Apostle of God vs Zenon

[Arkenis]

Apostle

Zenon

equal speed
100 meters distance

Noint:
Zogratis:
Incon:

 

[Arnoldstone18]

So what stops Apostle from getting fruit ninja’d

 

[Kachon123]

Zenon has an AP gap of 1.2x, which is miniscule. Apostles can apparently reduce the damage of attacks (made something that would kill her give her injuries instead). She can also just use her deconstruction that will negate Zenon's regen. Apostles can create clones that will fight alongside her. She also has Darkness Magic, which Zenon is weak to. Danmaku, Instinctive Reaction, Durability Negation, Resistance to Spacial Manipulation, and resistance to Soul Manipulation.

My Vote goes to Apostles mid diff at best.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Zenon has an AP gap of 1.2x, which is miniscule. Apostles can apparently reduce the damage of attacks (made something that would kill her give her injuries instead). She can also just use her deconstruction that will negate Zenon's regen. Apostles can create clones that will fight alongside her. She also has Darkness Magic, which Zenon is weak to. Danmaki, Instinctive Reaction, Durability Negation, Resistance to Spacial Manipulation, and resistance to Sould Manipulation.

My Vote goes to Apostles mid diff at best.

Zenon is weak to Dark magic because it’s arcane. Saying Zenon is weak to darkness magic because he is weak to dark magic is association fallacy, because you have to prove that Apostle’s Darkness magic is arcane too.

I’ll respond to the rest from my laptop when I get home.

 

[Kachon123]

Zenon is weak to Dark magic because it’s arcane. Saying Zenon is weak to darkness magic because he is weak to dark magic is association fallacy, because you have to prove that Apostle’s Darkness magic is arcane too.

I’ll respond to the rest from my laptop when I get home.

Didn't know that. Still voting Apostles.

 

[Arkenis]

Didn't know that. Still voting Apostles.

based off? nvm

 

[Kachon123]

based off?

Everything else I said?

 

[Kachon123]

Apostles can apparently reduce the damage of attacks (made something that would kill her give her injuries instead). She can also just use her deconstruction that will negate Zenon's regen. Apostles can create clones that will fight alongside her.

Danmaku, Instinctive Reaction, Durability Negation, Resistance to Spacial Manipulation, and resistance to Sould Manipulation

 

[Arkenis]

She can also just use her deconstruction that will negate Zenon's regen

how does it work

Durability Negation

how does it work

 

[Kachon123]

how does it work

Deconstruction

how does it work

With her deconstruction/disintegration.

 

[Kachon123]

She also has Absolute Zero magic, which would instantly freeze Zenon.

 

[Noneless21]

You might want to wait for expectro, he's the most knowledgable on Arifureta

Anyway, let's talk bout Apostle's first moves, her first move is basically mind control, if he resist that then she will resort her decon dura neg homing danmaku feather that can also be used as a shield

Also, her swords also laced with desintigration magic, which is decon, which is dura neg

 

[Kachon123]

She also has Absolute Zero magic, which would instantly freeze Zenon.

 

[Kachon123]

She can also overwrite his memories.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Zenon has an AP gap of 1.2x, which is miniscule. Apostles can apparently reduce the damage of attacks (made something that would kill her give her injuries instead). She can also just use her deconstruction that will negate Zenon's regen. Apostles can create clones that will fight alongside her. She also has Darkness Magic, which Zenon is weak to. Danmaku, Instinctive Reaction, Durability Negation, Resistance to Spacial Manipulation, and resistance to Sould Manipulation.

My Vote goes to Apostles mid diff at best.

Okay broski

First of all, Zenon sends her to another dimension. One Instant Wincon.

Secondly, Zenon scales above his AP rating and has demon and reinforcement magic amps to all stats, Not the gap is not minuscule, but not massive either. Luckily Zenon possesses dainsleif. What does the resistance to spatial manipulation look like? because Zenon's danmaku is him spamming several giant slashes that can cut through space.

Third, Zenon literally battled Yuno's passive deconstruction and how would that counter his regen? Zenon will always regen as long as his heart is intact. You need purification to get through the heart.

 

[Noneless21]

First of all, Zenon sends her to another dimension. One Instant Wincon.

How did this bfr works?

Secondly, Zenon scales above his AP rating and has demon and reinforcement magic amps to all stats, Not the gap is not minuscule, but not massive either. Luckily Zenon possesses dainsleif. What does the resistance to spatial manipulation look like? because Zenon's danmaku is him spamming several giant slashes that can cut through space.

She did resist getting cut through space yeah, and the spatial manip at Arifureta is law and limited CM type 2 based

Third, Zenon literally battled Yuno's passive deconstruction and how would that counter his regen? Zenon will always regen as long as his heart is intact. You need purification to get through the heart.

She also have purification of all types, which she will know that she need to use it to kill him since she got some great emhanced sense like every major character at Arifureta

 

[Arkenis]

What does the resistance to spatial manipulation look like

says she can attack through space.

 

[Kachon123]

First of all, Zenon sends her to another dimension. One Instant Wincon.

Apostles has resistance to spacial manipulation, and can move through space back to the battlefield.

Secondly, Zenon scales above his AP rating and has demon and reinforcement magic amps to all stats, Not the gap is not minuscule, but not massive either

If he is higher than his rating unquantifiable amount, then the gap is still the same. It is still 1.2x.

What does the resistance to spatial manipulation look like? because Zenon's danmaku is him spamming several giant slashes that can cut through space.

She did resist getting cut through space yeah, and the spatial manip at Arifureta is law and limited CM type 2 based

Third, Zenon literally battled Yuno's passive deconstruction and how would that counter his regen? Zenon will always regen as long as his heart is intact. You need purification to get through the heart.

She has purification, and hers was able to instantly disintegrate a pillar much bigger than Zenon to particles finer than sand. Her deconstruction/disintegration has durability negation, so it would instantly kill Zenon.

 

[Noneless21]

Btw, what key is this Zenon? If this is first key which is low 6-B, 6-B using devil power, we can use her limit break, which is 3 times stat amps of all kind, including speed

 

[Arnoldstone18]

How did this bfr works?

The man just casually traps you in a subspace.

She did resist getting cut through space yeah, and the spatial manip at Arifureta is law and limited CM type 2 based

What are Law and conceptual manipulation doing in this tournament lol.

She also have purification of all types, which she will know that she need to use it to kill him since she got some great emhanced sense like every major character at Arifureta

Seems like we got a potential smurf on our hands. but purification is okay, at least she can kill him.

says she can attack through space.

I dont get it, Is the scan above her resistance to spatial manipulation?

Apostles has resistance to spacial manipulation, and can move through space back to the battlefield.

noted.

but let me at least see what it looks like.

If he is higher than his rating unquantifiable amount, then the gap is still the same. It is still 1.2x.

No, it just means it's higher but I get the point.

She has purification, and hers was able to instantly disintegrate a pillar much bigger than Zenon to particles finer than sand. Her deconstruction/disintegration has durability negation, so it would instantly kill Zenon.

....

What does deconstruction with durability negation mean? though that doesn't matter because Zenon can still instantly regen and can resist Yuno's presence which deconstructs matter.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Btw, what key is this Zenon? If this is first key which is low 6-B, 6-B using devil power, we can use her limit break, which is 3 times stat amps of all kind, including speed

All 6B keys

She also has to be 6B so shes already at Limit breaker.

