Arceus and Creation Trio Revisions (Upgrade or Downgrade?)

[ZephyrosOmega]

So I noticed a few things on Arceus' profile that really need addressing. I'm honestly surprised I haven't seen this brought up, but there very well might be a reason for it that I'm missing.

Before anything, note that Arceus is clearly listed as 2-B. Not 2-A, not high 2-A, just 2-B.

Higher-Dimensional Existence is one of the first things noted on Arceus' profile, as is his lifting strength. As stated in his profile, Arceus embodies his dimension, which exists on a "higher plane". So how exactly is a 2-B character supposed to be higher-dimensional, but also within the realm of a typical 4D world?

Note that Dialga, Palkia and Giratina also have Higher-Dimensional existence, but that's neither here nor there.

So what I bring up is... Considering that we have statements of Arceus' dimension existing on a "Higher Plane", and those are even used to justify the above... How the hell is Arc not listed as High 2-A, at least in his "True" form?

Simply put, these two things can't exist at the same time, so we really either need to remove the higher-dimensional stuff or upgrade Arceus (i don't think the CT would scale since his dimension is explicitly above theirs).

 

[Dragopentling]

Just commenting to see if serious discussions take place here soon

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Because higher plane isn't enough evidence for High 2-A.

Also being 4D already makes you a higher-dimensional being.

 

[Dragopentling]

2A would require one to have influence over a "countable" infinite number of verses. Arceus is yet to be fully confirmed to have that kind of influence.

He does extend to at least a few hundred million universes, though xD.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

What's being suggested here?.

Higher-Dimensional Existence is being beyond the our 3-Dimensional plane. Arceus is a 4-D being is he not? and thus has Higher Dimensional Existence.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

What's being suggested here?.
Higher-Dimensional Existence is being beyond the our 3-Dimensional plane. Arceus is a 4-D being is he not? and thus has Higher Dimensional Existence.

And yet countless other 4D characters aren't listed with higher dimensional existence. For example...

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Cloud_of_Darkness

And considering Arceus' dimension is explicitly above Palkia's and Dialga's, aka Space and Time, wouldn't it make sense to place him as such?

 

[TriforcePower1]

And yet countless other 4D characters aren't listed with higher dimensional existence.

That's because it's an ability that has only "recently" been added, and due to the fact that Tier 1 and 2 characters are locked, a lot of pages still don't have it.

 

[Xerkser500]

Actually, IIRC, it is stated somewhere that Arceus's Dimension lies beyond the CT's but idk if it's enough.

Though I've been looking into some stuff and there may be other evidence of the verse being 5-D.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Need i remind you all that there's literally a 5D feat on his bio that we all agreed on... and then used to justify his lifting strength. Like, explicitly being on a higher plane than space and time should be enough, should it not?

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/393633

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Actually, IIRC, it is stated somewhere that Arceus's Dimension lies beyond the CT's but idk if it's enough.
Though I've been looking into some stuff and there may be other evidence of the verse being 5-D.

Well let's hear it then!

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

And yet countless other 4D characters aren't listed with higher dimensional existence. For example...

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Cloud_of_Darkness

And considering Arceus' dimension is explicitly above Palkia's and Dialga's, aka Space and Time, wouldn't it make sense to place him as such?

Are you sure it isn't because they're 3D with 4D power?

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Also being above space and time isn't the same as transcending it completely.

 

[Xerkser500]

I'm pretty sure we've never went with the Creation Trio being 3-D beings whatsoever.

Do you mean their Avatars specifically?

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

CT are 4D, there's no doubt about that.

I was referring to when he asked about how countless other 4D characters aren't listed with higher-dimensional existence.

 

[Xerkser500]

Oh, then my bad.

I thought u were talking about them specifically. Costs of not reading well the first time lol

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Not to mention Arceus literally existed before Space-time even existed.

 

[Zeifyl]

Hmm... This looks interesting.

 

[Xerkser500]

Well let's hear it then!

I'll post what I found later. Out atm

I'll also try and find the statement in Jewel of Life where its said Arceus's dimension lies beyond Dialga and Palkias for what its worth to the orignal topic.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Not to mention Arceus literally existed before Space-time even existed.

I believe we had multiple discussions about that but I don't remember.

You should go to the Knowledgeable Members List and message those knowledgeable about Pokemon and ask them to comment.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

^Not even an AP feat. At best it's infinite speed.

 

[Xerkser500]

Yeah not an AP feat

However, how come existing before the concept of time doesn't make one immeasurable according to here? I never understood that.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Because time = 0 in areas that lack time. To be immeasurable, your movement has to be beyond the linear progression of time.

 

[Xerkser500]

Hmm I think I understand now

 

[Xerkser500]

Back home now

Anyway, here's the Jewel of Life statement that falls in line with what the OP's saying. According to Sheena in the dub, Arceus's dimension is "on top of" Dialga and Palkia's when displaying the Time-Space axis.

Here's a gif of the sub incase anyone asks. The sub doesnt contradict the dub in this case as Sheena in the sub says "and one more", which doesnt invalidate "on top of that" as said in the dub. The dub is more an add on, so the dub should be debatably usuable in this specific case.

Not taking a side, but just offering a piece of info that I know goes with the OP.

 

[ThatDarnFish]

Feels like "On top of that" in this case was used more like "as well as" or "and also", more so than literally above them. Not to mention they look more like they orbit Arceus' realm on the Space Time Axis

 

[Xerkser500]

Thats...a very fair counter.

Not that I sided with it in the 1st place but that's reasonable.

By the way, out of curiosity, how does this site treat the Spirit World?

 

[Antvasima]

I believe we had multiple discussions about that but I don't remember.

You should go to the Knowledgeable Members List and message those knowledgeable about Pokemon and ask them to comment.

This is correct, yes. You can also use the supporters & neutral sections of the Pokémo verse page to find staff members to ask.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

While I'm hoping for something ending with an A for an upgrade for Arceus eventually, this ain't it right now. It's only grounds for immeasurable speed, which Arceus has and more.

 

[Zeifyl]

While I'm hoping for something ending with an A for an upgrade for Arceus eventually, this ain't it right now. It's only grounds for immeasurable speed, which Arceus has and more.

What, you don't want an upgrade that ends with C?

 

[Antvasima]

@Cal

So should we close this, or wait a bit longer?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

We should probs close

 

[Xerkser500]

By the way, out of curiosity, how does this site treat the Spirit World?

 

[Antvasima]

I will close this. The original topic has been dealt with.