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Anti-Monitor Downgrade

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Matthew_Schroeder said:
This is pure bias. Anti-Monitor affected infinite universes and could destroy all of them in one shot at the end of the crisis. He will not be downgraded.
Click to expand...
The Anti-Monitor clearly shows that his destroying world feat isn't his own power, since he used his experiment by turning anti-matter energy into energy to destroy the universe and then taking that energy to destroy more. Which means he can't destroy universes, his own.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RsTsdo_GrPk/VKTl89OKKaI/AAAAAAAHGqU/6f1kYnGRtHs/s1600/p10_19+copy.jpg


Here The Anti-Monitor absorbs the energy of the universe to sustain his power

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-lNSISDUiSnQ/VKTmCtFrhdI/AAAAAAAHGqo/5iIxpAg9kqw/s1600/p10_20+copy.jpg

Here the Anti-Monitor needs a massive machine which uses anti-matter to destroy the positive universes, since they cancel each other out.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fuqMMx6Gkhc/VKTqUI1dYXI/AAAAAAAHHKY/wBIzLSORMyY/s1600/p8_14+copy.jpg

Here is another example where the Anti-Monitor uses anti-matter to destroy positive universes

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/--BFyt8N9sSw/VKTqaCQ_58I/AAAAAAAHHLk/qpt0vX0CUZk/s1600/p8_24+copy.jpg

Here the Anti-Monitor relies on anti-matter to get stronger. Thus, it isn't his own base power nor his own destructive power, since again anti-matter and positive matter cancel each other out.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wneimo_BQI4/VKTp7cmBoAI/AAAAAAAHHF8/O5URs24u8wM/s1600/p7_16+copy.jpg

Here you can see the Anti-Monitor destroying the multiverse over time one universe by one on the panel. You clearly see the other universe is not effected, he can't one shot the multiverse. Also he is doing that by using anti-matter to cancel positive matter

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3TfAiNNxm4c/VKTpgrK0swI/AAAAAAAHHBs/MTkpapCPQf8/s1600/p5_24+copy.jpg

Here is more evidence that he can't one shot a multiverse, since he is referring to remaining universes. Thus he needs time to accomplish the destruction of the entire multiverse.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-d1qwbBGRUOY/VKTqXHy6oEI/AAAAAAAHHLA/6eniF_0RPCQ/s1600/p8_2+copy.jpg

Here you can see several universes intact disproving he can one shot a multiverse and proving he destroys a multiverse overtime and supposedly being "2-A"

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ykxq_dOUJvk/VKTqcS--i8I/AAAAAAAHHMI/jstRZPuIRQI/s1600/p8_6+copy.jpg

Here the Spectre is helpless to stop a universal disruption and he is in desperation and screams in frustration, because he can't do anything about it.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PQi4wOdw4DM/VKTqaaLF-8I/AAAAAAAHHL8/xQyyStqJZkM/s1600/p8_25+copy.jpg

It is clear that the Anti-Monitor can't destroy universes on his own, neither can't he one shot a multiverse, but needs clearly time to do so. He also relies on the fact that anti-matter and positive matter cancel each out and thus causing a destruction.

@Deagonx Do you have anything to add?
 
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Alright, let's get into the first fact that guys like Dr. Fate, Spectre, Superman, and plenty of other characters can outright destroy or survive universal or more levels of destruction from the get go, and all of them saw the Anti-Monitor as the greatest threat they'd ever face. Dr. Fate and other sorcerers needed to power themselves up to even stand a chance against the AM near the end of the Crisis, and he resoundingly destroyed someone like Supergirl when he got a good shot in, even though Supergirl arguably scales toe to toe with Superman, who when the Anti-Monitor wasn't dazed was able to beat the shit out of quite easily. Supergirl had to throw her entire being against him and she still only destroyed his armor. Same Supergirl and Superman scale to 2-C to potentially 2-B/2-A feats. And that was the AM at near his weakest point

ALSO, we have scans, as mentioned before that directly, show him being equal to power to The Monitor, who is so connected to the Multiverse that he gains power from all of them simultaneously, and was severely weakened when each one was destroyed. A guy whose power is directly connected to the multiverse itself, to a point of gaining infinite power from infinite universes at his peak when he battled AM to a standstill for literal eons, is at BARE minimum 2-B, but ultimately 2-A to anyone reasonable.

Even at the most unreasonable measurement and downplay, AM at his peak is not sub Universe level and you'd need to restructure the entirety of DC to even begin to downplay him to that length.
 
lets make this easy

can he destroy a multiverse?

yes: then he gets 2-A

No: then he dont get tier 2

and as far as i remember the answer is a resounding yes
 
Ned_the_outer_god said:
Pretty sure Anti Monitor was quite literally stated as a universe destroyer here
main-qimg-190c7bfd4b935e4a00935b882575ac95

This is show in CoIE that he can straight up nuke universes, so this statement isn't that far off
Click to expand...
Yes, he is only through absorbing anti-matter and using it against the positive matter to cause a universal destruction.
 
Ah Ah, not listening to your opinion because you are blatantly wrong. So, time to unfollow because nobody really gives a crap about your """"Logical"""" thread
 
San-Kakarot said:
Yes, he is only through absorbing anti-matter and using it against the positive matter to cause a universal destruction.
Click to expand...
You know to cause universal destruction via universal whatever, you need to have a universal amount of energy right... which AP is...
 