 

[Kachon123]

The man just casually traps you in a subspace.



What are Law and conceptual manipulation doing in this tournament lol.



Seems like we got a potential smurf on our hands. but purification is okay, at least she can kill him.



I dont get it, Is the scan above her resistance to spatial manipulation?


noted.

but let me at least see what it looks like.



No, it just means it's higher but I get the point.




....

What does deconstruction with durability negation mean? though that doesn't matter because Zenon can still instantly regen and can resist Yuno's presence which deconstructs matter.

His regen goes up to bones. She disintegrates up to particles finer than sand. Zenon can not regenerate from sand.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

His regen goes up to bones. She disintegrates up to particles finer than sand. Zenon can not regenerate from sand.

What are you talking about?

As long as Zenon's heart is intact, he regens from any damage.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Zenon also has resistance to mind manipulation and danmaku with his bone magic too which is used for both attack and defense. Power nullification with spatial domination, which gives him complete control over magin in a wide zone. can be countered by those stronger than him, loved by mana, or mana zone which would lst for a limited amount of time.


Edit: Superior lifting strength and piercing damage on top of his AP gap too. So Zenon can impale her several times to immobilize her.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

can be countered by those stronger than him

Or simply comparable

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Or simply comparable

You sure?

Though that doesn't matter here since Zenon is stronger than her.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

What are Law and conceptual manipulation doing in this tournament lol.

just doing spatial hax

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Okay broski

First of all, Zenon sends her to another dimension. One Instant Wincon.

Secondly, Zenon scales above his AP rating and has demon and reinforcement magic amps to all stats, Not the gap is not minuscule, but not massive either. Luckily Zenon possesses dainsleif. What does the resistance to spatial manipulation look like? because Zenon's danmaku is him spamming several giant slashes that can cut through space.

Third, Zenon literally battled Yuno's passive deconstruction and how would that counter his regen? Zenon will always regen as long as his heart is intact. You need purification to get through the heart.

If the bfr is done via portals then she can probably instinctively know that something will appear and just dodge beforehand. She could also potentially resist the thing do to resist the spatial magic, which is ancient magic (law and conceptual manip Type 2 + specific haxs depending of the type of ancient magic), from Naiz who have layered spatial manip (easily like 6 layers or more just from memory). She can also disintegrate spatial magic so that's another way to counter that.

The amps are a fair point since she already have active her Limit Break, though Apostles can fight against stronger people than them since the disintegration ignore durability (some examples are 7-B Apostles damaging a tier 6 shield from Hajime or when an Apostle damaged the roots and core of the world tree Uralt who is tier 6, possibly 5 depending on how one scale her). The spatial resistance come from she getting completely unaffected by Naiz spatial attacks which ignore durability, rip apart space, made it explode, etc.

To be fair Zenon don't have resistance to deconstruction listed in his profile so it should affect him based in the profile, Silver Apostles disintegration is also layered (Zero Apostles < current Apostles < Silver Apostles). Futhermore her disintegration can disintegrate ancient magics like gravity magic (from vol 4 Miledi which is honestly absurd), spatial magic (from Naiz) and restoration magic (time manip, from vol 4 Meiru), so isn't your average disintegration/deconstruction.

About the purification part, light magic in general is holy in nature and she have currently added the general justification from that, however in the case of Apostles all their magic is holy in nature, this because their magic and powers come directly from Ehit (reason of why their magic color is silver, which no other being have aside from Ehit and his forces) who is the strongest god in Tortus and who's power come directly from the faith of people in him (their faith in that he is an almighty god, that he is a supreme being, that he is goodness itself, there is also mixed the fear and hate from those that know his true nature and those who were crushed by his absurdity, everything together change his existence itself and make him stronger) which have be accumulated for countless thousands of years, in the afterstories was also revealed that they also were partially affected by said faith since they are the embodiment of his authority at the world eyes (they are his angels so is honestly normal). In short, all their nature itself is holy.

The man just casually traps you in a subspace.



What are Law and conceptual manipulation doing in this tournament lol.



Seems like we got a potential smurf on our hands. but purification is okay, at least she can kill him.



I dont get it, Is the scan above her resistance to spatial manipulation?

From what I see from the images of his profile she can easily disintegrate his things, she could disintegrate the gravity and time manip from Miledi and Meiru which have less defined figures so things with actual shapes like cubes and so are much easier targets.

She don't have law and concept manip, that's from ancient magic and she lack ancient magic, she resist and can disintegrate ancient magic however.

Smurf are from higher d things, which she don't have.

The scan for the spatial manip resistance that is in her profile is here.

Zenon also has resistance to mind manipulation and danmaku with his bone magic too which is used for both attack and defense. Power nullification with spatial domination, which gives him complete control over magin in a wide zone. can be countered by those stronger than him, loved by mana, or mana zone which would lst for a limited amount of time.


Edit: Superior lifting strength and piercing damage on top of his AP gap too. So Zenon can impale her several times to immobilize her.

How high is his resistance to mind manip? Apostles mind manip have various layers (normal dark magicians < Shimizu < Eri < Zero chruch < normal Apostles <<<<< Silver Apostles, heck Silver Apostles were even capable of affect for a bit Shia who on top of having busted supernatural willpower also had Soul Shell level defences (like 10 layers of mind and soul manip)).

Danmaku is not a problem since she have faced several enemies with high levels of danmaku and she herself also have her own danmaku with feathers and magic.

She have like 4 layers of powernull, (her feathers also affected the roots and even core of Uralt, which had so much anti-magic (powernull) properties that not even the Liberators were capables of affect them), she can also disintegrate the spatial cubes since as said before she can disintegrate Naiz spatial magic and other ancient magics. Additionally, can Zenon null biological abilities? Since the Apostles disintegration is special magic which is directly engraved in the Apostles body by Ehit, and based on when Hajime eated fodder monster meat and had his molecules changed with special magic the effects of special magic are at least of a molecular scale, is also possible that in Apostles case their special magic is of a deeper level since Ehit probably engraved the magic on them with creation and/or metamorphosis magic (both are Matter manipulation which essentially have absolute control of all inorganic and organic matter respectively). Also from what I reading the Spatial Mana Domination can be countered by those comparable to him so in principle Apostles should fulfill that, their mana pool is also infinite (since it come from Ehit) so I'm not sure if he could be able to control all of it.

Superior LS is a fair point since I still don't make the crt updating their LS with the Class E from the feat they literally scale. Apostles also have piercing damage though, along with the disintegration part, and their superior skill is another thing that will help her. Impaling could be an option but since she can move her weapons, feathers and spells with the mind I don't know how useful that would be, Apostles also don't care about pain and can fight as if nothing with their chest pierced, weakened, body burned and without an arm (everything from the first fight against an Apostle in Zero vol 1).


Now, since the comment is already really long will talk briefly about Apostles, mind manip is their first move, after that is disintegration, then ranged attacks (be it with disintegration and/or magic) along with physical combat. About her magic options she generally tend to begin and use more fire magic, specifically Hellfire Tsunami since it cover a good range and the heat of an advanced spell from fire magic is quite high (intermediate level spells already melt rock with their residual heat and advanced spells easily scale far above 3000 celsius), though she can actually use any spell from any element instantly.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Aw man I'm really going to debate like this again... alright lets do this.

