, Slow Start, and Defeatist. Like it was so blatant.

It's made explicitly clear that he has all abilities. That's why I made the Plates Profile. Which will be accepted sooner or later

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

It's made explicitly clear that he has all abilities. That's why I made the Plates Profile. Which will be accepted sooner or later

So we should put those abilities in his weaknesses then?

 

[Sniper670]

It does not. The Original One is the spirit, Arceus the Pokemon is the physical manifestation of said spirit as stated by the Hiker.

The Creator of the universe is Arceus the Pokemon. Everything that happened since egg is his avatar.

This spirit contained within itself time and space, and all forms of human consciousness and Pokémon were one in this spirit.

At the heart of chaos where everything resided as one is The Original Spirit, he emanated from himself egg

 

[Sniper670]

So we should put those abilities in his weaknesses then?

We would not.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

False. They are shards of the universe.

"The shards of the universe became the plates" makes zero sense, the universe doesn't turn into the plates.

Not really. It just confirms that Palki, Dialga, and Lake Trio are made from Arceus's power. They are still indepedent creatures with a will of their own, and will even defy and disagree with Arceus.

"From Arceus' power",
the statement says Arceus makes them from itself. Not from its power. You're actually making false claims, it's hilarious.
Being independent from the physical manifestation of Arceus is irrelevant.

What you posted says none of that. That's just your speculation.

Not at all.
Arceus' true form is composed Palkia and Dialga who are the embodiment of all creation. Literally read the entire argument.

They're still independent of Arceus as I said before. And canonically, they can learn moves that Arceus, cannot so some of their powers are indepdent of Arceus and their own. Arceus does scale them, that's true.

"Canonically"????? Brother, In-Game Arceus is just an Avatar.
Do you read the entire thing before replying? They are not independent from the original one, and their will are created by Arceus (Lake Trio).

Your comebacks are actually ridiculous, you depend so much on Avatar Arceus it's hilarious, even though I make a very clear distinction between the two.

It does when you're trying to claim that because Arceus gets all the powers, abilities, and movesetes of every pokemon in existence and concurrently. You don't have enough evidence for that. All you have is Arceus created the universe and made concepts of time and space, and spirt which double as pokemon.

I do. I literally proved that all of creation is nothing but an extension of True Arceus itself.

The lore DOES NOT need to showcase Arceus doing literally everything. It does NOT. If it claims all of creation is just Arceus' pieces, then Arceus can do everything its creation can. You need to prove otherwise.

No where in the story does it say it created the rest of the pokemon. Especially when we know pokemon organically come into existence on their own based on the environment.

Arceus is the entire environment, Arceus is literally everything. Please get that through your head already.

Well considering that the plates are listed under Arceus, you should agree with me, that it's not supported that Arceus to be able to use every move, when its shown that he can't. Have every abliity, when it's only shown that he has one, and no others. (excluding the specific three from Pokemon Conquest). And shouldn't have the powers of every pokemon and non-pokemon that aren't specific moves or abilities.

If you're talking about Avatar Arceus, yeah, sure.
If you're taking about True Arceus, who we literally never see in game, then no, I don't.

You can argue for the Origin One in another thread.



What you posted doesn't say that Arceus is the universe, and it says that plates are the shards of the universe, not Arceus.

You do realize that claiming that the plates are the shards of the universe they are in doesn't make any logical sense, right?

"It" referred to Arceus, not the Universe. This is supported by the statement that the plates are part of Arceus' body

Also that image you posted is blank. Can you repost it?

Oh, pardon.
Here

I need you the post the entire context of that post. Where is it from? The entire paragraph and section. And what is the official english translation of that line.

Check the link. Also, Japanese > English.

Nothing you posted says Arceus became the plates. Also, the plates are imbued with the Power of the Giants, so it's not just Arceus's power that's in them.
It is a contradiction.

It does, it's just you misinterpreting the quote.
Whoever the giants are, they are just part of Arceus.

The Creation and Lake Trio had types before the plates existed. The plates were created from the universe in imbued with the power of the giant and arceus. If pokemon get their power from the plate, that means they also get their power from the Giants and not just Arceus. If Arceus and Giants power is needed to give pokemon their power, how did the Creation Trio and Lake Trio have their powers in the first place?

If the Giants are created and part of Arceus, that's just irrelevant.
The plates are created by Arceus.
The Creation/Lake Trio are created by Arceus.
The Giants are created by Arceus or some adjacent creature who was created by Arceus.