KingTempest said:
You know to cause universal destruction via universal whatever, you need to have a universal amount of energy right... which AP is...
Click to expand...
That isn't how it works. He absorbs the energy of the universe. Thus, it isn't his own power and he uses that power against positive matter which cancel each other, since the energy absorbed is universal in scale.
 
San-Kakarot said:
That isn't how it works. He absorbs the energy of the universe. Thus, it isn't his own power and he uses that power against positive matter which cancel each other, since the energy absorbed is universal in scale.
Click to expand...
If it's universal in scale.
And he absorbs it all.
Then it works for him.

Correct?
 
There's also a scan, ON HIS PAGE, that outright says all worlds are attacked at all times. It's a literal multiversal event that is only postponed by the Monitor, a being who fought the AM to a standstill WHEN he had an infinite amount of positive matter from infinite universes all within him.

And he isn't just hollowing out the universes, he's outright destroying them in their entirety. Time and space included.
 
Tllmbrg said:
No, Anti Monitor literally has one of the most clear cut 2-A feats in fiction
Said feat is the most iconic moment of the charcter and in general one of the most iconic DC moments, to try and downgrade it is just laugable
Click to expand...
Anti-Monitor is far from 2-A. Let alone having the most clear cut "2-A", since there are actual 2-A feats from characters.
 
What is there to say?

Everybody here counter your points just by listing the damn title of the story. Like San I get that you don’t agree with the current DC rating, but making two downgrades isn’t going to convince people.

AM is literally a 2-A character there is no discussion about this, I know because is bought the damn comic and read through it.
 
Jared1111 said:
There's also a scan, ON HIS PAGE, that outright says all worlds are attacked at all times. It's a literal multiversal event that is only postponed by the Monitor, a being who fought the AM to a standstill WHEN he had an infinite amount of positive matter of infinite universes all within him.

And he isn't just hollowing out the universes, he's outright destroying them in their entirety. Time and space included.
Click to expand...
It's literally clear from the context that it is talking about everything is effected by his tyranny, not that the worlds are destroyed in one shot it's the inevitable fact that they can't escape his destruction. Nothing suggests a multiversal destruction.
 
San-Kakarot said:
It's literally clear from the context that it is talking about everything is effected by his tyranny, not that the worlds are destroyed in one shitm it's the nevitably fact that they can't escape his destruction. Nothing suggests a multiversal destruction.
Click to expand...
Proof
 
ALSO i just realized this, even if you somehow don't believe the AM was 2-A throughout the story, he absolutely was 2-A at the end of the story after absorbing his Anti-Matter Universes as that had absorbed all of the other Positive Matter Universes into it.

So even if you want to downgrade his previous self, he at the very minimum was 2-A at the end of COIE. He even mentions that he's going to destroy the Positive Multiverse right before the Spectre fights him.
 
NotoriouSoda said:
What is there to say?

Everybody here counter your points just by listing the damn title of the story. Like San I get that you don’t agree with the current DC rating, but making two downgrades isn’t going to convince people.

AM is literally a 2-A character there is no discussion about this, I know because is bought the damn comic and read through it.
Click to expand...
Not a single point of my was countered or addressed. Look most of them where "no", "nah" or making statements that has been already refuted. The Anti-Monitor isn't 2-A and never was in this run.
 
Jared1111 said:
ALSO i just realized this, even if you somehow don't believe the AM was 2-A throughout the story, he absolutely was 2-A at the end of the story after absorbing his Anti-Matter Universes as that had absorbed all of the other Positive Matter Universes into it.

So even if you want to downgrade his previous self, he at the very minimum was 2-A at the end of COIE. He even mentions that he's going to destroy the Positive Multiverse right before the Spectre fights him.
Click to expand...
Give me the scan where he destroyed the multiverse in one shot or where he absorbed infinite universes.
 
San-Kakarot said:
It's literally clear from the context that it is talking about everything is effected by his tyranny, not that the worlds are destroyed in one shot it's the inevitable fact that they can't escape his destruction. Nothing suggests a multiversal destruction.
Click to expand...
N...nothing suggests a Multiversal Destruction.

In the event

In which

An Infinite Multiverse

Was destroyed.

(Also destroying all Universes but 5 in an infinite mulitverse... is still 2-A, because infinite universes are still infinite universes - minus 5)
 
Jared1111 said:
N...nothing suggests a Multiversal Destruction.

In the event

In which

An Infinite Multiverse

Was destroyed.

(Also destroying all Universes but 5 in an infinite mulitverse... is still 2-A, because infinite universes are still infinite universes - minus 5)
Click to expand...
You have ignored that it is overtime and not in one shot and that it is neither his own power. Yes, the Anti-Monitor destroyed the multiverse overtime look at my response to @Matthew_Schroeder see all the instance s. Why do ignore that fact?
 
Matthew_Schroeder said:
Also saying that because Anti-Monitor destroys universes with anti-matter his feat isn't actually universal is so insane. It's like saying his punches don't count as physical feats. The dude is MADE of anti-matter there's no ******* way.
Click to expand...
Anti-Monitor being made of anti-matter does not debunk the fact that he destroys universes.

Also yes, Anti-Monitor grows stronger with each universe he destroys but he has a 2-A feat in the beginning of COIE and another at the end.
 
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