If the bfr is done via portals then she can probably instinctively know that something will appear and just dodge beforehand. She could also potentially resist the thing do to resist the spatial magic, which is ancient magic (law and conceptual manip Type 2 + specific haxs depending of the type of ancient magic), from Naiz who have layered spatial manip (easily like 6 layers or more just from memory). She can also disintegrate spatial magic so that's another way to counter that.

The BFR is not done via portal, it is done by literally teleporting her to another dimension. You can't instinctively dodge that because there is nothing to dodge. Just because she resisted space slashed apart does not mean she resists being teleported to another dimension, that requires resistance to BFR. On a side note, Zenon too should possess a layer above Naiz's spatial manipulation but he doesn't really need it to win thanks to power nullification Law and Conceptual manipulation are not even allowed in this tournament.

The amps are a fair point since she already have active her Limit Break, though Apostles can fight against stronger people than them since the disintegration ignore durability (some examples are 7-B Apostles damaging a tier 6 shield from Hajime or when an Apostle damaged the roots and core of the world tree Uralt who is tier 6, possibly 5 depending on how one scale her). The spatial resistance come from she getting completely unaffected by Naiz spatial attacks which ignore durability, rip apart space, made it explode, etc.

Noted. Zenon not only has resistance to disintegration by fighting CQC with Yuno who has passive matter disintegration, but he can immediately regenerate damages inflicted on him. Zenon is also completely unaffected by Langris' spatial magic in Devil form.

To be fair Zenon don't have resistance to deconstruction listed in his profile so it should affect him based in the profile, Silver Apostles disintegration is also layered (Zero Apostles < current Apostles < Silver Apostles). Futhermore her disintegration can disintegrate ancient magics like gravity magic (from vol 4 Miledi which is honestly absurd), spatial magic (from Naiz) and restoration magic (time manip, from vol 4 Meiru), so isn't your average disintegration/deconstruction.

He still has resistance from fighting Yuno and he can simpy regenerate.

About the purification part, light magic in general is holy in nature and she have currently added the general justification from that, however in the case of Apostles all their magic is holy in nature, this because their magic and powers come directly from Ehit (reason of why their magic color is silver, which no other being have aside from Ehit and his forces) who is the strongest god in Tortus and who's power come directly from the faith of people in him (their faith in that he is an almighty god, that he is a supreme being, that he is goodness itself, there is also mixed the fear and hate from those that know his true nature and those who were crushed by his absurdity, everything together change his existence itself and make him stronger) which have be accumulated for countless thousands of years, in the afterstories was also revealed that they also were partially affected by said faith since they are the embodiment of his authority at the world eyes (they are his angels so is honestly normal). In short, all their nature itself is holy.

Noted.

From what I see from the images of his profile she can easily disintegrate his things, she could disintegrate the gravity and time manip from Miledi and Meiru which have less defined figures so things with actual shapes like cubes and so are much easier targets.

She don't have law and concept manip, that's from ancient magic and she lack ancient magic, she resist and can disintegrate ancient magic however.

Smurf are from higher d things, which she don't have.

The scan for the spatial manip resistance that is in her profile is here.

How can she disintegrate space? She is literally teleported away from the battlefield to a separate dimension. I doubt she can escape without ancient magic she does not possess. And you have not mentioned anything resistance to BFR feat. She does resist spatial attack spells so dainsleif is useless here. Its good she does not have law and CM.

So she can disintegrate Law Manipulation and CM?

How high is his resistance to mind manip? Apostles mind manip have various layers (normal dark magicians < Shimizu < Eri < Zero chruch < normal Apostles <<<<< Silver Apostles, heck Silver Apostles were even capable of affect for a bit Shia who on top of having busted supernatural willpower also had Soul Shell level defences (like 10 layers of mind and soul manip)).

I have no idea who these names are. I sorta hate arguing dark, especially on the topic of "layered resistances"

Anyway in black clover, magic power boost allows a mage to add layers to their resistances and negate the resistances of weaker mages. Therefore there are many layers of hax within the verse, especially soul (from Elf reincarnation, to Devil possessions). Zenon can resist mind manipulation of anyone above Neige's mind manipulation in Black Clover, Zenon's devil physiology also grants him an even extra layered mind manipulation resistance. As a high ranking devil he is superior to Mid and Low ranking devils' resistances. Even Leibe can resist mind manipulation and he is the lowest of the low-ranking devils. Too many Layers to count.

Lastly, what is the point of all this if you cant even use it? the argument of power nullification persists. Which I will get to right after my next response to your point on danmaku.

Danmaku is not a problem since she have faced several enemies with high levels of danmaku and she herself also have her own danmaku with feathers and magic.

Zenon's danmaku with bone magic isn't projectile based. his bones cover ground in massive numbers and they dont go anywhere which makes it almost impossible to dodge as more time passes due to limited space left by the bones.

Zenon in human form at 50% power was capable of doing this with bone magic. His bone magic can regenerate faster than Yuno's spirit dive could disintegrate them. Zenon finished him off at 55%. Zenon highest in this match-up is in devil form which puts his bone magic far above 100%. each percent holds far greater than the last so he is far above 55% at 100%. Zenon's danmaku's ability to cover ground, and limit the space, along with sheer numbers and extremely fast-paced regen to counter disintegration, makes this very high level, attack, and defense danmaku.

She have like 4 layers of powernull, (her feathers also affected the roots and even core of Uralt, which had so much anti-magic (powernull) properties that not even the Liberators were capables of affect them), she can also disintegrate the spatial cubes since as said before she can disintegrate Naiz spatial magic and other ancient magics. Additionally, can Zenon null biological abilities? Since the Apostles disintegration is special magic which is directly engraved in the Apostles body by Ehit, and based on when Hajime eated fodder monster meat and had his molecules changed with special magic the effects of special magic are at least of a molecular scale, is also possible that in Apostles case their special magic is of a deeper level since Ehit probably engraved the magic on them with creation and/or metamorphosis magic (both are Matter manipulation which essentially have absolute control of all inorganic and organic matter respectively). Also from what I reading the Spatial Mana Domination can be countered by those comparable to him so in principle Apostles should fulfill that, their mana pool is also infinite (since it come from Ehit) so I'm not sure if he could be able to control all of it.

Noted. Mages can also have up to 2 layers by default which are Mana skin which is created by pure magic power aura and Manazone which grants the user control over surrounding magic. Manazone is typically higher than Mana skin aura. Zenon does not have mana zone but he has mana skin because all mages have mana skin aura. Zenon also has shown 2 more ways of power nullification which are Absolute space, and a layer above this, Absolute Space: Spatial domination. Spatial mages naturally cancel each other out. Below is an example of spatial manipulation/power nullification resistance.

Yami and Jack nullified Elf Langris' Defense Zone > Langris keeps this spell he had in his Elf form = Elf Langris Defense Zone resistance (Finral cant completely cancel this out) > Finral's Archangel beat which nullifies spatial magic alone he can also cast the spell in his presence > Elf Langris presence > Elf Langris Archangel Crash > Langris Archangel Crash...

