Aqua's Resistance to Death Manipulation and Others

[Elizhaa]

Aqua should have Resistance to Death Manipulation which is something I honestly thought she would have since Wiz, Vanir, and even weaker monsters have the resistance, particularly from her high status as a Goddess.

@Gabriel made a great point here. Aqua's divine aura passively purify dark magic based effect so death manipulation resistance should be included.

Also, I don't like the fact Holy Manipulation is evidence for a lot resistances. I rather her resistance scaled to her max magic resistance stats from other characters with high magic resistance stats like Darkness for resistance to Death Magic

 

[Elizhaa]

bump

 

[Jasonsith]

Does it help if I concur?

 

[Elizhaa]

Does it help if I concur?

Any evaluation is appreciated and help, @Jasonsith.

 

[Akreious]

Why would Aqua scale to these guys? The examples you listed in the OP right now are Undead themselves so they're naturally resistant to Death Manipulation. They're already dead.

Gabriel's point there makes... weird sense. Aqua's Divine Aura passively purifies Dark Magic Based Effects; Death Manipulation is not inherently Dark Magic. At least not across all of fiction. Case in point, the opponent in that very same thread. We know karma-based Spells exist in Overlord.

Ex. "Uriel: A 10th tier spell that deals fire-type damage. It was the kind of spell that could be learned by a magic caster of any type as long as the requirements to learn it were met. However, this spell only did its listed damage when cast by a magic caster with a maxed-out positive karma value. Its damage decreased as one's karma value decreased. For Ainz with negative karma value, it would do less damage than a first-tier spell."

So she should resist these types of spells and such on a Case-By-Case basis and should not be given a universal "resistance", or if we were to give her a resistance we should specify it's circumstantial; that the opposing spell should have good reason to be of a Dark-Magic based spell.

To bring up a verse again, Overlord's Death Manipulation is not inherently evil. A maxed-out Positive Karma Hero can still use Death Manipulation spells such as [Death] and [Grasp Heart] with no problems and still retain their full Karma status.

tl;dr, unless a Spell has substantial/good reason to be listed as "Dark Type" in Konosuba, there should be no reason that Aqua would be able to resist it. She should not scale with Characters such as Wiz or Vanir and Weaker Monsters as if I'm recalling correctly, those characters are in fact already dead or under special circumstances.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Literally A more in dephth version of what I posted in the thread, Im in agreement Akreious, Aqua shouldn't gain death resistance just because some UNDEAD have it.

A spell having similar effects to those seen in konosuba shouldn't make it inherintly evil, especially when the opposing verse has its own karmic magic. Those spells that require evil alignment should be considered evil to aquas holy aura, but if the spell is nuetral in the opposing verse it should be equalized to being nuetral by knosuba standards.

 

[NeoSuperior]

You shouldn't bring up another verse in a CRT like this, period. These comparisons are invalid. Any arguments must be made entirely within the verse itself. I know you like Overlord, but you shouldn't allow the on-going match to influence this CRT, escpacially with flawed reasoning like that. Overlord having Karmic magic is entirely unrelated to Konosuba.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

My whole point was if other series have there own karmic magic system that should be equalized to knosuba's, if its not specified either way I can see the argument being made for spells with a similar effect but if another series has its own version of karmic magic only the spell considered evil by that system should be equalized.

Overlord just happens to be a good example as it has such a system. Though i wont mention it agian.

My point still remains, why would a goddess have the same resistances as the undead?

 

[NeoSuperior]

NO, it shouldn't. There might be other verses where Death Magic = Evil. Why should Konosuba be specifically equalized to how Overlord's system works and not some other verse?

I mean you are free to argue your points if it's within the bounds of the Konosubaverse, but things like Akreious posting a scan from Overlord is completely out of place here and just makes you sound like your intent is to help Ainz win his match.

It's just rude.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Im not saying it should specifically equalize to overlord, it should equalize to whatever verse its facing if that verse has karmic magic already in play.

In another verse if a fire spell can only be cast by a person of evil alignment aqaus aura should block that, if the spell can only be cast by someone who is pure it wouldn't block that regardless of the nature of the spell.

I wont lie my main point here isn't against the holy aura just trying to figure out how to treat it with verse equalization and other forms of karmic magic.

Still curious why aqau would gain a scaled resistance to death from undead having it.

edit of course in a verse lacking karmic value I could see the argument that equilzation would assign karmic values to spells of a similar nature.

 

[NeoSuperior]

Again, you are refering to the VS thread, but that's irrelevant. You are free to argue that the possible deathhax resistance from Aqua is different from whatever Ainz is using against her in that VS thread. However that would still be a completely seperate issue from this CRT and any changes to Aqua's profile it does.

In other words, those comparisons don't belong here.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Im not actually, Im referring to verse equlization and how to treat karmic magic equalization. As from what I can tell aquas aura blocks things based on there inherinet evil properties, how does that work with other verses that define the evilness of spells differently.