It is literally not a contradiction, all of them come from the same source.

Or. The Plates don't give pokemon their power and that contradiction gets solved.

"Or we just ignore what's been stated because it's inconvenient".
Funny. Humorous. But no.

True Form Arceus has it from the Avatar. Once the plates are fixed, you can make CRT thread to give True Arceus the ability to use all the moves and abilities.

Arceus is the plates.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

The Creator of the universe is Arceus the Pokemon. Everything that happened since egg is his avatar.

This spirit contained within itself time and space, and all forms of human consciousness and Pokémon were one in this spirit.

The creator of the universe is the original one. You're just incorrect.

 

[Hasty12345]

We would not.

Arceus has all the abilities in the verse except the ones that you decide?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

"The shards of the universe became the plates" makes zero sense, the universe doesn't turn into the plates.

Okay and ?? That's what it says.

"From Arceus' power",
the statement says Arceus makes them from itself. Not from its power. You're actually making false claims, it's hilarious.

Okay. You're right. It made him from itself. I will correct myself with that.

Not at all.
Arceus' true form is composed Palkia and Dialga who are the embodiment of all creation. Literally read the entire argument.

They are not the embodiment of all creation. They are space and time respectively.

"Canonically"????? Brother, In-Game Arceus is just an Avatar.
Do you read the entire thing before replying? They are not independent from the original one, and their will are created by Arceus (Lake Trio).

Your comebacks are actually ridiculous, you depend so much on Avatar Arceus it's hilarious, even though I make a very clear distinction between the two.

The plates are written on the Avatar's slide.

I do. I literally proved that all of creation is nothing but an extension of True Arceus itself.

No you haven't.

The lore DOES NOT need to showcase Arceus doing literally everything. It does NOT. If it claims all of creation is just Arceus' pieces, then Arceus can do everything its creation can. You need to prove otherwise.

It literally does not say all of Creation is Arceus's pieces.

Arceus is the entire environment, Arceus is literally everything. Please get that through your head already.

Prove it please. A character being omnipresent isn't justification that they embody everything and all things are apart of them. Nice try though.

If you're talking about Avatar Arceus, yeah, sure.
If you're taking about True Arceus, who we literally never see in game, then no, I don't.

Good thing this thread is about avatar.

You do realize that claiming that the plates are the shards of the universe they are in doesn't make any logical sense, right?

And? That's what it says.

Oh, pardon.
Here

This contradicts everything, as it says the plates were created by humans who stole arceus's power. If you want to use that lore version, then we can. It still in no way justifies that the plates are the source of every move, ability, and power in the franchise.

Check the link. Also, Japanese > English.

Yeah. I did. Its an entire page. What section is the line from?

It does, it's just you misinterpreting the quote.
Whoever the giants are, they are just part of Arceus.

Nothing says the giants are part of Arceus and nothing says that the plates are Arceus from the game lore.

If the Giants are created and part of Arceus, that's just irrelevant.
The plates are created by Arceus.
The Creation/Lake Trio are created by Arceus.
The Giants are created by Arceus or some adjacent creature who was created by Arceus.

It is literally not a contradiction, all of them come from the same source.

These are just headcannons and not supported by any material. The giants are not stated to be created by Arceus or anyone. All that is said is that they were defeated and their power was imbued into the plates.

"Or we just ignore what's been stated because it's inconvenient".
Funny. Humorous. But no.

I mean, there is zero statements that say that plates give pokemon thier power.

Arceus is the plates.

The plates are made from the shards from the universe. OR from power stolen from Arceus by the humans if you go by pokemon adventures. Either interpretation, there is nothing that states all pokemon get their power from the plates.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

We would not.

Why not?

 

[Hasty12345]

Why not?

He’s just conceded Arceus doesn’t have every ability in the verse, he’s invalidated his own interpretation of his evidence…

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

He’s just conceded Arceus doesn’t have every ability in the verse, he’s invalidated his own interpretation of his evidence…

Arceus has every ability except the ones that will make him lose every vs battle. U.U.

 

[TheGreatMaster12]

Arceus has every ability except the ones that will make him lose every vs battle. U.U.

Yeah, that's an obvious example of cherrypicking things to your favour and ignoring anything that could be against yourself.
Also I don't know where they are getting that The Giants are part of Arceus, it literally says that they were defeated and their power were infused in the plates, why would Arceus create Giants, only to defeat them and steal their power, when he could just inbuilt the power without having to create them?
Because is false, nothing states that the Giants comes from Arceus at all, and you're definitely correct as saying that the plates were made with shards of the Universe, not of Arceus.