Yami and Jack were struggling at first till they used spatial manipulation to cancel it out

so i will only use those with spatial manipulation throughout this response so I can simultaneously show you the layers for spatial manipulation as well. His power nullification and spatial manipulation layers together should look like this:

Devil Zenon's Devil > Langris and Finral's combined resistance (together they are able to cast spells within Devil Zenon's range) > Devil Zenon's Spatial domination > Devil Zenon's Absolute Space (There is no way for Langris alone to fight Zenon at this point) > Devil Zenon's Mana skin aura > Langris Manazone's Power Nullification > 100% Devil power Zenon (Human) Bone magic > Langris' Manazone's resistance > 100% Devil power Zenon (Human) Absolute Space: Spatial Domination ( This version of absolute space completely annihilated Archangel Destruction which was used to counter the lesser version Absolute Space) > 100% Devil power Zenon (Human) Absolute Space > 50% Devil power Zenon (Human) Absolute Space: spatial domination > Langris' Archangel Destruction (Spatial mages can resist each other's power null, canceling them out; Langris used this spell to counter Absolute space) > 50% human Zenon's Absolute Space > Langris' Archangel Crash > 50% human Zenon's resistance (can cast spells in both Yuno and Langris' presence) > Langris power nullification cant cancel any of Zenon's magic.

It isn't limited to this because you have Langris developing his power nullification and resistances throughout several fights in the series. I gave an example above. And it ends there for spatial manipulation but not power nullification because Langris' Mana skin is more layered than fodder with basic mana skin, I didn't even factor Yuno at all, and 50% Vanica who is comparable to 50% Zenon has decaying world which is power null layered past Noelle's own layered power null past underwater sea temple's power null. Devil Zenon is layered above all of that. And Zenon's spatial manipulation should work against her.

Zenon has about 6 layers of spatial manipulation and power nullification which is basically overkill at this point if I continue.

Spatial domination is a Zone, not a Space Cube.

Furthermore. Those who are comparable outside of black clover still need to possess the same amount of layers that come with being comparable, Like I said, Characters in black clover gain higher resistances as they get stronger. This is why Zenon stated Yuno and Langris have to surpass him because they will gain further resistance to power nullification. Associating Black Clover verse mechanics to another verse that does not follow the same intricate system is an association fallacy. Just because all black clover mages improve their hax layers by getting stronger does not mean other verses gain layers. Her power nullification is limited on her page so you have to prove She matches those layers.

Superior LS is a fair point since I still don't make the crt updating their LS with the Class E from the feat they literally scale. Apostles also have piercing damage though, along with the disintegration part, and their superior skill is another thing that will help her. Impaling could be an option but since she can move her weapons, feathers and spells with the mind I don't know how useful that would be, Apostles also don't care about pain and can fight as if nothing with their chest pierced, weakened, body burned and without an arm (everything from the first fight against an Apostle in Zero vol 1).

Can she move her weapons through those walls of bones with her mind, while busy fighting off other bones spawning from nowhere to further attack her? I think she will be overwhelmed and I don't think her telekinesis would work in Spatial domination without proper resistance. So impaling her and preventing her from moving while simultaneously throwing more bones at her till she's dead.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is how the fight will go.

Devil Zenon starts by removing her from the battle field, that is one wincon as she has no BFR resistance feat. his magic aura power nullification is passive but he will still use spatial domination to nullify her arsenal and pevent her from casting any spell. Zenon will try his absolute best to refrain from close quarters combat by spamming so many bones to block her path, and immobilize her. These bones resist disintegration and regenerate faster than they disintegrate in the event that they do disintegrate. If he forced to go CQC he spams bones to hold her down for a finishing strike. If Naiz's spatial slashes are layered past Zenon's then Zenon wont use it as a third win con.

Zenon's stat amps from rage power, devil magic, reinforcement magic, and passive mana absorption should overwhelm her in speed and power.

The result of the match will be her in a dimension or her being immobiized and overwhelmed with DDanmaku or her simply being overwhelmed in speed and power from various amps.

So what do you say?

going to rest a bit.

 

[Arkenis]

The BFR is not done via portal, it is done by literally teleporting her to another dimension

could we see that? cause Zenon doesn't have teleporting on his page

 

[Arnoldstone18]

could we see that? cause Zenon doesn't have teleporting on his page

Its not under bfr?

 

[Arkenis]

Its not under bfr?

nah.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

nah.

yeah that's it. he sent Yuno to another dimension in the scan I gave you. I'll Imgur it and add it to his page rq.

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

I'mma go carefully to Zenon's side here... he has his spatial magic domination, which should save him from a lot, and Arnoldstone18's argument is pretty solid

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

The BFR is not done via portal, it is done by literally teleporting her to another dimension. You can't instinctively dodge that because there is nothing to dodge. Just because she resisted space slashed apart does not mean she resists being teleported to another dimension, that requires resistance to BFR. On a side note, Zenon too should possess a layer above Naiz's spatial manipulation but he doesn't really need it to win thanks to power nullification Law and Conceptual manipulation are not even allowed in this tournament.

Can I get an example of him teleporting someone to another dimension without a portal? Because the most you showed was Zenon making a cube around Yuno and Yuno still was there in the same area as Zenon. Actually, she can instinctively feel that something will happen and move through space to another place (an scan of the first time on screen of Apostles moving through space)

Shia changed the Vire Doryukken into bombing mode and aimed at Freed…at that moment, the figure of herself getting slashed into pieces by countless large swords was reflected in her brain. It was a death prediction from her characteristic magic 'Future Sight'.

A chill rushed through her whole body instantly, her voice got caught in her throat while she twisted her body half-forcefully. From the superb timing of the attack's instant, it brought to Shia's intention that this was an attack that leaped through space――an attack that couldn't be dodged perfectly based on Shia's experience.

In an instant, the space around Shia was undulating, from there large swords were thrusting out in a flash.

They alternatively can also cover themselves in their disintegrating wings to disintegrate the magic that will affect her. Well, Naiz was able to teleport away an normal Apostle (the 7-B ones, not the Silver Apostles used here) but that's only if he can directly touch one, otherwise he seem to be unable to bfr an Apostle despite him be able to easily send others away from a distance without touching (at vol 1 just because Miledi was creepy he send her 100 kilometers away). I mean, the 6 layers was just the number I thought by think quickly without deep thought, later I will post the actual spatial scaling chain in depth, also since the spatial magic of Naiz come from ancient magic (which is law and conceptual manip) is naturally above average spatial manip since the mechanics are of a deeper/higher level (like how conceptual EE is above normal EE, or law manip based fate manip is above normal fate manip), so do to her resistance to spatial manip be based in resist ancient magic she should resist Zenon spatial manip (even without considering Naiz layers). Again, is not that she herself have law and concept manip, is that her resistances are enough to even resist spatial manip that are of law and conceptual levels (you can see in ancient magic users profiles that ancient magic manipulate abstract concepts, control the fundamentals that are above the world laws and can rewrite the laws of the universe and reality itself), she can also disintegrate ancient magic.

Noted. Zenon not only has resistance to disintegration by fighting CQC with Yuno who has passive matter disintegration, but he can immediately regenerate damages inflicted on him. Zenon is also completely unaffected by Langris' spatial magic in Devil form.