Honstly im intereseted, should konosubas system overwrite any other? Do we treat them the same? Case by case basis?

Aplogies, not overly relevent here I suppose. Im fine with the holy aura though i suspect it will spawn many discussions. As for death resistance im still not clear on why she's scaling to the undead?

 

[Paul_Frank]

The evilness system would equalize to konosuba's system

The same way what is considered natural for imagine breaker equalizes to to aru's system and the same way different energies equalize within verses

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

So If a verse already has a karmic magic system in place only the spells considered evil by that system would be blocked by aquas holy aura? Or would aquas system overwrite certain spells an make them evil alligned to fit in with konosuba?

 

[Paul_Frank]

The second

 

[Elizhaa]

So If a verse already has a karmic magic system in place only the spells considered evil by that system would be blocked by aquas holy aura? Or would aquas system overwrite certain spells an make them evil alligned to fit in with konosuba?

Aqua's holy aura would blocked Spell based on Darkness Manipulation and Death Manipulation by verse equalization.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Interesting overall, Im still curios why aquas gaining death resistance based on what other creatures have. But overall this seems fine to me.

 

[Daaffy]

Seredina and Vanir death spell can't instant kill Darkness because she have high magical resistance. except int and luck all of Aqua's stats are Maximum.

 

[Elizhaa]

Seredina and Vanir death spell can't instant kill Darkness because she have high magical resistance. except int and luck all of Aqua's stats are Maximum.

I think there could scaling here too.

 

[NeoSuperior]

Which stat is responsible for Magic Defense?

 

[Daaffy]

not sure but Darkness upgrade magic resistance because she need resist Kazuma drain touch and Aqua can resist it.

teleport magic won't work on Darkness because she have high magic resistance and Aqua can do it too. Megumin can do ti because she have high level

 

[Elizhaa]

I agree with Daaffy's points. I don't which euther but the Darkness's high magic resistance stats should scaled to Aqua's feats since she has max stats except in intelligence and in luck.

 

[Daaffy]

@Elizhaa

Vanir every magic can bypass magic resistance like Crimson Demon but Darkness can survived because she have high magic resistance.

this feat can add resistance to resistance negation in her profile?

 

[S.T.A.L.K.B.E.R.2]

@Elizhaa
Vanir every magic can bypass magic resistance like Crimson Demon but Darkness can survived because she have high magic resistance.

this feat can add resistance to resistance negation in her profile?

I agree with this and Aqua scaling to party members.

 

[Elizhaa]

@Elizhaa
Vanir every magic can bypass magic resistance like Crimson Demon but Darkness can survived because she have high magic resistance.

this feat can add resistance to resistance negation in her profile?

If someone with high magic defense stats can resist Resistance Negation then it should scale to Aqua too.

 

[Gabriel_00]

Am i the only one that thinks aqua's profile is poorly done, she has resistance to BFR insted of spatial manipulation due to not being affected by telepoprtation magic, can she resist being thrown into space then? She should have some form of resistance to Death Manipulation due to magic resistance and her holy aura and her profile never especifys her resistances and because of that she has Holy manipulation mentioned like 3 times on her powers and abilities section. and magic absorbsion shoul be removed.

 

[Elizhaa]

All 8-B or above characters can throw people into space with pure Ap. But those comparable to these can still blocked this type of BFR via similar AP statistics.


I don't like the fact Holy Manipulation is evidence for a lot resistances. I rather her resistance scaled to her max magic resistance stats from other characters with high magic resistance stats like Darkness.

 

[Gabriel_00]

She has high magic resistance but she is especially powerfull against dark magic

my point of her being thrown into space is that she doesn't have resistance to BFR but resistance to spatial manipulation due to being able to negate a teleportation.

 

[Daaffy]

Done?

 

[Elizhaa]

bump

 

[Gemmysaur]

It says she has high resistance to darkness-based magic. Imo, just put that in her profile, with an additional note that it includes death manipulation.

 

[Elizhaa]

It says she has high resistance to darkness-based magic. Imo, just put that in her profile, with an additional note that it includes death manipulation.

I made the changes.

 

[I_am_myself_You_are_you]

Yeah, Aqua should have it.

 

[Gabriel_00]

I'll revive this because i don't think it's necessary to create a CRT. Aqua should have Resistance do Spatial Manipulation due to being able to resist being forcefully teleported instead of resistance to BFR as she can't actually resist all kinds of BFR.

 

[FDrybob]

How can you be sure it's specifically a resistance to spatial manipulation and not a resistance to teleportation magic?

 

[Gabriel_00]

Teleportation magic is spatial manipulation, i'm not saying she is resistant to all forms of spatial manipulation

 

[FDrybob]

I know that, I'm just saying that doesn't it fall under her resistance to magic? Or is it separate somehow?

 

[Gabriel_00]

Magic resistance is too vague and it is better to clarify it.