 

[Thelastmlg]

Y'all seriously extrapolating a single thing he said as if his argument is gone and he is maliciously ignoring specific parts, as if he alone decides what goes to the profile or not.

Last i checked, every weakeness in pokemon is resisted or nullified by another + the plates, so they'd cancel out.

And if they don't, who cares? Just add to the weakeness whatever he doesn't resist, we can define that list that later, this is about y'all realizing that game balancing doesn't overwrite lore.

Actually if this is about the types weakeness, they'd only be weak against rock type, and if it is about moves weakeness here and there, just link a list of the moves and explain that each move has a weakeness to it, we already list long stuff for abilities and equipment for the readers to find out themselves, why not for move weakeness

Btw, If you seriously think arceus not learning focus punch or some shit goes against the plates literally having the power of all things, you are agreeing with the same balancing that allows arceus to be beaten by a eevee, both are contradicted by showings and lore.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Btw, If you seriously think arceus not learning focus punch or some shit goes against the plates literally having the power of all things, you are agreeing with the same balancing that allows arceus to be beaten by a eevee, both are contradicted by showings and lore.

i can post an image of Arceus being held down by a crobat and a few other pokemon if you want.

 

[Arceus0x]

i can post an image of Arceus being held down by a crobat and a few other pokemon if you want.

and next you're gonna bring up the meteor OH BOY

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

and next you're gonna bring up the meteor OH BOY

Actually that' a good point.

When Arceus's loses his plates, his powers become limited and can't use the types of the plates he's missing.

If the plates give pokemon their typings, powers, and abilities, why does Arceus lose those powers? He should be able to remotely draw power from the plates like all pokemon do.

 

[Sniper670]

i can post an image of Arceus being held down by a crobat and a few other pokemon if you want.

I can call a mod to close this thread.

You're not bringing any points besides pis. It's clear this crt is going nowhere

 

[Sniper670]

Actually that' a good point.

When Arceus's loses his plates, his powers become limited and can't use the types of the plates he's missing.

In the same movie. He compressed stars/galaxies unto himself in his "weakened" state

In fact at the end of the movie, he reversed the crumbling of the ruins.



There was a gazillion ways he could've handled the meteorite

If the plates give pokemon their typings, powers, and abilities, why does Arceus lose those powers? He should be able to remotely draw power from the plates like all pokemon do.

Because he separated the powers from himself and placed them into plates. That still doesn't contradict the fact that the plates are fragments of himself. Which is why he's the only one who can absorb the plates into himself

 

[Faron25]

After reading the thread and the discussions in the previous pages, all I can do, at this point, is suggest reading the following pages: Game mechanics, Pokémon canon.

And yes, I disagree with the OP.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Because he separated the powers from himself and placed them into plates. That still doesn't contradict the fact that the plates are fragments of himself. Which is why he's the only one who can absorb the plates into himself

You didn’t answer my question. If all pokemon remotely draw power from the plates, why can’t arceus do the same when the plates aren’t with him?

After reading the thread and the discussions in the previous pages, all I can do, at this point, is suggest reading the following pages: Game mechanics, Pokémon canon.

And yes, I disagree with the OP.

And all I can point to is having an actual argument that’s not waving away any weakness or limitation as game mechanics or PIS.

Maybe you can read the page. In order to claim something as game mechanics, you have to provide an example where it is obviously contradicting. You haven’t done that. No has yet to give me a statement or showing that says:

1. Arceus can learn every move.
2. Arceus possesses every Pokemon Ability
3. Arceus has the power of all pokemon and non-pokemon.

so far, all they have is lore statements of the plates which the majority of the staff, including pokemon knowledgeable members have agreed is weak and not sufficient.

But I have given examples Arceus not being able to learn moves, and not even being able to learn moves that his creations can learn, meaning that it is possible for Pokemon to have power independent of Arceus.

I have shown that lore of the plates describe giving Arceus the power to change types and that if the plates were responsible for giving pokemon their individual powers, there are major contradictions:

1. pokemon existed before the plates
2. The plates are infused with the power of the giants who are not stated to be creations of Arceus.
3. The statement pokemon share, the power of the plates, is reffering to the fact that they boost pokemons power as shown in the game, manga, and anime.
4. Arceus cannot draw power from the plates remotely and needs them to be in his possession to use them, but the theory of “pokemon get their powers from the plates” requires pokemon to draw power remotely from the plates. If this theory is correct, why can’t Arceus do the same?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

In the same movie. He compressed stars/galaxies unto himself in his "weakened" state

In fact at the end of the movie, he reversed the crumbling of the ruins.