He still has resistance from fighting Yuno and he can simpy regenerate.

I mean, I could accept Zenon having deconstruction resistance from fighting Yuno but is Yuno disintegration even comparable to Apostles? It hava similar potency (both do to layers and feats). Like Apostles disintegration disintegrate both physical and immaterial things like magic:

The apostle had used the new special magic she’d received from her god, Disintegration. The spell annihilated anything it came into contact with, whether that something was physical or magical.

She swung her staff down at the apostle, and a combination of magical glowing chains and brown tree roots coiled around her. Of course, the apostle’s disintegration magic destroyed both the physical roots and the magical chains of light

Disintegrate spatial manip:

Naiz lowered Miledi into Meiru’s arms, and the dagon instantly started pouring restoration magic into her. While that was happening, Naiz teleported behind the apostle. He unsheathed his blade and wreathed it in spatial magic. Fueled by rage, he swung at the apostle’s neck. But just before his dimension-cutting scimitar reached its target—

“Ngh!?”

The apostle brought her wings up to protect herself. She suffused them with disintegration magic, offsetting the spatial barrier Naiz had applied to his sword.

She also showed to disintegrate non magical spatial manip, specifically the spatial manip of futuristic levels of technology like Mother.

Disintegrate time manip:

“I can’t allow myself to be outdone here— Transient Infinity-Tenfold!”

Meiru cast her ultimate spell, which kept restoring something into the state it was in a second before indefinitely, but layered it ten times. That way, it wouldn’t disappear even if Ahat used disintegration magic on Miledi.

...

Ahat’s sword came down on Miledi again, slicing through her shoulder. This time, her wounds didn’t heal. Ahat had finally sliced through all the layers of Meiru’s spell.

Disintegrate gravity:

Ahat was firing a continuous barrage of disintegration feathers at Miledi. Naturally, they all had homing properties. Moreover, they rushed at Miledi from all directions and angles.

Of course Miledi had both Spatial Severance and Heavensfall active constantly to keep the feathers at bay, but it wasn’t enough. The sheer number of feathers was enough to disintegrate her gravity magic. And as a result, she was forced to dodge by constantly braking, reversing her direction, and even rotating in place.

Each of this are layered ancient magics since the Liberators are the greatest users of their ancient magic.

And about the regen, don't Apostle simple counter that with the holy nature of her energy (actually existence in general but well)?

How can she disintegrate space? She is literally teleported away from the battlefield to a separate dimension. I doubt she can escape without ancient magic she does not possess. And you have not mentioned anything resistance to BFR feat. She does resist spatial attack spells so dainsleif is useless here. Its good she does not have law and CM.

So she can disintegrate Law Manipulation and CM?

I mean, honestly that image don't really show as if Yuno was send to another dimension, he is also inside the cube in every moment and when he stop of be surrounded by it he is in the same place as Zenon, so in principle if she disintegrate the cube I believe she would return to the zone, she also could escape by moving through space or even maybe by asking her lord Ehit to open a portal to her so she go to the Holy Precints and return to the battlefield (something wich she technically is able to do since Apostles not only are connected between themselves with their network but they also are connected to Ehit and he always see through them).

She can disintegrate things at that level of deepness yes.

I have no idea who these names are. I sorta hate arguing dark, especially on the topic of "layered resistances"

Anyway in black clover, magic power boost allows a mage to add layers to their resistances and negate the resistances of weaker mages. Therefore there are many layers of hax within the verse, especially soul (from Elf reincarnation, to Devil possessions). Zenon can resist mind manipulation of anyone above Neige's mind manipulation in Black Clover, Zenon's devil physiology also grants him an even extra layered mind manipulation resistance. As a high ranking devil he is superior to Mid and Low ranking devils' resistances. Even Leibe can resist mind manipulation and he is the lowest of the low-ranking devils. Too many Layers to count.

Lastly, what is the point of all this if you cant even use it? the argument of power nullification persists. Which I will get to right after my next response to your point on danmaku.

Yeah, I know, sorry for that, the point was to show that I wasn't stating a random number or things like that.

I mean, about the layers of resistance to mind manip literally every current profile have it since willpower in the verse grant resistances and haxs (which can go up to resist conceptual effects by pure willpower, same with develop new powers and resistances in a moment do to that), and between them Shia not only is one of the god tiers regarding willpower (she developed by pure will resistance against Ehit Divine Edict which is an ancient magic that is above every other form of spirit magic in the verse) but also have the extra protection from Soul Shell (an artifact enhanced with spirit magic which is ancient magic that control every immaterial thing from beings, do to this the level of mind resistance is directly connected to the level of soul resistance), so this mean that Shea resistance to mind manip was of law and conceptual level but even so Hearst (a Silver Apostle) was able to affect her with her charm for a moment, which put the potency of Silver Apostles mind manip really high.

Will comment about the power null part later.

Zenon's danmaku with bone magic isn't projectile based. his bones cover ground in massive numbers and they dont go anywhere which makes it almost impossible to dodge as more time passes due to limited space left by the bones.

Zenon in human form at 50% power was capable of doing this with bone magic. His bone magic can regenerate faster than Yuno's spirit dive could disintegrate them. Zenon finished him off at 55%. Zenon highest in this match-up is in devil form which puts his bone magic far above 100%. each percent holds far greater than the last so he is far above 55% at 100%. Zenon's danmaku's ability to cover ground, and limit the space, along with sheer numbers and extremely fast-paced regen to counter disintegration, makes this very high level, attack, and defense danmaku.

Actually:

“I see... So you snuck in here from underground. It’s an old trick, but no one ever pays attention to what’s beneath their feet. Still, I’m surprised no one noticed you, since you’d have to burrow for a dozen kilometers to reach this place from the plains... Oh, I see now. That’s why you had the army launch such a reckless assault.”

The valkyrie’s expression didn’t change, but her inhuman eyes seemed to be saying “indeed.” Miledi and the others had been too distracted by the fighting to notice her using her magic hundreds of meters underground. However, there was one thing that still didn’t make sense.

Lyutillis made a pained face as she looked at the debilitated sapling and muttered, “But the Grand Tree’s roots form an underground barrier around the capital. If any of those roots were damaged, I would have noticed right away.”

“Correct. Circumventing your alarm system was hardly an impossible task, but it did require a fair amount of effort.”

“Excuse me?”

The only way she could have evaded the Grand Tree’s detection was by weaving her way between the tree’s hundred thousand roots and using only the bare minimum amount of mana to dig. Such a feat was nigh impossible for even Lyutillis and her comrades, yet for the apostle, it had just been “a fair amount of effort.”

An Zero timeline normal Apostle could casually weave her way between the hundred thousands roots of the grand tree Uralt without touching them or be noticed, and using only the minimal amount of mana necessary to dig. The events of Zero happened several thousands of years before the events of the main story, which mean that current Apostles are far skill than in that scene do to have gathered various thousands of years more of data, do to have analysed and created counters to far more things that in that moment with their Apostle network. So yeah, she should be able to easily go through the bones danmaku.

The regeneration speed is actually an interesting point because in verse literally the only way to counter her disintegration is by fast enough haxs, for example to face their disintegration in their battle Hajime needed to counter with his transmutation (in his case it isn't simple transmutation but creation magic which is an ancient magic that is matter manipulation of every inorganic matter) to restore his weapons, but even then at best he only was capable of obtain a few moments even with his transmutation speed (since he is the best synergist of history he have a long scaling chain that put his transmutation speed above a lot of people (sorry for the scaling chain with unknow terms again): normal synergist < elite synergist < average Velka synergist < average synergist of the great three workshops < elite Velka synergist < Ruth < Velka best synergist < 10 years old Oscar < Karg Orcus < teenage Oscar < Vol 1 Oscar < vol 2 Oscar < beginning of synergyst battle Hajime < beginning of synergist battle Oscar < middle of synergist battle Hajime < middle of synergist battle Oscar < end of synergist battle Hajime < vol 6 Hajime, the scaling chain could be longer taking in consideration early vols Hajime synergist skills but this way the scaling chain is clearer, on top of fulfill the purpose of show the skill at manipulate matter of Hajime by his fight against an normal Apostle) so Zenon bones will have a really hard time trying to follow the disintegration if even Hajime with his fast matter manip was barely able to do so, even more so since Silver Apostles are above normal Apostles. The potency of the disintegration is probably also something to consider, and since in principle Apostles disintegration seem to be above Yuno disintegration, they appear to have advantage in that regard.

Lastly, even under the assumption that the bone danmaku end been to much (which I don't belive but still will take in consideration said scenary) do to their numbers and fast regen, she can simply counter with magic like ultimate level fire or ice spells since Zenon resistance to heat don't seem to be enough to resist the heat from ultimate level fire spells, similarly he can resist the absolute zero from something like Frost Prison.

Noted. Mages can also have up to 2 layers by default which are Mana skin which is created by pure magic power aura and Manazone which grants the user control over surrounding magic. Manazone is typically higher than Mana skin aura. Zenon does not have mana zone but he has mana skin because all mages have mana skin aura. Zenon also has shown 2 more ways of power nullification which are Absolute space, and a layer above this, Absolute Space: Spatial domination. Spatial mages naturally cancel each other out. Below is an example of spatial manipulation/power nullification resistance.

Yami and Jack nullified Elf Langris' Defense Zone > Langris keeps this spell he had in his Elf form = Elf Langris Defense Zone resistance (Finral cant completely cancel this out) > Finral's Archangel beat which nullifies spatial magic alone he can also cast the spell in his presence > Elf Langris presence > Elf Langris Archangel Crash > Langris Archangel Crash...

Yami and Jack were struggling at first till they used spatial manipulation to cancel it out

so i will only use those with spatial manipulation throughout this response so I can simultaneously show you the layers for spatial manipulation as well. His power nullification and spatial manipulation layers together should look like this:

Devil Zenon's Devil > Langris and Finral's combined resistance (together they are able to cast spells within Devil Zenon's range) > Devil Zenon's Spatial domination > Devil Zenon's Absolute Space (There is no way for Langris alone to fight Zenon at this point) > Devil Zenon's Mana skin aura > Langris Manazone's Power Nullification > 100% Devil power Zenon (Human) Bone magic > Langris' Manazone's resistance > 100% Devil power Zenon (Human) Absolute Space: Spatial Domination ( This version of absolute space completely annihilated Archangel Destruction which was used to counter the lesser version Absolute Space) > 100% Devil power Zenon (Human) Absolute Space > 50% Devil power Zenon (Human) Absolute Space: spatial domination > Langris' Archangel Destruction (Spatial mages can resist each other's power null, canceling them out; Langris used this spell to counter Absolute space) > 50% human Zenon's Absolute Space > Langris' Archangel Crash > 50% human Zenon's resistance (can cast spells in both Yuno and Langris' presence) > Langris power nullification cant cancel any of Zenon's magic.

It isn't limited to this because you have Langris developing his power nullification and resistances throughout several fights in the series. I gave an example above. And it ends there for spatial manipulation but not power nullification because Langris' Mana skin is more layered than fodder with basic mana skin, I didn't even factor Yuno at all, and 50% Vanica who is comparable to 50% Zenon has decaying world which is power null layered past Noelle's own layered power null past underwater sea temple's power null. Devil Zenon is layered above all of that. And Zenon's spatial manipulation should work against her.

Zenon has about 6 layers of spatial manipulation and power nullification which is basically overkill at this point if I continue.

Spatial domination is a Zone, not a Space Cube.

Furthermore. Those who are comparable outside of black clover still need to possess the same amount of layers that come with being comparable, Like I said, Characters in black clover gain higher resistances as they get stronger. This is why Zenon stated Yuno and Langris have to surpass him because they will gain further resistance to power nullification. Associating Black Clover verse mechanics to another verse that does not follow the same intricate system is an association fallacy. Just because all black clover mages improve their hax layers by getting stronger does not mean other verses gain layers. Her power nullification is limited on her page so you have to prove She matches those layers.

In Arifureta case there are also several layers of power nullification, the problem is that they come mainly do to spirit magic, Divine Edict and Soul Shell scaling chain, but the problem is that since Apostles lack souls we don't know how they would interact when facing an enemy powernull based in spirit magic like Divine Edict, so that only left a relatively low ammount of differents powernulls from which they scale, that particular scalin chain would be (normal sealstone < sealstones shackles < Reisen Gorge < atavist magic users resistance < demons high level sealstones < Miledi labyrinth < ancient magic users < demon king artifacts < vol 3 Vandre/Liberators resistance < Uralt roots < guardian rod wielder resistance < Lyutillis resistance < Uralt core roots), as show in the scaling chain and following scans:

The path to the Grand Tree’s core began in the throne room. But despite the rush they were in, Miledi and the others weren’t even able to reach it in one jump.

“Nnngh!?”

“Nacchan!?”

Looking up, Miledi saw the trunk of the Grand Tree rather than the throne she was expecting. They’d ended up at the base of the tree. Around her, beastmen were panicking because of what was happening to the tree.

Thinking he’d just slipped up, Naiz tried to teleport them again. However—

“I’m being blocked!”

“Ah... It’s probably the Grand Tree’s defense mechanism. I assume it’s repelling all external interference to protect itself.”

If the tree could repel even ancient magic, Miledi could see why Lyutillis had been so surprised that the apostle had made it past its defenses.

“This isn’t good... My powers are being severely restricted as well,” Lyutillis muttered.

She could influence the tree to some extent, but not deactivate its barriers.

The Grand Tree was continuing to sink, and its branches were still withering. Both of which meant its magic-repelling barrier was still in effect. Now that the apostle wasn’t actively attacking it, the tree had weakened its barrier somewhat, but Meiru would still need to use up almost all of her mana to break through its defenses and restore it to full strength

The grand tree Uralt is able to null ancient magic (law and concept manip), so in principle the potency of it is above the power null of black clover (since I at least don't know if they can null things as complex as that). But even with the potency of Uralt an normal Apostle could severly injure the core:

They were in a smallish, dome-shaped room. The walls were made of the same azantium-sealstone alloy as the previous room, but the roots coiling around them were far thicker. They were also as black as the metal around them. It appeared those roots had absorbed the azantium-sealstone alloy, becoming even more durable. However, many of those roots had been scorched, severed, or otherwise damaged. Normally, they only parted for the wielder of the Guardian Rod, so the apostle had needed to force her way through.