I just went back and saw the film.

he didn’t compress galaxies and stars. He absorbed the purple and gold energy swirling sround him. You can still see the galaxies behind him when he finishes.

also the fact that he had to bide (pun intended) his time to gather enough energy to strike. Also explains why he was no where to be seen in the previous two movies.

and he reversed the crumbling ruins after he got back his plates in the past. He wasn’t weakened.

 

[Sniper670]

OK. In the end, what you said is irrelevant to the main op, which is largely disagreed on

So your crt ended up being meaningless

Call a mod to close it

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

OK. In the end, what you said is irrelevant to the main op, which is largely disagreed on

So your crt ended up being meaningless

Call a mod to close it

All the staff agree with it dude.

 

[Sniper670]

Please just let me do it, your messing up the links and aren't counting up the people correctly.

Agrees: 8 Regular + 1 Staff (@Iamunanimousinthat, @Hasty12345, @Rikimarox2, @InfiniteDay, @Paul_Frank, @Comicgyal, @DontTalkDT, @JoshSSJGod, @TheGreatMaster12)

Disagrees: 15 Regular + 1 staff (@Yemma670, @Arceus0x, @Chariot190, @Thelastmlg, @The_Pink_God, @JustANormalPerson01, @hajime, @Robot972, @Moritzva, @ZetaMarishi, @Milly_Rocking_Bandit, @Pikaman, @GodlyCharmander, @Luckyfun , @Faron25 @The_real_cal_howard)

Inconclusive/No Opinion: 3 regular + 1 Staff (@Everything12, Agrees with True Form Arceus having everything), @Purgy (fine with Possibly), @Zencha9 (Agreed with True Form Having it), @Vietthai96)

 

[Sniper670]

All the staff agree with it dude.

Ok. I hope you have Immortality type 1, because this is going to be a long wait to get this crt anywhere but the gutters

 

[InfiniteDay]

Please just let me do it, your messing up the links and aren't counting up the people correctly.

Thanks for miscounting Mori and Cal who do not agree with your points but instead for entirely different reasons not related to this CRT.

Yes, agree does outvote disagree because of all staff votes on the basis of this CRT.

 

[Sniper670]

Thanks for miscounting Mori and Cal who do not agree with your points but instead for entirely different reasons not related to this CRT.

Yes, agree does outvote disagree because of all staff votes on the basis of this CRT.

That's false. Disagree CLEARLY out vote agree

 

[Sniper670]

Let me get my plate crt accepted. This thread is irrelevant to that

 

[Arceus0x]

also when did yemma miscount anything? He just wrote that they disagreed with the OP which they absolutely did.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

also when did yemma miscount anything? He just wrote that they disagreed with the OP which they absolutely did.

They agree the reasonings of the plates is not enough and flawed. Which is what this crt is about

 

[Sniper670]

They agree the reasonings of the plates is not enough and flawed. Which is what this crt is about

Oh my f*king God. Things written directly on the plates isn't enough? What is enough for @Iamunanimousinthat about Pokémon btw?

In fact your behavior tells me you're just a hater. That's what I'll keep in mind about you from now.

Bring this nonsense behavior of yours in the plate crt I've made

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Bring this nonsense behavior of yours in the plate crt I've made

You’re literally the one who told me to make this thread

now please stop with the personal attacks

 

[Sniper670]

I guess, I also told you to spam an important staff crt as well too lol

I won't be surprised if the Transduality crt was made because of Arceus.

A very silly behavior if you ask me. Just get something better doing will ya

 

[InfiniteDay]

also when did yemma miscount anything? He just wrote that they disagreed with the OP which they absolutely did.

They actually agreed with the OP that the evidence for Plates were too flimsy, but agree that Reverie is good enough to give Arceus all pokemon powers, however that is not what this CRT is about. I can ask them again if you want.

 

[Arceus0x]

I guess, I also told you to spam an important staff crt as well too lol

I won't be surprised if the Transduality crt was made because of Arceus.

A very silly behavior if you ask me. Just get something better doing will ya

stop antagonizing the opponent if you don't want people to start sympathy voting for them.