At the center of the room was the Grand Tree’s core. It was cocooned by a conflux of roots, and a faint light was leaking out from it. From the gaps in the roots, Miledi and the others could see the core itself was a small sapling. Based on how weakly it was glowing, it was obviously severely injured. By blocking out all magic it had managed to erect a final fortress and protect itself from death, but only just.

So her magic is above in potency.

You also didn't answered the part about if Zenon can null biological abilities or things of at least molecular level (like special magic from fodder monsters), or possibly of a deeper level (since Ehit give her power through creation and/or metamorphosis magic). There is also the question if he can manipulate/negate the infinite mana pool of an Apostle.

About the Limited part of the resistance that's just because two things, 1) characters with this type of resistance have the problem of consume more mana with their spells when facing one of this nullying effects, something that don't really matter in the Apostles case since they don't care about how much mana the use because they have an infinite ammount of it. 2) Honestly the main reason of why it say limited after the recent crts is just to differentiate it from the Soul Shell based type power null resistance, and I say this as the person who did the crts adding both types of resistances.

About Naiz spatial scaling chain, though it probably don't matter do to the nature of ancient magic that put him above Zenon spatial manip in potency, here is the full chain after deep thought: atavist spatial users < atavist templar knights spatial users < holy templar knight spatial users < teenage Naiz < vol 5 Hajime < vol 5 Yue < vol 5 Freid < vol 7 Hajime < vol 6 Yue < post Halitna Hajime (who enhance his spatial manip with information manip) < vol 1 Naiz < post Haltina Yue < vol 4 Naiz). The scan of spatial resistance of Apostles come from facing vol 1 Naiz but in one of the scans above show a bit from her encounter against vol 4 Naiz and can be see how he Apostles still are above him.

Can she move her weapons through those walls of bones with her mind, while busy fighting off other bones spawning from nowhere to further attack her? I think she will be overwhelmed and I don't think her telekinesis would work in Spatial domination without proper resistance. So impaling her and preventing her from moving while simultaneously throwing more bones at her till she's dead.

I mean, Apostles are basically robots with high calculation power (not as high as a super AI of Mother level, but still high enough) so yes, they should be able to face simultaneously various things, she also have the skill level and feats to do that so there is no problem for them.

I believe she can use her powers without actual problem do to the things above.

This is how the fight will go.

Devil Zenon starts by removing her from the battle field, that is one wincon as she has no BFR resistance feat. his magic aura power nullification is passive but he will still use spatial domination to nullify her arsenal and pevent her from casting any spell. Zenon will try his absolute best to refrain from close quarters combat by spamming so many bones to block her path, and immobilize her. These bones resist disintegration and regenerate faster than they disintegrate in the event that they do disintegrate. If he forced to go CQC he spams bones to hold her down for a finishing strike. If Naiz's spatial slashes are layered past Zenon's then Zenon wont use it as a third win con.

Zenon's stat amps from rage power, devil magic, reinforcement magic, and passive mana absorption should overwhelm her in speed and power.

The result of the match will be her in a dimension or her being immobiized and overwhelmed with DDanmaku or her simply being overwhelmed in speed and power from various amps.

So what do you say?

going to rest a bit.

Already posted the counter points above about the BFR. Same with the power null. Like the other points I addressed the bones resistance probably isn't enough and I also doubt they could regen fast enough against her when even a vol 6 Hajime had problems to barely do that. If she actually close the distance he is finished, like, there really don't are anything he could do against her if she is close, just by staying at distance is that he could have a chance and the fact that she actually have the range advantage isn't good for him (actually, now that I see his range he can't bfr her immediately when the match begin and would need to close the distance to do so).

Though Limit Break is Apostles biggest amp they could also use other reinforcement magic so they could lessen the gap that way, they literally don't care about mana absorption (can he even absorp their mana? Since it's holy do to come from Ehit I don't know if he can). Speed wise Arifureta characters tend to be able to fight faster enemies do to skill and instincts (with people fighting comparable dudes who get big amps like 3x, 5x or more, and, at least based on the wiki profiles, people who do to skill can fight against opponents tiers above in speed), so that along with the high calculation power of an Apostle should handle the speed difference, the AP difference don't really matter do to the ignore dura attacks.


God, is really late and this took too much time to write so I feel like dying.

 

[Arkenis]

Can I get an example of him teleporting someone to another dimension without a portal? Because the most you showed was Zenon making a cube around Yuno and Yuno still was there in the same area as Zenon. Actually, she can instinctively feel that something will happen and move through space to another place (an scan of the first time on screen of Apostles moving through space)

They alternatively can also cover themselves in their disintegrating wings to disintegrate the magic that will affect her. Well, Naiz was able to teleport away an normal Apostle (the 7-B ones, not the Silver Apostles used here) but that's only if he can directly touch one, otherwise he seem to be unable to bfr an Apostle despite him be able to easily send others away from a distance without touching (at vol 1 just because Miledi was creepy he send her 100 kilometers away). I mean, the 6 layers was just the number I thought by think quickly without deep thought, later I will post the actual spatial scaling chain in depth, also since the spatial magic of Naiz come from ancient magic (which is law and conceptual manip) is naturally above average spatial manip since the mechanics are of a deeper/higher level (like how conceptual EE is above normal EE, or law manip based fate manip is above normal fate manip), so do to her resistance to spatial manip be based in resist ancient magic she should resist Zenon spatial manip (even without considering Naiz layers). Again, is not that she herself have law and concept manip, is that her resistances are enough to even resist spatial manip that are of law and conceptual levels (you can see in ancient magic users profiles that ancient magic manipulate abstract concepts, control the fundamentals that are above the world laws and can rewrite the laws of the universe and reality itself), she can also disintegrate ancient magic.

I mean, I could accept Zenon having deconstruction resistance from fighting Yuno but is Yuno disintegration even comparable to Apostles? It hava similar potency (both do to layers and feats). Like Apostles disintegration disintegrate both physical and immaterial things like magic:


Disintegrate spatial manip:

She also showed to disintegrate non magical spatial manip, specifically the spatial manip of futuristic levels of technology like Mother.

Disintegrate time manip:

Disintegrate gravity:

Each of this are layered ancient magics since the Liberators are the greatest users of their ancient magic.

And about the regen, don't Apostle simple counter that with the holy nature of her energy (actually existence in general but well)?

I mean, honestly that image don't really show as if Yuno was send to another dimension, he is also inside the cube in every moment and when he stop of be surrounded by it he is in the same place as Zenon, so in principle if she disintegrate the cube I believe she would return to the zone, she also could escape by moving through space or even maybe by asking her lord Ehit to open a portal to her so she go to the Holy Precints and return to the battlefield (something wich she technically is able to do since Apostles not only are connected between themselves with their network but they also are connected to Ehit and he always see through them).

She can disintegrate things at that level of deepness yes.

Yeah, I know, sorry for that, the point was to show that I wasn't stating a random number or things like that.

I mean, about the layers of resistance to mind manip literally every current profile have it since willpower in the verse grant resistances and haxs (which can go up to resist conceptual effects by pure willpower, same with develop new powers and resistances in a moment do to that), and between them Shia not only is one of the god tiers regarding willpower (she developed by pure will resistance against Ehit Divine Edict which is an ancient magic that is above every other form of spirit magic in the verse) but also have the extra protection from Soul Shell (an artifact enhanced with spirit magic which is ancient magic that control every immaterial thing from beings, do to this the level of mind resistance is directly connected to the level of soul resistance), so this mean that Shea resistance to mind manip was of law and conceptual level but even so Hearst (a Silver Apostle) was able to affect her with her charm for a moment, which put the potency of Silver Apostles mind manip really high.

Will comment about the power null part later.

Actually:

An Zero timeline normal Apostle could casually weave her way between the hundred thousands roots of the grand tree Uralt without touching them or be noticed, and using only the minimal amount of mana necessary to dig. The events of Zero happened several thousands of years before the events of the main story, which mean that current Apostles are far skill than in that scene do to have gathered various thousands of years more of data, do to have analysed and created counters to far more things that in that moment with their Apostle network. So yeah, she should be able to easily go through the bones danmaku.

The regeneration speed is actually an interesting point because in verse literally the only way to counter her disintegration is by fast enough haxs, for example to face their disintegration in their battle Hajime needed to counter with his transmutation (in his case it isn't simple transmutation but creation magic which is an ancient magic that is matter manipulation of every inorganic matter) to restore his weapons, but even then at best he only was capable of obtain a few moments even with his transmutation speed (since he is the best synergist of history he have a long scaling chain that put his transmutation speed above a lot of people (sorry for the scaling chain with unknow terms again): normal synergist < elite synergist < average Velka synergist < average synergist of the great three workshops < elite Velka synergist < Ruth < Velka best synergist < 10 years old Oscar < Karg Orcus < teenage Oscar < Vol 1 Oscar < vol 2 Oscar < beginning of synergyst battle Hajime < beginning of synergist battle Oscar < middle of synergist battle Hajime < middle of synergist battle Oscar < end of synergist battle Hajime < vol 6 Hajime, the scaling chain could be longer taking in consideration early vols Hajime synergist skills but this way the scaling chain is clearer, on top of fulfill the purpose of show the skill at manipulate matter of Hajime by his fight against an normal Apostle) so Zenon bones will have a really hard time trying to follow the disintegration if even Hajime with his fast matter manip was barely able to do so, even more so since Silver Apostles are above normal Apostles. The potency of the disintegration is probably also something to consider, and since in principle Apostles disintegration seem to be above Yuno disintegration, they appear to have advantage in that regard.

Lastly, even under the assumption that the bone danmaku end been to much (which I don't belive but still will take in consideration said scenary) do to their numbers and fast regen, she can simply counter with magic like ultimate level fire or ice spells since Zenon resistance to heat don't seem to be enough to resist the heat from ultimate level fire spells, similarly he can resist the absolute zero from something like Frost Prison.

In Arifureta case there are also several layers of power nullification, the problem is that they come mainly do to spirit magic, Divine Edict and Soul Shell scaling chain, but the problem is that since Apostles lack souls we don't know how they would interact when facing an enemy powernull based in spirit magic like Divine Edict, so that only left a relatively low ammount of differents powernulls from which they scale, that particular scalin chain would be (normal sealstone < sealstones shackles < Reisen Gorge < atavist magic users resistance < demons high level sealstones < Miledi labyrinth < ancient magic users < demon king artifacts < vol 3 Vandre/Liberators resistance < Uralt roots < guardian rod wielder resistance < Lyutillis resistance < Uralt core roots), as show in the scaling chain and following scans:


The grand tree Uralt is able to null ancient magic (law and concept manip), so in principle the potency of it is above the power null of black clover (since I at least don't know if they can null things as complex as that). But even with the potency of Uralt an normal Apostle could severly injure the core:

So her magic is above in potency.

You also didn't answered the part about if Zenon can null biological abilities or things of at least molecular level (like special magic from fodder monsters), or possibly of a deeper level (since Ehit give her power through creation and/or metamorphosis magic). There is also the question if he can manipulate/negate the infinite mana pool of an Apostle.

About the Limited part of the resistance that's just because two things, 1) characters with this type of resistance have the problem of consume more mana with their spells when facing one of this nullying effects, something that don't really matter in the Apostles case since they don't care about how much mana the use because they have an infinite ammount of it. 2) Honestly the main reason of why it say limited after the recent crts is just to differentiate it from the Soul Shell based type power null resistance, and I say this as the person who did the crts adding both types of resistances.

About Naiz spatial scaling chain, though it probably don't matter do to the nature of ancient magic that put him above Zenon spatial manip in potency, here is the full chain after deep thought: atavist spatial users < atavist templar knights spatial users < holy templar knight spatial users < teenage Naiz < vol 5 Hajime < vol 5 Yue < vol 5 Freid < vol 7 Hajime < vol 6 Yue < post Halitna Hajime (who enhance his spatial manip with information manip) < vol 1 Naiz < post Haltina Yue < vol 4 Naiz). The scan of spatial resistance of Apostles come from facing vol 1 Naiz but in one of the scans above show a bit from her encounter against vol 4 Naiz and can be see how he Apostles still are above him.

I mean, Apostles are basically robots with high calculation power (not as high as a super AI of Mother level, but still high enough) so yes, they should be able to face simultaneously various things, she also have the skill level and feats to do that so there is no problem for them.

I believe she can use her powers without actual problem do to the things above.

Already posted the counter points above about the BFR. Same with the power null. Like the other points I addressed the bones resistance probably isn't enough and I also doubt they could regen fast enough against her when even a vol 6 Hajime had problems to barely do that. If she actually close the distance he is finished, like, there really don't are anything he could do against her if she is close, just by staying at distance is that he could have a chance and the fact that she actually have the range advantage isn't good for him (actually, now that I see his range he can't bfr her immediately when the match begin and would need to close the distance to do so).

Though Limit Break is Apostles biggest amp they could also use other reinforcement magic so they could lessen the gap that way, they literally don't care about mana absorption (can he even absorp their mana? Since it's holy do to come from Ehit I don't know if he can). Speed wise Arifureta characters tend to be able to fight faster enemies do to skill and instincts (with people fighting comparable dudes who get big amps like 3x, 5x or more, and, at least based on the wiki profiles, people who do to skill can fight against opponents tiers above in speed), so that along with the high calculation power of an Apostle should handle the speed difference, the AP difference don't really matter do to the ignore dura attacks.


God, is really late and this took too much time to write so I feel like dying.

Ngl Zenon not beating this wall of text

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I'm going to cry.

But I'm not done yet.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

It got long partially do to post some scans as text (though they are short paragraphs but well) do to not have screenshots of them that could share, it could have gotten much longer if I actually posted the scans of everything I said with would be too much, so I only posted those that I thought more necessary to the point I was making in a certain moment.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

It got long partially do to post some scans as text (though they are short paragraphs but well) do to not have screenshots of them that could share, it could have gotten much longer if I actually posted the scans of everything I said with would be too much, so I only posted those that I thought more necessary to the point I was making in a certain moment.

No worries

Currently drafting an essay to respond. Quite fun ngl.

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

oh lord, arnoldstone finna use 100% of their power